Do you think the RPG remakes will change the series' again?

Title Question

  • Nah, the next Mario RPG title will be as boring as the previous ones.

  • I think the next Mario RPG would try to learn the popular elements from these remakes.

  • I think the popular Mario RPGs will influence all future Mario games (including main canon).

Results are only viewable after voting.
Dorayakiss

Dorayakiss

Goomba
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We know that Mario series somehow started a strict guideline for original contents in non-mainline games after WiiU era:
*OCs for each game are strictly allowed.
*Species individual uniqueness and diversity are also forbidden: it's hard to find an original minor Toad and Koopa character nowaday.

And according to occured fact: I don't think Nintendo already tried to cater to the past RPGs in past few years, consider that Origami King as well as other released games didn't really wow people in terms of originality. And unsurprisingly the 2023 movie exactly shared no RPG references.

But anyway, since NIntendo still agreed to make the Seven Stars and TTYD remakes, these games might mean some value to them and fans can still have hope. Do you think the remakes will cast some light on future Mario RPGs as well as the entire franchise?


(And for real, aside from Geno's own popularity, I actually think Geno could had fit well in Showtime by his puppet identity if Nintendo was willing to consider it.)
 
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Although they aren't completely new games, it seems like Nintendo is acknowledging the fans' desires for the awesome Mario RPGs again. This could mean that fresh new games are in production! Now all we need is a new Mario & Luigi game. THAT would exhilarate me.
 
I'd argue Paper Mario is the only corner of this franchise to have actually undergone these restrictions to the fullest. Even during the supposed "sterile" spell of Mario games from 2011 to ~2013 (which tbh is an appropriate qualifier in comparison to what you see today), NSMB2, NSMBU, and Mario 3D Land still got new enemies and even at least one character (Nabbit). It's only Paper Mario that made a point to have Red Toads, Blue Toads, Yellow Toads, and Green Toads as NPCs during and after that period of time. I'd frame that as the developer taking to heart what Nintendo's IP supervisors were championing for the brand as a whole, or maybe even some weird creative self-flagellation that I don't personally understand.

(Some will bring up Paper Jam as an extension of these restrictions beyond the Paper Mario series, but its predecessor, Dream Team, a game with original characters and scenarios, was developed during the time Nintendo was supposedly reining in the Mario brand. Paper Jam was also followed by a bunch of Mario & Luigi remakes that were fairly faithful to the original material. I'd say that game is more of an exception.)

I guess what I'm trying to say is that you shouldn't take these RPG remakes to be a promise that this particular genre of Mario games is slated to be good again. TTYD could double TOK's sales and we'd still wake up 4 years later to the announcement of Paper Mario: The Glue Goober where you battle enemies by conducting glue to them Pipe Mania-style. That may well be a realistic scenario considering Nintendo's developers (as in, the creative forces behind the games) are typically given a lot of freedom to experiment with gameplay concepts and aren't all that prone to chase trends or what the playerbase wants.
 
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Voted first option because I know Mario RPGs won't do the progressive thing and make Wario the main antagonist.
 
The MaRPG games are famous for their boring stories so I also voted the first option.
 
Well Mario and Luigi doesn't show any hope of coming back soon if ever. As for Paper Mario I think based on what we currently know it could swing either way. Most likely it will be a further step forward from where Origami King was but still not quite where the first 3 games were.

The M&L remakes happened in 2017 and 2019 and since then the only non remake Mario RPG to come out, excluding the Rabbids crossovers, is Origami King - a game that I have yet to finish but based on what I can tell so far it has an original villain, good writing, and a decent plot, but is still severely limited by the character restrictions and by the paper literalism.

Now of course SMRPG and TTYD have all their original characters intact like Mallow and Goombella but ofc since they're remakes it wouldn't work if such characters had to be banned so I'm still not convinced that represents the restrictions being lifted from now on.

Mario games in general show a lot more creativity now than they did in the early-mid 2010s such as with the Poplins and Grape, but I'm still very unimpressed by Toad designs and by the refusal to properly bring back Toadsworth outside of remakes.

TTYD's art style is significantly more papery than the original and I recall the website engaging in paper literalism so I think that aspect of the series is likely to stay for the next instalment.

