Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS Discussion

[freakworld]

And another morning Sakurai woke up and thought it was a good idea to add Dark Pit

 

[Weasel]

Bowser Jr. was on the brink of being cut but the staff said 'We'll do our best!' and we made it." — Masahiro Sakurai

My humblest thanks to the Smash Bros. team. You are all amazing.

For all we know, Sakurai woke up one morning and was like "We need to add Duck Hunt".

best idea <3

Aside from Mega Man, these are my 2 favorite newcomers, hands down.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

For all we know, he might have had a nightmare about Ridley in Smash, so maybe that's why he didn't make Ridley a playable character. :P

Nah, I think this roster is actually a lot better than I first thought. I feel like there is a lot more diversity in terms of movesets than there were before. I mean, sure, you have the 3 clones, but then you have such unique movements like with Shulk, Duck Hunt, Rosalina, Robin, Greninja, Mega Man, Pac-Man...basically all the newcomers have a lot of things going for them.

 

[ernesth100]

I made a couple of Mii Fighters based on my favorite characters. I figure this'd be the perfect place to post the images.

Here's
Spider-Man(My Favorite)

Godzilla

Shadow

Super-Man


Goku

Vegeta

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

So what intensity do you guys play Classic on?

Generally 7.0, but I think I can manage 8.0-9.0 if I play it enough.

 

[ernesth100]

So what intensity do you guys play Classic on?

Generally 7.0, but I think I can manage 8.0-9.0 if I play it enough.

I play on 7.0-8.0 as well. Never got past the thing after Master Hand where it turns into that black stuff though.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Meh, I actually got through 9.0 with Mario without equipment (on accident). I think I got Master Core's attacks down, though, although some can be hard to dodge nevertheless.

 

[Ray Trace]

I can do 9 no problem...until Master Core.

Master Core is such a ridiculous spike in difficulty, no matter what intensity you're on. @_@

same here

i hate that mofo

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

Sakurai finally speaks about why Smash isn't more for the competitive people:

Q: There are people who play very seriously, in grand finals for official tournaments, and then there are people who are just happy to see their favorite character in the game. How do you feel about that?

Sakurai: If people want to play seriously 1v1, they should do that, and if people simply want to enjoy the game, they should do so. There might even be people who only like to play with their amiibo. I think it's good that there are so many different ways to enjoy this game.

Q: So, then, this is good...

"Mmm. Personally, I feel that if you want to play a fighting game seriously, there are other competitive fighting games that are more suited to that, and people like that could have fun playing those. If you play Smash Brothers seriously as a competitive game, the game itself has no future."

If I wanted to, I'm sure I could make a more hardcore Smash Brothers game. I could make the game speed much faster, increase the number of inputs...but then, beginners would no longer be able to play the game. When the game becomes more like a sport, a tool that more strictly rewards the player with more skill, the game tapers off more, like a mountain. Just like how a mountain tapers off into its peak, that area becomes more and more narrow.

Q: So only those who desire to reach the top remain.

Sakurai: There are lots of games like that out there. If we made* the game to make it more spectator friendly, that would be a bad thing. Smash needs to be a game that new players can play. Some level of technical skill may be necessary, but if just try and can move your character around a bit, that's the important bit. We do show the results of the battle, but everyone just mashes A, right? To move on, to keep going. Making people feel this way is important.

Editor's Note: The translator explained that Sakurai chose a strange verb here that the translator has never seen used in this context. He says the verb implies that making the game "spectator friendly" would be a "downgrade," but isn't certain.

Q: I'll admit, regardless of whether I win or lose, I always think "just one more."

Sakurai: I fought, I lost...these results and suffering from painful feelings is how the user base shrinks, and we want to avoid that with Smash. In that sense, Smash has many elements that are rather ambiguous and nebulous in regards to competition.

 

[GalacticPetey]

So basically Sakurai only wants people to play the game his way? Okay then.

Makes me question all the stuff like supporting tournaments, adding for glory, making gamecube controller support.

I know my post is gonna cause a shit storm because apparently competitive players = the devil so I'll just quote this post from Reddit.

