Do you think the RPG remakes will change the series' again?

[MartinetIsBestMario]

I can see them taking elements from them. I'm not sure if they'll take that huge step of bringing in a lot of new species and characters.

If Anything; I Want to see Characters based off of NPCs & Enemies from Recent games like Super Mario Odyssey;

like Bonnetters, Lochladies, Tostarenians, or any friendly npcs based off of enemies introduced in Super Mario Odyssey

 

[Mymy64]

If Anything; I Want to see Characters based off of NPCs & Enemies from Recent games like Super Mario Odyssey;

like Bonnetters, Lochladies, Tostarenians, or any friendly npcs based off of enemies introduced in Super Mario Odyssey

Even that I'm not sure about. I'd be surprised if even get the enemies from Wonder in the next one.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

If they reboot Mario & Luigi they should focus on making it about Mario & Luigi and make heavy use of pre established characters and pre-established locations that Mario & Luigi already recognize are familiar with. Because this game is about Mario & Luigi, this means family. Mario's Dad and Mario's Mom are party members and a chunk of the story is focused on family drama (this includes Mario and Luigi raising Baby Mario and Baby Luigi) and Mario and Luigi's ambiguous (and likely sheltered) dynamic. The games take place in only Mushroom Kingdom and Brooklyn. Wario and Waluigi are workplace rivals. Spike is there.

 

[Paper Mario]

I wouldn't mind having more pre-established characters show up but definitely not at the expense of characters original to that series. M&L has consistently given some of the best Mario characters, especially the ones from the Beanbean Kingdom. I don't want that lost. I would actually prefer the opposite solution: use them in other games so they don't feel like one-offs and constantly get unfavorably compared to characters who are regulars. Many of them have just as much merit and I have a personal love for them.

 

[Veneer]

mario rpgs suffer from original character bloat. theres so many one off characters that are just very one note or never used again that i just ultimately tune them out to just focus on the brothers if i can. super paper mario is a really good example of this issue because there's a major divide in that fandom from those who like super paper mario for the non-mario elements and as such completely detach it from mario or are there mainly for the mario elements and mr L is their favorite bleck minion. you can assume which of these two categories i fall into.

the original characters that work the best are the ones that add to mario and luigi, not detract from them. prince peasley and prince dreambert are very good examples in my eyes of how original characters should feel in comparison to one note paper mario party members that really don't interest me outside of a design standpoint. mario and luigi paper jam honestly did really good in reeling in the rpg formula to feel more like mario, but also started strangling itself with said tighter rope. there needs to be a balence and no mario rpg has really met that balence outside of mario and luigi partners in time imo. adding more preexisting characters helps with worldbuilding as well. i'd rather have returning consistant characters (with some well written newcomers here and there) than pumping out new characters left and right. reusing preexisting characters wouldn't just be limited to the standard mario crew either, BIS and dream team showed intention to serialize the series in a way by having reoccuring villians and species types from previous games.

 

[Ray Trace]

Hence why I said Wario needs to be a main villain in a Mario RPG than some one-shot motherfucker that'll be forgotten by the next title.

 

[Anglefish]

Wario has the potential to be a great villain. Him and Waluigi could team up and use their own versions of Bros. Attacks!

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

we could abandon villains and just make the next Mario & Luigi game be about generational trau-

 

[Ray Trace]

Plus Wario hypnotized a bunch of new and fresh goons in his first appearance to fight Mario, look at all the shit he did in the Six Golden Coins.

imagine fighting these things in a mario rpg

or this

or even this

 

[Nate Jacobs]

we could abandon villains and just make the next Mario & Luigi game be about generational trau-

saying that sarcastically shows that youre a stuckup diehard of excessive tradition, mario as at its best when its more than JUST for kids

 

[Paper Mario]

those who like super paper mario for the non-mario elements and as such completely detach it from mario

I am definitely a diehard fan of SPM's original characters, but I don't see it like that. To me Bleck, Dimentio, etc are just as much Mario characters as the returning ones, the fact that they made their debut in that game and were not used again afterward doesn't change that status. The same goes for the original characters in the previous PM games and the M&L games. I don't want to separate these characters from Mario, they are Mario characters to me. I wish some of them could get used beyond the series they debuted in and get the level of familiarity that regulars from other Mario games get. The only problem with the amount of original characters is the fact that they get discarded after one use.

I don't think there would be a downside if they still regularly referenced stuff like the Beanbean Kingdom and incorporated such characters into new games, even outside the RPGs. I don't see how that would be inherently lesser than the characters they do currently use. And even the ones that were wrapped up well enough to not need to return (like the majority of SPM) could do with some references and callbacks here and there.

 

[Jack Frost]

The reason you don't see spin off characters in mainline games is because mainline games and spin off games are developed by different teams. Why would the developers of Mario Wonder care about Dimentio? They didn't make Super Paper Mario, they probably haven't even played that game. They'd would rather work with the characters THEY created.