My hope is that the TTYD remake needs to sell well and needs to be positively received for both its story and characters and for its gameplay in hope that this inspires Nintendo to bring back those aspects of the series.
 
The thing that gets me about the RPGs is how they do not have the same stigma as Mario spinoffs. One observation I have made is how certain characters like Waluigi were looked down upon because they regularly appeared in spinoffs, with choice phrases like "stuck in spinoff hell" or "roster filler" and the like. Which are phrases you never see in any RPG even if they aren't what they used to be. Indeed, they are still viewed as superior compared to any non-RPG spinoff (including the Kart games).

In any case, as long as RPGs still use the same old regular characters like Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser (and the occasional Toad), it will be boring. The thing with characters that appear in an RPG is how they tend to be one-and-done, so while they seem more appealing in a characterisation point of view, we probably won't care for them because they are unlikely to reappear. On the other hand, characters like Daisy and Waluigi that reappear a lot can benefit from an RPG because it helps to develop their character. Indeed, Peach and Bowser have a lot of RPG appearances and awesome moments tied to them, so I think the RPGs helped to strengthen the case for making them appealing.

In other words: until RPGs start to use their regular characters like Donkey Kong or Daisy more, well, regularly, the RPGs would feel like it's going through the motions, even with the remakes because they just won't use their other regular characters. Even Yoshi being an RPG supporting character is surprisingly rare!

Thank you for reading.
 
Koopa con Carne said:
I'd argue Paper Mario is the only corner of this franchise to have actually undergone these restrictions to the fullest. Even during the supposed "sterile" spell of Mario games from 2011 to ~2013 (which tbh is an appropriate qualifier in comparison to what you see today), NSMB2, NSMBU, and Mario 3D Land still got new enemies and even at least one character (Nabbit). It's only Paper Mario that made a point to have Red Toads, Blue Toads, Yellow Toads, and Green Toads as NPCs during and after that period of time. I'd frame that as the developer taking to heart what Nintendo's IP supervisors were championing for the brand as a whole, or maybe even some weird creative self-flagellation that I don't personally understand.
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True. Aside from core mainline, many other different feature games beside sport /party, like Peach's Showtime, Luigi's Mansion and Treasure Tracker were all able to pull out original contents. For unknown weird reason, previous RPGs seem to fail to devote to an original theme for an independent story and that's weird.

If all these games were made to be themes for RPG titles (e.g. Paper Peach's Shwotime), that can definitely be a hyping news.

Koopa con Carne said:
(Some will bring up Paper Jam as an extension of these restrictions beyond the Paper Mario series, but its predecessor, Dream Team, a game with original characters and scenarios, was developed during the time Nintendo was supposedly reining in the Mario brand. Paper Jam was also followed by a bunch of Mario & Luigi remakes that were fairly faithful to the original material. I'd say that game is more of an exception.)
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So far M&L strictly focuses on the brothers as well as the core Super Mario contents. There were original characters, but as M&L are the only core party team, you don't really get to scout more party members (even as assists). The original contents mostly only serve as side dishes or just give a reason for M&L to start a new adventure.

For storytelling part fans are already fed up enough with the brotherhood with the five M&L games, also other games beside M&L (Super Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, the 2023 movie etc) they can all cover M&L's relationship and it's not exclusive to M&L. I'm very concerned that M&L hasn't really figured out how to do a story that is 100% exclusive to this subbrand or it has to retire for good.

I don't hate M&L, but if it returns one day it needs to add more diverse contents for the party. I really like the ideas of team fighting but you cannot expect gamers to ask for gameplay only. Especially the fighting system could had been in a better use if more characters were allowed to participate.
 
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Dorayakiss said:
For storytelling part fans are already fed up enough with the brotherhood with the five M&L games, also other games beside M&L (Super Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, the 2023 movie etc) they can all cover M&L's relationship and it's not exclusive to M&L. I'm very concerned that M&L hasn't really figured out how to do a story that is 100% exclusive to this subbrand or it has to retire for good.
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never heard that take before, people were more so bummed with paper jam being based on sticker star paper mario instead of the original trilogy. every mario and luigi game (except for bowser's inside story" did something unique with mario and luigi's relationship. superstar saga established the bond, partners in time made them adoptive parents of their past selves, dream team explored luigi mentally, and paper jam gave the party an additional mario. m&l is mainly known for the brother stuff so it'd be kinda weird to remove it. it is also why i find bowser's inside story the weakest of the 5 games because it focuses more on bowser than the titular brothers.

super paper mario didn't cover mario and luigi's relationship in the slightest tbh. mr L and mario shared no connections together so the potentially cool idea of brother fighting brother was just... never there. he's a comedic character, not a serious or angsty one.
 