He's... kinda right and kinda wrong at the same. He says by making Melee 2.0, then the casual audience will be alienated. This is not true. Most fans will play Smash Bros no matter what. But he's afraid of having someone good walk into a party, combo the shit out of a casual, and leave, resulting in the Casual being super salty. This, according to Sakurai, will turn fans away from the series. He is very, very wrong here. 85% of the people are going to buy the game regardless of the physics. The thing that will make or break the game, in my opinion, is the roster (as I personally know a person who bought the game just because Lucina was a character, as we all do), but I digress.
What I interpreted from what Sakurai is trying to say here is that if you only care for the pure competitive aspect of Smash ALONE, just the combos and physics, then you should go. He wants people to actually experience the full game instead of just grinding For Glory or something. I'm an offender of that rule currently, as I haven't used every final smash, nor have I played on every stage or collected every song or tried every challenge (A habit that I have recently stopped). Sakurai wants this to be a fun party game, rather than a sport. He wants people to have fun with the game, but doesn't think that the competitive scene is fun for people.
He's semi-right on his idea of having a faster game vs a slower game though. This is similar to the League of Legends vs Dota 2 debate. Dota 2 is much harder, and thus turns away some people who aren't able to keep up with it. League is much easier, and therefore more accessible. This is his philosophy. This works for LoL because it is strictly competitive, with a second emphasis on fun. The argument of having a slower game, rather than a fast game is not as effective for Smash, as people buy it for fun first, then a competitive scene second.
This quote in itself means that if Nintendo wants to make Super Melee Bros 4.0, this would ruin the series, and it will not at all. People will buy the game regardless. Also, people are going to rage if they get stomped by someone better, such is life. But you don't see the millions of LoL players quiting after getting beat by someone with better mechanics. Heck, I would personally try harder to get better. I'm really thankfully for Smash 4 as it allows me to get a small look at what a competitive scene is, due to the slower speed. But keeping the game intentionally slow on the basis of preventing it from turning away players is really dumb.
But that's just my $0.02
¯\(ツ)/¯

TLR: If it says "Super Smash Bros", we will buy it. Regardless of game speed and physics.
Edit: Made a lot of edits.
Edit2: Added a tl;dr
Also, if I get junked by someone that's better than me in a friendly game, I'll still be having fun. If I wasn't up to the level of competitive smashers in something like PM, I would not go to a PM tournament to get trashed. I'll still be playing Smash and I'll still be having fun with his game, just not with someone that trashes me in an unfun way. This is what Sakurai needs to take notice of.

 

[ernesth100]

Well ya can't do anything about it Smash Bros WiiU and 3DS are already out and aren't getting any DLC other than Mewtwo.

So I guess we just have to settle for this for now until the next Smash Game. IF there is a next Smash Game.

 

[Ray Trace]

So I guess we just have to settle for this for now until the next Smash Game. IF there is a next Smash Game.

why do people still believe in this bullshit

anyway, sakurai is, well, as the redditor said, both right and wrong. i don't want my smash to be a bunch of complicated combos depending on how you sophisticatedly break your controller (a reason games like street fighter, marvel vs capcom or soul calibur never appealed to me) but neither do i want the competitive nature to be a complete joke like how brawl is (enough to make stuff like project m for crying out loud).

the reason we like melee is that it was a fine balance between being too technical and having fair stuff and not op or stupid stage hazards that would limit a stage's playability nor affect the competitive nature of things.

i don't play the game seriously, but i know and understand the game's mechanics to be at least decent at it...at least beat my friends on a consistent basis that is and several people who randomly challenge me to a game. and yet i still adore melee, smash 4 (especially its chaotic 8 player smashes) and i hate brawl's mechanics like lack of hitstun and air-dodge spam.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

I actually agree with a lot of what the redditor stated, especially about how Sakurai probably wants people to focus on more than just the "for glory" stuff, and wanting people to be able to play whatever mode they want in Smash, and not make it more centered on for glory just so that people feel left out.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

"Mmm. Personally, I feel that if you want to play a fighting game seriously, there are other competitive fighting games that are more suited to that, and people like that could have fun playing those. If you play Smash Brothers seriously as a competitive game, the game itself has no future."

If I wanted to, I'm sure I could make a more hardcore Smash Brothers game. I could make the game speed much faster, increase the number of inputs...but then, beginners would no longer be able to play the game. When the game becomes more like a sport, a tool that more strictly rewards the player with more skill, the game tapers off more, like a mountain. Just like how a mountain tapers off into its peak, that area becomes more and more narrow.

