Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

I love the baby characters and want more. Especially for Mario Kart.
 
Borp said:
I never believed the latter two names were ever official in any capacity, mostly because 'Ala-Gold' (or rather Allah Gold) is from Star War The Third Gathers: The Backstroke of the West.
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Well yeah, that's why I mentioned "fan names", but maybe you can call it unofficial names if it suits them better. I never gotten the impression that they were official anyway, since the first mention for the more popular Bucken-Berry and Ala-Gold came from Destructoid. The 2009 article mentioned it came from a Nintendo rep who prefers not to make a record of it, and given how the names came from there, it's a parallel with IGN's Toad names since Yvan and Wolley came from their 2009 article.

Thank you for reading.
 
Something regarding the film...

I prefer the designs for Mario's parents over the many fan designs that fans came up with throughout the years, especially the mother. The mother is appropriately chubby, which suits the Italian family, whereas a lot of fan designs like to portray the mother as a slender person. Maybe it aligns with how the games gave the mother a slender silhouette, but the official design which I presume is approved by Nintendo or even designed by them, fits the Mario family best. The father's design by comparison, aligns a bit better with many fan designs, but the official father's design is quite good and edges out a bit over the fan designs.

Also actually, I would like the mother to at least appear in the games, because the current human women in the games tend to be doll-like, so her cartoony woman appearance is a breath of fresh air.

Thank you for reading.
 
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It helps that the designs originated from Yoichi Kotabe himself, per Miyamoto, so you're not gonna get any better than that.

I liked how both of Mario and Luigi's uncles looked like Luigi, while their Uncle Tony (?)'s wife kind of resembled DiC's version of the princess.
 
I guess this would qualify as an unpopular opinion right now?

I am not a big fan of the two big Luigi ships, Luigi/Daisy and Luigi/Bowser. I do think the former is cute, but I just like Luigi with other people better. And Luigi/Bowser...

I don't mean to dampen anyone's fun at all, but I will admit it's getting a bit much trying to wade through so much fanart and fanfiction and posts about it to get to the stuff I really want to see and read. It also kind of bites because there's interesting potential to explore with Luigi and Bowser's interactions in-movie and even outside of it, but it seems to me like the edges of their relationship are smoothed out to focus solely on either fluff, or Mario being bewildered that the relationship is occurring and... not much else, from my perspective.

I just think... the relationship is better explored from a platonic edge rather than a romantic edge. I get the appeal of it, but it's really not for me.

(That being said, this opinion shouldn't dictate how you personally feel about it. I've been in fandom spaces for a long time and I know what it's like when people are hateful over things that don't really matter. I promise I'm not that worked up over it. I just must admit, it can be frustrating when I'm looking for other content related to Luigi and the ship is all I see for pages upon pages.)
 
Paper Mario: Titty-Widey's random audience mechanics, while not really necessary, are massively overstated.

Flurrie is an excellent partner; she can one-shot all of your enemies, you don't have to use that many FP for that, and you still get XP! Koops sucks however; pretty much everything he does, items and Vivian do better. Even in the field gameplay, he is promptly and directly superseded by the paper tube transformation and Bobbery. I don't recall being so critical of PM64's Koopa partner, whose name I forgot.

All the time playing the infamous Chapter 2, I was bracing myself for the worst fucking video game experience to ever befall me. It was completely fine. Not great, but more than bog-standard. (Chapter 4 can drift off into never-ending space though.)
 
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My biggest unpopular opinion about TTYD is ironically that Chapter 4's issues are insanely overblown. I don't think I even realized how bad the backtracking was on my first playthrough because the story was that engaging. The backtracking is definitely a bit of a chore on subsequent playthroughs, but nowhere near bad enough to override how much I love what they do with the story in this chapter, it's probably my favorite chapter plot in the entire PM series actually. not to mention the completely nailed aesthetic vibe of the chapter. I do agree it could use a shortcut pipe after the first visit to the steeple however.