Dorayakiss said:
For storytelling part fans are already fed up enough with the brotherhood with the five M&L games, also other games beside M&L (Super Paper Mario, Luigi's Mansion, the 2023 movie etc) they can all cover M&L's relationship and it's not exclusive to M&L. I'm very concerned that M&L hasn't really figured out how to do a story that is 100% exclusive to this subbrand or it has to retire for good.
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The brother stuff defines Mario & Luigi. It's in the literal title. It's like requesting Mario Galaxy to not take place in outer space. It's like complaining there's too much partying in Mario Party.

Heck it's like requesting Paper Mario to have no paper invo-

Wait what was that?
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
Heck it's like requesting Paper Mario to have no paper invo-

Wait what was that?
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I'm not requesting that Paper Mario shouldn't involve paper at all, I just don't want it to be as exaggerated/focused on as it is in the most recent 3 Paper Mario games, and I preferred it when it was, outside of 4th wall breaks, merely how the world is presented to the player rather than treated as a canon property of the universe that characters are self-aware of.

Consider TTYD's black chest curses - in-universe, it is an unnatural curse that allows Mario's body to do things it normally can't, but to us it's presented as his body folding or twisting. That's exactly how I want the series to handle the paperiness. I interpret this as proof that TTYD takes place in the same universe as everything else, because if Mario was a sheet of paper in-universe then he'd already be able to slip through the bars, as we see Paper Peach do in Paper Jam.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
The brother stuff defines Mario & Luigi. It's in the literal title.
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I mean that'd echo my point of whether it has the need to continue.

Either way, I think it can of course start a brand new theme or manage to have multiple focuses beside Mario bros. Bowser was the focus in third title and side stories do give some different viewpoints. We just want that spirit to continue with more different characters.

Veneer said:
didn't cover mario and luigi's relationship in the slightest tbh.
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You're not wrong. But within RPGs, I'm sure the brotherhood still has enough screentime when you never get to understand Luigi's relationships with Donkey Kong, Daisy and Wario bros in a story.
 
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One day I hope people will realize the rpgs are not some kind of special "more creative than everything else" thing that is overlooked like a sad puppy in a pound.
 
Koopa con Carne said:
Please don't take this the wrong way, but whenever you enter an RPG-related discussion I can't help but picture an audience cheering and clapping like when Kramer barges onto the stage
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Is that good or bad?
 
i honestly have no idea why i even thought that, it just feels like it fits and it's funny. which would make it good i guess. perhaps it's your tendency to deviate from the norm in these discussions, where everyone, including myself, is "modern Mario RPG bad" whereas you show a more laid-back attitude on the subject. and going against the norm is the first step to becoming the breakout character of the show!
 
Well thats been me for years, always that guy who has the unpopular but also popular opinions.

I used to be more...aggressive about it but I'm trying to reign it in.
 
Whittle said:
Variety in opinions is good. Discussions would be boring af if everyone agreed on everything.
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Tell that to the fuckheads down in reddit.

OT

The series god willing will be back in fans good graces with thousand year door and hopefully the 64 paper mario game gets ported.
 
God I hope so. I personally do think the RPGs and their flavor of characters is uniquely special. They appeal to me very strongly, so I want to see them thrive and Nintendo to use what they introduce in other games.

Nintendo apparently is starting to put out surveys about the RPGs that have questions specifically addressing elements like original characters, different takes on existing characters, etc. I hope I get it so I can make my voice heard.
 
Ah ok, if VGC corroborated it then I'll believe it. Wish I got this survey lol I would've loved to fill it out. Fuck it here's what I would've put if I received it

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The "you may only choose 5" questions were really hard cause I liked a lot of different things
 
We haven't had a NEW Mario & Luigi game in 8 years! Because of Alphadream going bankrupt, no new games were created. Is this hope for a revival in the series?
 
I can see them taking elements from them. I'm not sure if they'll take that huge step of bringing in a lot of new species and characters.
 
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