In Which The Masses Answer Magolor04726's Questions About Smash

Toadgamer

Marioboards' biggest (maybe only) bup connoisseur
i wanted paper mario for quite some time, but the origami king spirits make it less likely.

there are quite a bit of characters i want who are already in the game in some way, there's shovel knight, which is the only assist trophy i wanna see playable, bandana dee, toad (shocking i know), tails and rayman.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
It's a thing I like reading about, but that's about it. I don't actually like participating in it and I try not to let tier placements affect how I view characters.
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
I really hate how many misconceptions there are surrounding tier lists. No, the character who can pull off the most high level game exploits in competitive Smash is not the character you'll see dominating any matches you play. And there's a simple reason for that: tier doesn't affect casual play. At all. I hate how the tier list has been manipulated to make someone feel good about their main while trashing on the low tier characters like, say, Kirby. Oh, I'm certain I could beat your Inkling with my Kirby! Skill is all there is. Not tier. That list of numbers is irrelevant in anything but the highest levels of competitive Smash.

...Wait, did you say Brawl Meta Knight? Uhhh...fine. There's your exception, folks.
 

PAC-MAN (Club Mix)

I'm high on crack! Wanna freebie?
I really hate how many misconceptions there are surrounding tier lists. No, the character who can pull off the most high level game exploits in competitive Smash is not the character you'll see dominating any matches you play. And there's a simple reason for that: tier doesn't affect casual play. At all. I hate how the tier list has been manipulated to make someone feel good about their main while trashing on the low tier characters like, say, Kirby. Oh, I'm certain I could beat your Inkling with my Kirby! Skill is all there is. Not tier. That list of numbers is irrelevant in anything but the highest levels of competitive Smash.

...Wait, did you say Brawl Meta Knight? Uhhh...fine. There's your exception, folks.
I’m not sure quite sure what you’re angry about here. “tiers don’t affect casual play” is true and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you about that, so what’s the issue here?

Good job devaluing the entire of competitive Smash by acting like it’s only about “high level game exploits” when those rarely actually get used (outside of wavedash in Melee (one game) which isn’t even that “high level”) and instead competitive Smash is focused around how well people understand and can play the game, just like literally every other fighting game in existence. Let’s do a quick quiz:

If a player wins a Competitive Smash Match, is it because:
A. They know how to abuse “high level game exploits”.
B. They’re just really good at the game.
C. Even if they use these “high level game exploits”, that doesn't mean they take a lot of skill to learn, and correctly use during a match
D. All of the above.

The answer is B, but C is still a valid point, even if not an actual answer to the question. If you practised hard enough with Kirby (who I presume is your main), you could win a local without having to use these "exploits", because they're not what's important to winning.

The Tier List hasn't been manipulated to make players feel bad for maining low tiers? If you take issue with the fact that you're main is frequently ranked as a low tier, then that's a you issue, not a tier list issue. There is nothing on the tier list that says "you should feel bad for maining someone in this tier".

Out of curiosity, do you have a friend or something that acts like the person in your post does, and you've decided to take your frustration on them out on tier lists? Just a thought I had. I'm probably completely wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting from this post.

Anyway my opinion on Competitive Smash is that it's cool to see people treating Smash like what it is, a fighting game. After having played a few Free-For-Alls recently, it's nice that people have taken time to test out and then implement a ruleset that focuses on skill. I don't think Smash would have lasted as long as it has, nor become as popular, if it didn't have a competitive scene, just look at Melee, almost 20 years later and that game is still heavily played by many people. Competitive breaths new life into the game, and I'm thankful for it's existence because I don't think I'd enjoy the game as much without it.
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
I’m not sure quite sure what you’re angry about here. “tiers don’t affect casual play” is true and I don’t think anyone would disagree with you about that, so what’s the issue here?

Good job devaluing the entire of competitive Smash by acting like it’s only about “high level game exploits” when those rarely actually get used (outside of wavedash in Melee (one game) which isn’t even that “high level”) and instead competitive Smash is focused around how well people understand and can play the game, just like literally every other fighting game in existence. Let’s do a quick quiz:

If a player wins a Competitive Smash Match, is it because:
A. They know how to abuse “high level game exploits”.
B. They’re just really good at the game.
C. Even if they use these “high level game exploits”, that doesn't mean they take a lot of skill to learn, and correctly use during a match
D. All of the above.

The answer is B, but C is still a valid point, even if not an actual answer to the question. If you practised hard enough with Kirby (who I presume is your main), you could win a local without having to use these "exploits", because they're not what's important to winning.

The Tier List hasn't been manipulated to make players feel bad for maining low tiers? If you take issue with the fact that you're main is frequently ranked as a low tier, then that's a you issue, not a tier list issue. There is nothing on the tier list that says "you should feel bad for maining someone in this tier".

Out of curiosity, do you have a friend or something that acts like the person in your post does, and you've decided to take your frustration on them out on tier lists? Just a thought I had. I'm probably completely wrong, but that's the vibe I'm getting from this post.

Anyway my opinion on Competitive Smash is that it's cool to see people treating Smash like what it is, a fighting game. After having played a few Free-For-Alls recently, it's nice that people have taken time to test out and then implement a ruleset that focuses on skill. I don't think Smash would have lasted as long as it has, nor become as popular, if it didn't have a competitive scene, just look at Melee, almost 20 years later and that game is still heavily played by many people. Competitive breaths new life into the game, and I'm thankful for it's existence because I don't think I'd enjoy the game as much without it.
My point is simply that the tier list has far too much presence in the Smash community. You'd be surprised how many people there are that take it as objective fact, even in settings that are far from competitive. And "high-level exploits" was not a slight against competitive Smash at all; while I don't play competitively and don't think I'd enjoy it, I respect those who do and I was just emphasizing how different a playstyle it was. And even in competitive smash, the "I've gotta find the strongest character" mentality seems to be put before "I've gotta sharpen my skills". It's for that reason that I don't believe tier lists should be so prominent--not because tier lists are false, because they're not, but because they provide too much emphasis on the character balance as opposed to personal skill. (Not saying that tier lists cause that, because it would still exist even without tier lists, but tier lists play a part in promoting that)

(And, well, should clarify that Kirby's technically my secondary main, after Dedede. At least the king gets a little more respect...)
 

Toadgamer

Marioboards' biggest (maybe only) bup connoisseur
im not the best at smash, but i'm interested in competitive smash. i'm subscribed to a few smash youtubers and im part of some competitive smash discord servers. i don't feel like analyzing the characters like competitive players usually do, but i watch a few guide videos and kinda study hitboxes and all that. because of that, i have decent skill even if ultimate is my first smash game, and i can for example defeat a level 9 cpu easily. i wish i could get better at the game tho. i play the game a lot and only have like, 400 hours of playtime (even if its the game i have that has the most playtime but still)
 
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