And honestly I like that the characters don't cross over much. I think putting all the spin off characters in the mainline games would make the spin offs lose their identity. Unique characters are what DEFINE Paper Mario and Mario & Luigi. You start putting those characters into all the other games then... well then they wouldn't be unique.

I'm not saying it should never be done - I liked Goomboss in MKDS and SM64DS, but don't go overboard with it. I don't want Mario Wonder 2 to have Dimentio or Fawful as the main villain.

 

[Mcmadness]

This franchise is so huge that most of these things people want to get referenced they probably have never heard of.

Contrary to what fans might think most devs for a series have not played other installments in it that don't relate to their current project.

 

[Doctor Welfare]

This franchise is so huge that most of these things people want to get referenced they probably have never heard of.

Contrary to what fans might think most devs for a series have not played other installments in it that don't relate to their current project.

You've got a good point there

fans: WE WANT MORE MARIO (and if you don't include him in next mario game we will burn your garage)!!!!!
devs: who is this man and why should he be in our game

 

[Ray Trace]

This franchise is so huge that most of these things people want to get referenced they probably have never heard of.

Try playing a completely different franchise and naming the spinoff characters there, this is literally how we sound to the audience Nintendo is catering to.

"I want Toc-Man playable in this Pac-Man game."

"Who the fuck is Toc-Man!?!?!?"

Also this is me when I played Crash Team Racing, who the FUCK is Dingodile and Ripper Roo???

 

[Koopa con Carne]

Also this is me when I played Crash Team Racing, who the FUCK is Dingodile and Ripper Roo???

tbh those debuted in the original Crash trilogy, not in spin-offs. it's like playing Mario tennis and asking "who is this paratroopa guy?"

 

[Ray Trace]

I'm just telling you this as an extremely casual player of Crash Team Racing, now imagine this with like, people playing Mario Kart and hearing about why Nintendo didn't opt to use spinoff characters in their mainline games or whatever.

 

[Daniel Dyce]

Try playing a completely different franchise and naming the spinoff characters there, this is literally how we sound to the audience Nintendo is catering to.

"I want Toc-Man playable in this Pac-Man game."

"Who the fuck is Toc-Man!?!?!?"

Also this is me when I played Crash Team Racing, who the FUCK is Dingodile and Ripper Roo???

Why is Ripper Roo catching strays??? He's the best Crash character!

 

[winstein]

I don't think there would be a downside if they still regularly referenced stuff like the Beanbean Kingdom and incorporated such characters into new games, even outside the RPGs. I don't see how that would be inherently lesser than the characters they do currently use. And even the ones that were wrapped up well enough to not need to return (like the majority of SPM) could do with some references and callbacks here and there.

The reasoning that there is no downside in adding the RPG characters and locations to the other games would be my similar feeling on how adding Daisy and Waluigi to other more "respected series" (Super Mario platformers, character-centered games like Wario or Yoshi, the Mario RPGs) have no downside. Some might think that there is all the downside in the world for adding either to newer games in a major way, especially Waluigi (some justified that he can't be added with the effective reasoning being equivalent to "staying in the kitchen"), but I would chalk it up to just not liking them.

Indeed, one can look no further on it when Daisy is added as playable in Super Mario Bros. Wonder (and maybe to a lesser extent, Super Mario Run). Sure, there may be some who are upset at her inclusion, but it was overall a positive thing because people cheered for it! I do think that the volume of superfans (vocally) dampened this a bit, because detractors can still pinpoint these people to make fun of others for merely liking her.

I also feel that Waluigi sort of got this treatment. Yes, it's true that he's not featured in one of the "respected series", but considering he's introduced in what some might consider an outsider series by virtue of being developed by a non-Nintendo developer, he's actually got it quite good. In that, he could very well be stuck in Mario Tennis and that would be it (some detractors might even view it as the preferable outcome, I imagine), but considering that he got into a lot of Mario series without much issue, we can already see there there is overall no downside to his inclusion, and I think he would be fine in any of the aforementioned "respected series".

Not to mention, despite being created for a Camelot game, there were no credits to Camelot for Waluigi's inclusion in other games, meaning that he is basically treated as an in-house Nintendo character unlike Geno (the GBA Mario & Luigi specifically credited Square-Enix despite Geno being a mere cameo).

Thank you for reading.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

There are some benefits to adding single purpose rpg rando nobodies to more games but their fatal downside is the fact that they're single purpose rpg rando nobodies in a game.

 

[Anglefish]

There are some benefits to adding single purpose rpg rando nobodies to more games but their fatal downside is the fact that they're single purpose rpg rando nobodies in a game.

It'd be funny if the Rabbids were to appear in an official Mario game. I'd love to see Rabbid Peach and Rabbid Rosalina again!

 

[Jack Frost]

The reasoning that there is no downside in adding the RPG characters and locations to the other games would be my similar feeling on how adding Daisy and Waluigi to other more "respected series" (Super Mario platformers, character-centered games like Wario or Yoshi, the Mario RPGs) have no downside. Some might think that there is all the downside in the world for adding either to newer games in a major way, especially Waluigi (some justified that he can't be added with the effective reasoning being equivalent to "staying in the kitchen"), but I would chalk it up to just not liking them.

