Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

Fawfulthegreat64 said:
I agree about Sticker Star being a reboot. The evidence towards that is a big reason why I hate that game so much. The series didn't need a reboot, and no returning to TTYD's battle system wouldn't have been a reboot. The thing is though, it seems like Nintendo, as far as Paper Mario is concerned, only considers the rebooted series 'canon' or whatever their equivalent to that is. I like to see it the other way around, they turned the series into something that it was never meant to be and thus I consider the first 3 games canon and the later ones boring knockoffs of them. There are some parallels with PM64/Sticker Star and TTYD/Color Splash, with Bowser having some wish granting power and traveling to an area by boat and solving a mystery respectively. I shudder to think of the next one being a *bleep*ized SPM.
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I don't think Nintendo only considers the reboot canon, so much as doesn't care too much to reference the series. Smash even dedicated the second segment of the Paper Mario stage to the second game with a reference to the first despite Sticker Star having a boat that they could have used instead. I think the block in the Hooniversity in the remake is still based on the original Paper Mario. Paper Jam is the only outlier in that regard and that came about less as an idea for a crossover and more AlphaDream wanting to add a third character to the mix.
 
Princess Mario said:
I find the characterization of Sticker Star as a reboot (from radical gameplay changes to barren story as well as a sequel that built on those changes) interesting though I think any sort of canon argument that comes along with it is irrelevant. I mean, it makes sense to an extent. It would explain stuff like why the way the world works is totally different (characters are more self-aware
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Both Paper Mario One and Thousand Year Door either hint to the characters being paper or break the fourth wall (PM1's intro, Crump telling the player not to spoil his plan to infiltrate Flavio's crew).

and why Kammy is totally gone/Kamek is suddenly around.
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Kammy was a Kamek surrogate to begin with and frankly it's odd they didn't use him to begin with. And besides, it's not any different from Toadsworth getting introduced in Sunshine only to later disappear from the platformers.

I know that "canon" in Mario isn't really a thing but Paper Mario had some consistent elements that are gone as of Sticker Star.
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There's nothing stopping Sticker Star up from being in the same world as the earlier PM games. It even mentions characters from them like Goombella.
 
Qayin said:
Both Paper Mario One and Thousand Year Door either hint to the characters being paper or break the fourth wall (PM1's intro, Crump telling the player not to spoil his plan to infiltrate Flavio's crew).
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Those are quick one-off jokes. There's not really anything like the Shy-Guys tearing up the ground behind you, the collectibles being stickers or Bowser turning into a giant made of cardboard.

Kammy was a Kamek surrogate to begin with and frankly it's odd they didn't use him to begin with. And besides, it's not any different from Toadsworth getting introduced in Sunshine only to later disappear from the platformers.
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I can see why they did use Kammy: They wanted to use normal magikoopas and Kamek doesn't have anything to stand out (closest would be his broom and the magikoopas in certain Mario games also have brooms) so they made a more distinct magikoopa.
Toadsworth doesn't really play much of a role in the games so him sticking around is much less of a priority than Kamek/Kammy who usually functions as Bowser's second-in-command.

There's nothing stopping Sticker Star up from being in the same world as the earlier PM games. It even mentions characters from them like Goombella.
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As I said, the paper references were previously one-off jokes (especially in the first game where there were barely any) and don't really factor into the story. I also recall hearing that those mentions are only in the American version of the game and even then it's an out-of the way easter egg compared to the rest of the game which is totally different.
 
ThatGuy62 said:
Those are quick one-off jokes. There's not really anything like the Shy-Guys tearing up the ground behind you, the collectibles being stickers or Bowser turning into a giant made of cardboard.
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The narrator for PM1 even asks how Kammy got there. And PM1 had plenty of paper moments (Mario and Goombario falling off a cliff over to take no damage since they're paper, King Goomba's fort being a cheap prop, the Trojan Bowser). If anything, it was Thousand Year Door that tried to move away from the "Mario In A Paper World" depiction with the curses.

I can see why they did use Kammy: They wanted to use normal magikoopas and Kamek doesn't have anything to stand out (closest would be his broom and the magikoopas in certain Mario games also have brooms) so they made a more distinct magikoopa.
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They could have just redesigned him to stand out more ala Super Princess Peach.

Toadsworth doesn't really play much of a role in the games so him sticking around is much less of a priority than Kamek/Kammy who usually functions as Bowser's second-in-command.
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Bowser has had plenty of games without an obvious right-hand man. And even when he has one from Sunshine onward he's had Bowser Jr. over Kamek or Kammy.

