Alphadream files for bankruptcy

TheSuperStarSaga

Cheep Cheep
You could try to argue that but boy oh boy would you be wrong.
As for what makes a story good to me, depends on what we are talking about, for me a "good" Mario story would be something light hearted and humorous with an emphasis on adventure and whimsy. But no matter what it would have to be simplistic as thats all Mario is capable of being (and all it should be) which is why I don't hold any Mario stories in high regard.
Thanks for taking me up on the discussion! This splits into two premises:
  • Why is simplicity a necessity for a story to be a good Mario story?
  • Would you agree there could be a Mario game with a good story, even while not being a good Mario story?

For example, you've stated you don't think Super Paper Mario is a good Mario story, but would you acknowledge it as a good story on it's own merits?
 

Vivian

Shadow Siren
Yeah, most Mario RPGs have simplistic plots that don't take themselves too seriously, which is what Mario games should be doing, imo. Thousand-Year Door kind of pushed that line, but I feel that the more serious parts were in a limited-enough quantity that it doesn't quite cross it. Super Paper Mario went overboard in every way and is a perfect example of what a Mario RPG shouldn't do.
hard disagree on that last one imo, the story is what makes it my favorite entry in the series. I think a better example of what a MaRPG shouldn't do can be found one entry later.

"Deep" isn't a word I'd use to describe Dream Team but it certainly had heartfelt moments and is a great game with great characters. But I definitely would lean more towards the darker and more complex plots for my MaRPG preference in most cases. SPM scratching that itch so hard is why I'll jump to defend it whenever I see it lumped with the later games, but at least most complaints are about the gameplay being changed, which is at least more understandable.
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Shine Sprite
Poll Committee
hard disagree on that last one imo, the story is what makes it my favorite entry in the series. I think a better example of what a MaRPG shouldn't do can be found one entry later.
SPM's story wasn't bad, but I just don't think Mario games should go that far. It was just over-the-top and took itself too seriously. It had none of the Mario charm and humor that Mario RPGs are known for. I feel it was a good plot, just not a good Mario plot. Say what you will about Sticker Star's plot, but at least it remembered that it had "Mario" in the title.

I completely respect your opinion, though. After all, I'm a very big fan of what may well be the most divisive Mario & Luigi game.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Thanks for taking me up on the discussion! This splits into two premises:
  • Why is simplicity a necessity for a story to be a good Mario story?
  • Would you agree there could be a Mario game with a good story, even while not being a good Mario story?

For example, you've stated you don't think Super Paper Mario is a good Mario story, but would you acknowledge it as a good story on it's own merits?
Because Mario has thrived on simplicity for pretty much it's entire life. It's the series I play when I'm NOT looking for something to get heavily invested in or need to put much thought into beyond what I'm currently doing at that moment. And to be frank in general it's potential as a series to tell interesting stories is very, VERY low. Even SPM which I've heard many tout as the "best Mario story" is just a painfully average jrpg storyline. I mean shit most of it's major story beats are basically the same as Dragon Quest 4. A game that came out on the NES for pete's sake.

Basically I've often felt that were it not for the Mario licensing, no one would give a crap about the Mario rpg storylines as they are all really quite generic.
 

LeftyGreenMario

Mushroom Kingdom's second greenest plumber
IMO Mario does it best when it's simple or it's absolutely stupid. There's just no way for Mario to tell a story that has components of a great story: complex facets of personality, socio-political commentary (maybe?), complex motivations, heavy use of ambiguity; no plot holes, no Mary Sues, ; it'll not jive with the rest of the design without impeding on gameplay and character design, which is easy to follow, easy to understand, easy to learn. Simple story is fine! It's a design choice developers often have to tussle with and it has to be balanced as well as the game as well should developers choose to have a bit of a story. A nice story or characters can be good though I feel there would be little point to making one stand out if people ultimately would pay so little attention to it especially given the audience for Mario games. And if I had to choose between a complex story and complex gameplay, I'd go for gameplay. Gimme Mario with the depth and overwhelming bunch of stats of a Monster Hunter game, that'll be great.

Mario Tennis Aces did story-telling best, with its demonic evil tennis racket, though the only thing it's really missing is Mario talking and having some dumb Toad talk for him. To be fair, it's not a problem unique to Mario Tennis Aces.
 

LeftyGreenMario

Mushroom Kingdom's second greenest plumber
AlphaDream's problems stem from a combination of poor sales, poor management, poor decisions, and bad luck. There's little we can do to help when it comes to business stuff. AlphaDream has been running into millions in deficit for more than a year or so, and its revenue was probably on decline well before that. But anyhow, that hat-shaped ship has flown and sunk. It's not salvageable.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Best you can hope is they re-group under a new name/different company and continue working.
 

Vivian

Shadow Siren
I hope Nintendo hires them so they can continue with M&L in-house while keeping the series' charm.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
I wouldn't be surprised if that happened. I mean thats what happened with Hudson and NDCube.
 

Vivian

Shadow Siren
I mean Mario Party did change for a good while following that switch though, notably the series pretty much stopped incorporating unique hosts and any series-specific characters and started using common Mario characters instead (where they better fit being playable in that series). Even if Super Mario Party went back to the classic gameplay somewhat, the series remains almost ignorant of all the characters the Hudson games featured like Koopa Kid. Almost as if their licensing got lost. They did get shouted out in Top 100 but are pretty obviously being avoided wherever possible, like Koopa Kid's roles being replaced by Bowser Jr. I definitely don't want that to happen with M&L, if every future game has the character variety of Paper Jam I'll be disappointed.

I only want M&L back if it continues to not only have the charm but the bizarre & wacky original character designs mixed with the common Mario characters. Without that it doesn't feel the same. It's why I hate modern Paper Mario and anything it touches.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Well Mario Party wasn't exactly huge on the whole OCs thing. You could probably count the amount of notable OCs in Mario Party on 2 hands.

As for the gameplay shift, whether they had gone down or not I feel 9 still would have turned out the way it did as when 8 came out people were (at the time) really shitting on the repetitiveness of Mario Party and it's formula.

So It's a different sort of thing overall I'd say.
 

Pokerninja2

Goomba
I mean Mario Party did change for a good while following that switch though, notably the series pretty much stopped incorporating unique hosts and any series-specific characters and started using common Mario characters instead (where they better fit being playable in that series). Even if Super Mario Party went back to the classic gameplay somewhat, the series remains almost ignorant of all the characters the Hudson games featured like Koopa Kid. Almost as if their licensing got lost. They did get shouted out in Top 100 but are pretty obviously being avoided wherever possible, like Koopa Kid's roles being replaced by Bowser Jr. I definitely don't want that to happen with M&L, if every future game has the character variety of Paper Jam I'll be disappointed.

I only want M&L back if it continues to not only have the charm but the bizarre & wacky original character designs mixed with the common Mario characters. Without that it doesn't feel the same. It's why I hate modern Paper Mario and anything it touches.
Like Mcmadness above said, people were getting tired of the repetitive Mario Party formula by the time Mario Party 8 is released. I don't think you can say the same is being said for Mario & Luigi, as even detractors of Mario & Luigi: Paper Jam admit that the game is still fun and engaging from a gameplay standpoint.

Should AlphaDream regroup as a new company or Nintendo buys them out so they can develop in-house, I don't think it'll change that much since it's the same people working on it. The event that Nintendo decides to hand Mario & Luigi to a new developer is what I think should be raising these concerns more. I'm no expert on what goes on behind closed doors so I could be entirely on the wrong track though.
 
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