On another note, the backtracking in TTYD in general is massively overblown. Some people act like it's bad enough to claim TTYD's longtime praise was undeserved and that it was never as good a game as people claimed. The only time the backtracking was bad enough for me to dread a segment was General White, but compared to the rest of the game, that's still such a small part. Overall I still consider TTYD the gold standard for what I want out of a Paper Mario game, even if Super Paper Mario is my personal favorite. If TTYD's backtracking is the only major flaw people can come up with, I think that says a lot about how solid a game it is overall, it has no silly character restrictions, no safe/gimmicky plot, no experimental battle system, it's just Paper Mario as Paper Mario should be, a grand RPG adventure for the ages.
 
yeah. mind you, i haven't gotten to general white yet, so my perception of the game isn't soured, but so far i found ttyd kinda boring at worst. exploration could've made more use of the Z axis, hence the silly "game is a corridor simulator" bromide, and the backtracking can get a little out of hand sometimes, but it's nothing to tear the game a new one over.

i've long suspected that much of the biting criticism i see towards the game is purely reactionary, and my current experience confirms it. i'm proud to be a TTYDork going forward.
 
Here's an unpopular opinion that I'm fairly sure I'm the only one I have re: TTYD: TTYD has an abysmal soundtrack, probably my least favorite soundtrack in the entire Mario series overall. I don't know why I hate it so much, something about its use of synth irritates the hell out of me and I feel like it's out of place in a Paper Mario game, it feels like it makes the game more into a digital art direction than it does feel "papery" (it doesn't help that the animation feels artificial and computer generated to add onto this digital feel rather than a paper feel)

Like, compare this, the first "area" of the 64 version


and this


I really like the first theme and it really fits the Mario universe and the cute and whimsical aesthetic the game is going for. The second one is just...idk how to describe why I don't like it it just doesn't sound good and as catchy and memorable as the 64 one, and I'd blame the obnoxious synthesizers with a lesser emphasis on the main melody.

Aside from that, the battle theme, mid boss theme, Rogueport Sewers, and Boggly Woods (which is the only music in the game I'd even want to listen to) I don't even remember the rest of TTYD's soundtrack and I played the game.

Re: Backtracking: whatever lol. TTYD has so many other flaws that drag the game down, such as its obnoxious stage elements (esp. fog and needing to pay attention to the fucking garbage people throw at you in the audience) and its world design.

TTYD's indisputable biggest flaw however is the lack of a post office. :V It's not really a Paper Mario game without a postmaster working as a clerk and a single mail carrier carrying one giant monster route for the kingdom (plus that mail carrier fucking yelling "MAIL CALL" for every house that gets mail like who the fuck does that do they really think mail carriers yell that at all the 700+ houses they deliver mail to).
 
I happen to share your spicy take on TTYD's OST. Yeah, it's one-note and uninspired.

That said, the composer returned to lead the score of TOK, which had an all-around superb soundtrack. Very encouraging to learn how much someone can improve over years.

i don't know who actually composed the pieces below but they did a great job under sekigawa. you gotta give him credit for that. if anything, ttyd is more of a doozy in his body of work.

 
I really have to agree that The Origami King has the best Paper Mario soundtrack period, and I say this as someone who has a lot of fond nostalgia for 64s soundtrack. Nothing in 64 can beat the autumn battle music.
 
Ray Trace said:
I really have to agree that The Origami King has the best Paper Mario soundtrack period, and I say this as someone who has a lot of fond nostalgia for 64s soundtrack. Nothing in 64 can beat the autumn battle music.
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I agree that Origami King has the best Paper Mario soundtrack overall but I still think in terms of specific songs, there are one or two songs in Super Paper Mario that are as good as, if not better than Origami King's soundtrack. (Champion of Destruction, and maybe Soft Light and Bounding Through Time)
 
I'm not trying to say this to be provocative (though maybe there's a touch of it) but I do think, tonally and from a world design standpoint, sticker star, color splash, and origami king are closer to what paper mario is supposed to be than either thousand year door or super paper mario.

I daresay they're closer to the original vision for paper mario 64.

Sticker star is to paper mario 64 as what paper mario 64 was to super mario rpg at least in terms what sticker star and paper mario 64 tried to do: dial back on plot elements, don't use oc characters in favor of established mario characters to preserve the brand, keep the story cheerful and straightforward.