Indeed, one can look no further on it when Daisy is added as playable in Super Mario Bros. Wonder (and maybe to a lesser extent, Super Mario Run). Sure, there may be some who are upset at her inclusion, but it was overall a positive thing because people cheered for it! I do think that the volume of superfans (vocally) dampened this a bit, because detractors can still pinpoint these people to make fun of others for merely liking her.

I also feel that Waluigi sort of got this treatment. Yes, it's true that he's not featured in one of the "respected series", but considering he's introduced in what some might consider an outsider series by virtue of being developed by a non-Nintendo developer, he's actually got it quite good. In that, he could very well be stuck in Mario Tennis and that would be it (some detractors might even view it as the preferable outcome, I imagine), but considering that he got into a lot of Mario series without much issue, we can already see there there is overall no downside to his inclusion, and I think he would be fine in any of the aforementioned "respected series".

Not to mention, despite being created for a Camelot game, there were no credits to Camelot for Waluigi's inclusion in other games, meaning that he is basically treated as an in-house Nintendo character unlike Geno (the GBA Mario & Luigi specifically credited Square-Enix despite Geno being a mere cameo).

Thank you for reading.

I disagree with the idea that including Daisy in more games is akin to adding the RPG characters in. The difference between Daisy and the RPG cast is that Daisy isn't a spin off character... she's just as mainline as Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are. How much she's used is irrelevant to her status as a member of the main cast. She was created in-house at Nintendo for a mainline Mario game (Super Mario Land).

 

[Ray Trace]

I disagree that there isn't a downside to referencing past Mario locations such as those from Mario RPGs or Mario Party. In Mario Kart for example, they can either spend resources to make a BeanBean Kingdom track, or they'll use it to make wholly original and unique tracks (like Coconut Mall or Sunshine Airport). Obviously, they spent more time on the latter for various reasons, but that's an expenditure they have to take, you can't have both with limited development resources (money and time). Similarly, characters also take resources and time to make, and they simply felt use of their resources are better spent towards making characters like Pauline or Peachette. Whether that was a good or bad call, that's entirely subjective.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

And if you're gonna protest why not just reuse Beanbean Kingdom, why it has to be this way, why is there an essentialist approach to these locales, consider this: if you wanna expand on existing kingdoms then why not just expand on Mushroom Kingdom. That diabolical eldritch locale has still a pathetic excuse for world building where it's deliberately made second fiddle to a fun recycleable gameplay gimmick or changes its locations to keep it fresh for players or some crap at the expense of anything believable. If they wanna expand on characters why not existing ones that are made virtually unknown and literally utterly speechless, especially the man with 100 marbillion games to his name.

Hence my half joking (perhaps flippant) suggestion earlier: you wanna have original donuts, let's make ocs more focused on existing characters like a basic family expansion and less on fundamentally flawed, terminally self-limited nobodies with virtually zero backstories or even basic aspirations (or if they have a shred of backstory they are an utterly irredeemable monster like that one top hatted monocule wearing punk from that one game was). The mom and dad of the bros. were the best of both worlds in terms of new characters tbh. Let's give Bowser a mom next.

This begs the question too of why exactly you are expecting more "world building" for Mario when it's also fundamentally limited for the sake of entertainment for little kids and grandparents alike and, in a particular paper spinoff rpg subseries, for babies, but let's just entertain the notion in this thread.

 

[winstein]

I disagree with the idea that including Daisy in more games is akin to adding the RPG characters in. The difference between Daisy and the RPG cast is that Daisy isn't a spin off character... she's just as mainline as Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser are. How much she's used is irrelevant to her status as a member of the main cast. She was created in-house at Nintendo for a mainline Mario game (Super Mario Land).

That is correct: technically Daisy is not in the same group as RPG characters, but there is a vibe by many people who thinks that she is a spinoff character because of how frequently she appears there. A bit similar to Wario to an extent: he's introduced in a Super Mario platformer but he's more common in spinoffs (though he's got the benefit of appearing in his own games, so he lacked the spinoff stigma that Daisy and Waluigi are frequently accused of).

Because of how often she is accused of appearing in spinoffs, there is a vibe by some fans that she should stay there, and perhaps relatedly, the Mario Awards even labeled Daisy as a supporting character. More or less admitting that she is not as "main" as the major characters (where Toadette, Kamek, and Diddy Kong are included, the former even first appearing in a spinoff). Though I should point out that I disagree with the opinion (that a character predominantly appearing in spinoffs can only exist there): she can appear in other Super Mario platformers or any other RPG game or a Peach/Luigi game without any issue.

The gist of my post isn't that I feel that there is no downside for RPG characters to appear there. But it's that a less-frequent character can still appear in more games because they don't necessarily have the imaginary baggage that makes them somehow forbidden. Hence I mentioned how it's a "similar feeling" to the one above.

Thank you for reading.