As I said, the paper references were previously one-off jokes (especially in the first game where there were barely any) and don't really factor into the story. I also recall hearing that those mentions are only in the American version of the game and even then it's an out-of the way easter egg compared to the rest of the game which is totally different.
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I haven't heard anything about all the mentions being Western only. And Sticker Star isn't all that out-of-place with PM1, at least. That's the point.
 
Qayin said:
The narrator for PM1 even asks how Kammy got there. And PM1 had plenty of paper moments (Mario and Goombario falling off a cliff over to take no damage since they're paper, King Goomba's fort being a cheap prop, the Trojan Bowser). If anything, it was Thousand Year Door that tried to move away from the "Mario In A Paper World" depiction with the curses.
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All of those except for Mario and Goompa falling are jokes/simplifications. After the intro, the storybook angle is never brought up again, Goomba King's fort might as well have had a button simply activate the bridge and a Trojan Bowser isn't a paper-related concept.

They could have just redesigned him to stand out more ala Super Princess Peach.
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Super Princess Peach's case was more of a transformation. I don't recall too many instances in which a main series character was redesigned for an RPG which wasn't a transformation.

Bowser has had plenty of games without an obvious right-hand man. And even when he has one from Sunshine onward he's had Bowser Jr. over Kamek or Kammy.
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The entire point of Bowser having a right-hand man is that it's someone to oversee things for him (hence Bowser doesn't have to fly out to put the traps in Shy Guy's Toy Box or whatever) especially in an RPG and with him using his army. It helps with build-up since you can only confront him directly at the end (though it backfired with Sticker Star to the point that Kamek had more presence than him).
Bowser Jr. isn't really portrayed as Bowser's right-hand man nowadays outside of Mario Party and the sports games. In the 3D games, Boom Boom and Pom Pom fill that role after Galaxy, Bowser spent most of NSMB "dead" and Junior + the Koopalings mostly did everything with Bowser only getting involved at the end of Wii. In fact, in the RPGs in which Junior shows up, he's usually off doing his own thing (Sticker Star, Paper Jam, Puzzle & Dragons) while Kamek is portrayed as the right-hand man (Dream Team, Paper Jam, Sticker Star).

I haven't heard anything about all the mentions being Western only. And Sticker Star isn't all that out-of-place with PM1, at least. That's the point.
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I'm not sure myself anymore: The wiki doesn't mention it, but TVtropes has a note that it's only in the US version. I have no way of verifying which is correct, so I'll just assume I made a mistake.
Even so that's two small references. And the very fact that the characters are self-aware of their nature of being paper, something that was rarely mentioned even counting the 4th wall breaks, already makes it out of place. Then you have stuff like the existence of the Things, the design of Mario's House in Color Splash despite the house remaining consistent in the first 3 games, all the Toads looking alike, etc.
 
ThatGuy62 said:
All of those except for Mario and Goompa falling are jokes/simplifications.
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So says you. I don't see grounds not to take them as they are instead of making excuses to not count them.

Also, it was never officially said before Sticker Star that the Paper Marios DID take place in the same world as any of the other Marios. I can say that all mentions or hints of older games in PM1 are just meta-jokes or advertising.

After the intro, the storybook angle is never brought up again, Goomba King's fort might as well have had a button simply activate the bridge and a Trojan Bowser isn't a paper-related concept.
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It's a puppet and obviously a puppet. They could have tried to make it look more mechanical. And I'd call "The End" a hint at the storybook.

Super Princess Peach's case was more of a transformation. I don't recall too many instances in which a main series character was redesigned for an RPG which wasn't a transformation.
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He had a cloak over his robe and curved glasses. Not that big of a change.

The entire point of Bowser having a right-hand man is that it's someone to oversee things for him (hence Bowser doesn't have to fly out to put the traps in Shy Guy's Toy Box or whatever) especially in an RPG and with him using his army. It helps with build-up since you can only confront him directly at the end (though it backfired with Sticker Star to the point that Kamek had more presence than him).
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Didn't say it wasn't. And that brings me back to the developers going through the trouble of making another character instead of just changing Kamek's design a bit.

Bowser Jr. isn't really portrayed as Bowser's right-hand man nowadays outside of Mario Party and the sports games.
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Still countS.