They had different results in terms of player reception sure but i understand much better why sticker star exists after reading what developers wanted from paper mario 64
 
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I like TOK's soundtrack, but I'm going to be THAT person and say TTYD and SPM have my favorite soundtracks in the series, especially SPM, and that isn't purely because of my opinion on the games as a whole. I grew up on those soundtracks for PM, to the point where my stepmom banned game audio whenever I played TTYD because she hated how i'd hum the music. I will admit that TTYD has less standout songs than SPM, but SPM is just a masterclass in motif usage. The way they can make Bleck's theme sound intimidating, somber, emotional, or dramatic depending on the track is very inspiring. And I didn't pick up on Mr. L's theme in The Ultimate Show until years later. It only strengthened my love for the soundtrack. SPM's soundtrack may be the first time I picked up on recurring motifs in any game.

The newer games also use motifs well, but I feel like the more traditional instrumentation makes them stand out less. I adore the synthy funk of TTYD and SPM's soundtracks. And yeah I guess me having stronger bonds with the settings and characters the songs are tied to helps a lot. But yeah I guess that's an unpopular opinion, the modern soundtracks are fantastic (probably the only thing about those games still consistently good) but I think the style they went towards with TTYD and SPM is more in-line with my ideal vibe for PM. As for 64's soundtrack, it's very cozy and satisfying. I'm not as crazy about it as I am TTYD & SPM's, and I usually prefer listening to remastered versions of that game's OST, but it still holds up well. I think the entire PM series has great OSTs but I just don't agree that the modern soundtracks, as advanced as they are, blow the older ones out of the water. I won't deny that how attached I am to the story, characters and world the soundtrack is based on likely has a major influence on this. That said, some of my favorite tracks in the modern games are the ones that harken back to TTYD/SPM's vibes, like Island in Violet from Color Splash. The weirder the instrumentation, the more fitting it is to my ideal PM vibe. I still get chills listening to Birth of the Chaos Heart with its fucking spring sounds that really sell the idea that reality is being torn apart
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
I'm not trying to say this to be provocative (though maybe there's a touch of it) but I do think, tonally and from a world design standpoint, sticker star, color splash, and origami king are closer to what paper mario is supposed to be than either thousand year door or super paper mario.

I daresay they're closer to the original vision for paper mario 64.

Sticker star is to paper mario 64 as what paper mario 64 was to super mario rpg at least in terms what sticker star and paper mario 64 tried to do: dial back on plot elements, don't use oc characters in favor of established mario characters to preserve the brand, keep the story cheerful and straightforward.

They had different results in terms of player reception sure but i understand much better why sticker star exists after reading what developers wanted from paper mario 64
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I would have played Sticker Star with zero problems had its gameplay been you know actually compelling; the first two games have great gameplay and I'm not even sure why they threw it away in favor of gimmicks. I'm not a huge fan of especially the boss fights where they are either tediously hard or extremely easy if you have the correct item. Yeah this isn't an unpopular opinion sure (nor is saying Sticker star is a decent game, it scored a 75 on Metacritic which isn't by any means a bad score) but like...man modern Paper Marios gameplay keeps being experimental while still being the worst parts of the game. Origami King and Color Splash have beautiful worlds that I think look better than 64s environments. color splash even has a post office which is nice too.

I also legit think that the Toad oversaturation regarding friendly NPCs in Sticker Star is a reaction towards Nintendo getting very pissy to the team about what Super Paper Mario did to Mario's world and how far it strayed from the general design philosophy of Mario, so I think they're terrified of going that far since and gotten extremely conservative with their NPCs. People like to blame Tanabe for this when I think he's just a messenger, because Tanabe has the same role for Luigi's Mansion 3 (he's basically the producer for foreign developed Mario games such as Donkey Kong, Mario Strikers, Metroid Prime, etc.)

And besides the worst project Tanabe was ever involved in is objectively Tingles Rosy Ruppee Land anyway.
 
people here may know that i'm also guilty for blaming tanabe (and tanabe alone) for character restrictions, but the more i step back to look at the current state of the mario series as a whole, the more exponentially stupid that notion becomes.

even setting aside characters that are designed to not fit in with the Mario cast (like the legion of stationery), the Switch era Mario spin-offs have introduced:
- Legendary hero, Sacred Flamebeast, and Snow King (Mario Golf Super Rush)
- Futbot (heh) from Mario Strikers Battle League
- 90% of Luigi's Mansion 3's cast
- as an aside: actual 3D renders for Snifits (Mario Party Superstars, which also resurrected that fat tree)

it may not seem like much at a glance, but i think this amount of brand new characters is fairly on par with what spin-offs in the N64 and GC eras boasted outside of RPGs.

what happened to paper mario reads less like a brand cleansing mandate and more like a consensus on Intelligent System's part--and, yeah, tanabe is really only a messenger. i wouldn't be able to explain why this happened though, as i don't have insight into that studio's musings.
 