I busted my ass laughing here. Nobody wants more inputs in their Smash game ala Street Fighter and Soul Caliber. Melee could've fostered with and without wavedashing or DACUS (which isn't even in Melee) or waveshining or moonwalking. A lot of competitive players want competitively-healthy core mechanics, which are enough hitstun, landing lag, invincibility frames, etc. Besides, things like L-canceling, wavedashing, and SHFFL are not extremely complex inputs, but they require some finesse. These "complex" maneuvers are created with strings of simple inputs, so I'm baffled why Sakurai thinks that people want more inputs.

Melee has the casual appeal as well either way. I never play tourneys (besides those two tourneys I nearly won at high school and the one I won at Gamestop during the wait for Smash 4 3DS) but I love Melee way more than Barlw.

I love the competitive players because they open windows for ME to play my characters as well as I can. I don't mean that they reduce diversity, but they are framework for which moves work and which moves don't work, so if the competitive environment is a joke, I can't take games like Barlw seriously either. I enjoyed using Kirby in Melee more than I enjoy using Mario in Barlw, even though both are essentially bottom-tier, so it can't be personal bias coloring my perception on Barlw.

 

[ernesth100]

Okay guys we get it. Melee was the best smash game. Smash4 was a let down.

(Yet 80% of you bought it and play it daily.)

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Okay guys we get it. Melee was the best smash game. Smash4 was a let down.

(Yet 80% of you bought it and play it daily.)

I was looking forward to Smash 4, even with just modest expectations, but I think it delivered for the most part. It just can't stand up to Melee, you know? Barlw left a horrid taste in my mouth, and when Smash 4 was out, it still had that Barlw-y after taste. The biggest thing I have with Smash 4 was that it was Barlw with better physics rather than a new Super Smash Bros. games. This Smash Bros. had the fewest changes from its direct predecessor.

 

[Glitchy Bowser Jr.]

Smash 4 wasn't a letdown to me, in fact it's my favourite.

 

[Magikrazy]

Is Barlw a mod or something?

 

[Nysic]

Nah they just call it that to poke fun at it

I think

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

My order of favorites is this, including mods because some mods have wildly different physics engines.

vBarlw <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Smash Bros. 4 < Smash 64 < Barlw- < Project M (Barlw hack) < Melee

It's hard to choose between Project M and Melee because Project M has so much content packed in one little free mod (special mode includes All-Star, which lets you play as several characters standing in as stock, similar to the last match in Smash Tour; Stamina Mode has so much more options; it's open to music modding too).

I haven't played Barlw- in such a long time, although its files confuse me since I use riivolution and I'm not sure if stuff like common5.pac needs renaming or something.

Is Barlw a mod or something?

I don't know if you're joking or not, but Barlw is just my own mock word for "Brawl".

Nah they just call it that to poke fun at it

I think

You're right.

I even say "Barlw" in conversation.

I feel like making one up for "Melee", but I don't know which "typo" for Melee is widely used.

 

[SonicMario]

I'm still one of those who say each installment of Smash is better in the last :V Call me someone who just goes with whatever is new all the time all you want. (Though that's certainly not true with every series I like) but I've always felt that.

Though part of what influenced my love for Brawl did have personal reasons. Like I would have never met the online friends I ended up meeting if I didn't begin going on online communities. Smashboards during the Pre Brawl days was my first forum I ever joined.

I like all the Smash games. More characters, content, and things to do makes it more enjoyable for me. I do appreciate the CONSTRUCTIVE criticism from those who preferred Melee though. As I defintely think they're why Smash 4 feels like a perfect balance between the two games. I feel Smash 4 takes the best of both worlds really.

 

[Nysic]

I feel like making one up for "Melee", but I don't know which "typo" for Melee is widely used.

Meele?

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

I feel like making one up for "Melee", but I don't know which "typo" for Melee is widely used.

Meele?

"Meele" sounds just about right, but do people use it a lot?

Smash 4 could've done with more hitstun, one-use air dodging, less emphasis on rolling and shielding, more shield-stun, shorter blastlines, and a few others, but the characters do feel more mobile, don't get me wrong. I was afraid that Smash Bros. could've went in Barlw's direction further, but it didn't, and I'm relieved that it's a faster-paced game rather even floatier and slower.

 

[SonicMario]

I think Melee's mock name is essentially the "No Items. Fox Only. FINAL DESTINATION" joke

 

[Magikrazy]

I prefer FOX ITEMS FINAL ONLY NO DESTINATION!