In the 3D games, Boom Boom and Pom Pom fill that role after Galaxy, Bowser spent most of NSMB "dead" and Junior + the Koopalings mostly did everything with Bowser only getting involved at the end of Wii. In fact, in the RPGs in which Junior shows up, he's usually off doing his own thing (Sticker Star, Paper Jam, Puzzle & Dragons) while Kamek is portrayed as the right-hand man (Dream Team, Paper Jam, Sticker Star).
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That just shows the head magikoopas are not really cemented as Bowser's right-hand men (or women) and apparently Bowser Jr isn't either.

I'm not sure myself anymore: The wiki doesn't mention it, but TVtropes has a note that it's only in the US version. I have no way of verifying which is correct, so I'll just assume I made a mistake.
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Might want to ask Legends of Localization.

Even so that's two small references. And the very fact that the characters are self-aware of their nature of being paper, something that was rarely mentioned even counting the 4th wall breaks, already makes it out of place. Then you have stuff like the existence of the Things, the design of Mario's House in Color Splash despite the house remaining consistent in the first 3 games, all the Toads looking alike, etc.
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Mario's setting has long been in flux.
 
That's pretty much all the examples though. I didn't say the paper element is completely absent. But it's not papery as it is just flat characters on a 3d plane. The paper world sometimes gets lost on me in the first Paper Mario game.

I don't know what Trojan Bowser exactly was but it didn't scream paper to me, just a cheap-looking machine stitched together. Didn't see it as a puppet.
 
I agree with you. Shouldn't retry be in the middle, not the bottom?
 
I don't know how how unpopular this is. but of all the single partners/advice faries from Super Paper Mario onward Huey's the best. Not obnoxious like Starlow and Kristi, not too flat like Tippi once you ignore her plot relevance.
 
pretty sure that's the general consensus, really the only fairy like companion in any mario game people seem to consistently like more than huey is cappy
 
Considering the backlash against the direction of the Mario RPGs from Sticker Star onward I've seen on GameFAQs with other websites, I figure saying any of them did anything better than both trilogies for Paper Mario or Mario and Luigi invites controversy. Especially doing anything better than Thousand Year Door or Super Paper Mario.

Speaking of SPM, I'm of the stance while the game's humor is top-notch, it's dramatic parts are put on little too high of a pedestal. Namely for how it handled the villains in the finale (more or less Bleck's posse being mass murderers yet all except Dimentio getting an unconvincing redemption). And Bowser.
 
I don't think those are the pinnacle of what the game has to offer.

The "gas comes from elsewhere" is still amusing, if only for the way it's said. Quality snack time would be better if he didn't explain the joke.
 
Apart from the dating sim, most of the game's humor is pretty meh.
 
Koopa Troopa and Shy Guy are great--most of you seem to agree haha
The original Mario Galaxy is better than MG2
MK8D is a good game and worth buying
Bowser is a tired villain
Luigi > Mario
Super Paper Mario is amazing and worth putting on the side of "good Paper Mario games".
 
Roller said:
Super Paper Mario is amazing and worth putting on the side of "good Paper Mario games".
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Pretty much all of those except for the one above are actually quite popular opinions.
 
Actually, SPM being good is a popular opinion, but it being bad is also a popular opinion. It's probably the most polarizing game in its series. It being bad is more popular on this forum, though.
 
Probaly the most unpopular opinion: Hotel Mario is good.
And also, that Mario Party 9-10 are better than 1-8.
 
I kinda wanna re-visit the game one day. I remember the story being way too serious for a Mario game and I would probably find that funny now. Plus, I remember a lot of ideas the game had that I actually really liked.
 
Roller said:
The original Mario Galaxy is better than MG2 (most people on the forum agree)
Luigi > Mario (more people seem to like Luigi more than they like Mario; if it seems the other way around, it's just that you're just seeing a few in a bunch)
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Mario & Luigi: Dream Team is fantastic and severely underrated. It is my favorite Mario & Luigi game, just barely beating Superstar Saga on my list. In fact, Dream Team is overall my third favorite video game (after Mario Galaxy 2 and Odyssey).

Mario Party 8 is the best Mario Party. In fact, it and Island Tour are the only Mario Party games I’ve played that I consider "great".

Mario Party 10 is better than 9.

Super Mario Sunshine's voice acting was actually pretty good, but if the game is remade you should be able to switch the voice acting on or off.

Yoshi's New Island was a great game and was not disappointing by any means. I'm looking forward to playing Yoshi's Island GBA and DS.
 
Well of course it's not disappointing to somebody who hasn't played the original.
 
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