Unpopular opinions about the Mario series

[Superchao]

eh, it just feels unproductive. we know where everyone stands, we know what everyone thinks, the views will never change, and it means that literally any time someone mentions SPM in this board the same stuff starts up. i've had people tell me they actively avoid bringing up certain games because they don't want to spark the perpetual debate

anyhow wario needs to be knuckles, this is not up for debate

 

[Xiahou Dun]

See my comment under "John's semi-professional opinions."

The extent to which I like any game is influenced by personal biases, but objective judgements are attempts to step away from that bias as much as possible and consider the dev's choices and the properties of the game that make it fulfilling from a rational and less biased perspective. Whilst a human being such as myself could never achieve a perfectly objective judgement, as we cannot help being at least slightly biased, I do not view trying as either impossible or insensible.

You shouldn't try to step away from your biases. That's impossible. Instead, acknowledge your biases first and then try to be reasonable by supporting them with either facts or good reasoning and be aware of faults in human reasoning. "Objective judgements" aren't possible at all. You can try to be as "neutral" as possible but you'll never escape your biases, but what matters more is being fair by examining all relevant (relevancy also being subjective) facts presented *especially* looking critically at those that confirm your biases, as we're all naturally less inclined to object to things we agree with compared to things we disagree with. Not checking with elements that disconfirm your hypothesis is how flawed opinions form (particularly confirmation bias) and lead to arguably bad takes such as "Mario is mental". Those judgements are ultimately opinions formed from examining what the facts are, comparing experiences with one another, then reasoning, then arriving at a conclusion based on those.

my unpopular opinion is that i'm pretty sure we've all heard this conversation a hundred times before in this board

do we really need to hear it again, i ask of everyone involved

I don't see a need to police conversation based on how many times it's discussed and brought up. As long as a fanbase remains large, attracts new people, and has disagreeing opinions, there's always going to be new people who express the same opinions from time to time which shouldn't be ignored or just have no response? I also feel I've advanced away from discussing about RPGs now and am talking more about how to form reasonable opinions, which as long as cognitive biases exist, remain as nice advice. There are tons of recurring debate material throughout this forum (Mario Kart roster and gameplay complaints, Super Smash Bros. roster discussion, Mario platforming complaints including character line-up like Waluigi Wario Daisy Donkey Kong, Mario Party complaints). It's just that how MaRPG/Mario platforming stories are handled tend to be lengthier due to such a broad net it covers and is an ongoing source of contention throughout the entire series, so I expect that conversation to exist probably as long as the Mario series is a thing.

That's fine. I don't see the problem. It promotes activity, it promotes discussion, encourages engagement in the community (which can promote new members sticking around and adding their opinions or sharing their experiences outside of the contentious debate zone) and the discussion here has been pretty okay and worth a read even if it's debated already.

 

[Xiahou Ba]

Personally, I find it stimulating, even if it is repetitive and people aren't inherently going to flip sides on a debate. Even though I harp on it, I like thinking about its plot and researching about it, as well as talking about other fantastic games I adore. Hell, I didn't even know Kefka nor Final Fantasy 6 all that well, so I read about him and a synopsis on his role in Final Fantasy 6 in Wikipedia and I learned something out of it!

It is just an unpopular opinion of mine, though. And on a personal level, let's just say I had been there before. I used to think Mario needed extended plot to its games, but it was something that shed off me as the years went on.

You're speaking to someone who bought a game only to tussle with the modding tools for hours long and straight JUST to play as a Mario character who just looks and sounds different from the base character, after all. So many games I've modded. GTA V, Left 4 Dead 2, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, Super Smash Bros. Ultimate....fuck I'm losing track of the games I've tinkered with...Sonic Adventure 2 is next on that list btw

 

[Xiahou Ba]

anyhow wario needs to be knuckles, this is not up for debate

How the hell would Wario fly around? Farting?

Oh..mods.

I could do it but modding SA2 is A PAIN. I'll tell you that right now.

 

[Biddybud]

Is that Mario Adventure Battle 2 a fully developed mod?

 

[Xiahou Ba]

The Sunshine Mario doesn't come with voice clips or a ball roll model and the import was done by someone else. My sister and I did the in-game voice clips (my twin picked the voice clips, I packed them together, cutscene voice clips is a different story). I also cribbed some assets from another person 64's model, Mario glows red when he jumps.

I had done imports over Knuckles, Tails, and Rouge though.

 

[Mcmadness]

If the people are being civil I see no reason to discontinue the discussion.

Besides the discussion involves someone who I believe is relatively new here so there is potential new perspectives to be learned and shared.

 

[Xiahou Ba]

Oh god, people are going to request me to do Waluigi over Rogue next.

 

[Marceline]

someone who I believe is relatively new here

Do you mean me?

You can try to be as "neutral" as possible but you'll never escape your biases

I admitted that, but I don't see a problem with trying. I mean sort of one reason I support the idea of objective judgements even if they can never be perfect, say someone said Super Mario Galaxy is the worst Mario game (and assume they have played all of them) then I'm obviously in a way tempted to say "you're wrong" but actually, they have the right to like it the least out of all Mario games, but whether you like playing it or not, there's no doubt that it represents a great leap forward in graphical power next to Sunshine, and that there were some very popular gameplay additions, and the story contains more content than Super Mario 64. Ergo, if there's a Mario game I personally don't enjoy playing but "objectively" judge as well-made and holding up well to this day if it is significantly old, I won't say "it's an awful game, don't play this", I'll say "I didn't enjoy this game and here's why, but I credit the devs on so and so and I think it should be appealing to most people so I'm still going to recommend it."

I'm certainly not trying to say "what I think is objectively right and everyone else is objectively wrong".

eh, it just feels unproductive. we know where everyone stands, we know what everyone thinks, the views will never change, and it means that literally any time someone mentions SPM in this board the same stuff starts up. i've had people tell me they actively avoid bringing up certain games because they don't want to spark the perpetual debate

I mean that's sort of why I'm saying we need to decide what the aim of this discussion is. However it's actually quite interesting as this is the first time I've encountered a person who sincerely despised the plot of Super Paper Mario and it's interesting to hear why. But my love for SPM will likely never change.

Well my life is quite busy right now but I'll have to write a rather long response to that.

To be honest I don't feel like doing that anymore but I will say that a lot of your criticisms was the fact that SPM leaves many things unexplained. Taking Dimentio for example, sure I would have loved to have known his origins, but he's still an epic villain to me and he's deeper than I would expect from most Mario games, even if he's rather shallow in the wider world of RPGs. The thing is that if I were to try FF6 (don't have a SNES though and it's not on VC) or sth sure I might like it but I just don't feel I could attach myself to it as much as Mario. Even Ocarina of Time, a Nintendo RPG which I do like, just isn't the same.

How the hell would Wario fly around? Farting?

Oh..mods.

I could do it but modding SA2 is A PAIN. I'll tell you that right now.

Don't forget that double posting within three days is not approved of on this board.