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Nabbit is a actualy good character in NSMBU Delux
Not like i play as him that much ...or play the game much at all
But I think he is a good character to teach people who are new to console gaming
Nabbit 9/10
 
Koopa con Carne said:
people here may know that i'm also guilty for blaming tanabe (and tanabe alone) for character restrictions, but the more i step back to look at the current state of the mario series as a whole, the more exponentially stupid that notion becomes.
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I really appreciate that you took the time to step back and change your stance regarding Tanabe, too many people in this fandom villainize the likes of him without even understanding his actual role in game development. Too many people don't know what a producer does and I think it should be said repeatedly that he's ultimately not responsible for the creative direction of the series. If anything, the overly papery direction of the series from Sticker Star (and probably its gameplay change) is really because the art director for the original Paper Mario, really his idea to paperize Mario to begin with (Naohiko Aoyama) became the director of Sticker Star and Color Splash (he's the art director of Origami King), and he wasn't involved in TTYD and SPM at all. It really explains why those two games had a drastically different art direction from the rest of the series.

I don't know who decided that the NPCs should be copy and pasted Toads but I think we can all agree that having only Toads with little variety among them as friendly NPCs is incredibly bland. I don't even care about seeing the ugly shit like Rip Cheato again, just some variety to who lives in Mushroom Kingdom just living their own life would be nice again.

Koopa con Carne said:
Paper Mario: Titty-Widey's random audience mechanics, while not really necessary, are massively overstated.
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It's just me really. I don't like them. My memories with dealing with the fog are unpleasant. It just wants me to play the original 64 game more where it was simple, straight to the point, and didn't need pointless gimmicks to make battles interesting. Hell, I'd be just perfectly content with 64's battle system but partners have their own HP and can use badges, and yeah sure keep the fucking action commands for the fucking Tattle if you want.
 
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Regarding Tanabe I feel like the Internet is basically perpetually at war regarding whether Miyamoto sterilized the series or Tanabe, but I believe no single person holds 100% of the blame. Out of the two of them, I'm more inclined to place more of it on Tanabe, due to Miyamoto being fairly open about wanting to be less restrictive with Mario, at least since the Switch era. But the main culprit in my eyes is "the IP Team" mentioned in some of the interviews about TOK. Who created it and why is likely irrelevant at this point, but right now I believe it's responsible for filtering out a lot of potential at least in Paper Mario (and the series as a whole when it comes to Toad designs-- I don't think the phasing out of Toadsworth and the sudden lack of any Toads other than Toadette with nonstandard features outside their clothing is pure coincidence).

And a team, by definition, consists of more than one person. I don't think they hold active malice towards the Mario franchise or Paper Mario, they're likely just doing the job they feel like it's their duty to do. But I definitely think they're the last thing clinging to the Wii U era of strictness, if only for Toad designs and PM original characters. Tanabe could be more proactive about resisting it yes, and I think that's why the IP team gets away with so much more on PM than other Mario games, but I believe the source of the issues are with the IP Team. Which is why I think the fanbase, the most passionate people about this series, should make more of an effort to voice these concerns and hopefully one day completely abolish the IP Team or severely loosen it, to the point where Toads with hair, gendered traits (outside Toadette), different shapes and sizes, and unusual colors/patterns on their caps are possible again, and Paper Mario can have character casts more like the pre-Sticker Star days again, and focus on that worldbuilding over papery gimmicks.

I'm all for the brand having some rules to prevent wildly off model stuff like the 1993 movie. But I don't think anything they got away with in the 2000s should be off limits, including the crazier departures like SPM.
 
is this where I butt in with my own hot take and say ToK is unironically the best story the series has ever written
 
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