Your "head anti-canons"

[winstein]

EDIT: "Established in-universe fact/explanation" replaces the word "lore" to better explain what I am talking about.
EDIT 2: I have thought of a better term: "head anti-canon". It's unrefined as a term, but I feel it works in this context.

The Mario world has a whole lot of lore, by virtue of how many games there are within the series. It could be memorable things like how Baby Mario and Baby Luigi are delivered by a stork to their parents, or obscure stuff like Wario stealing Koopa Troopa's kart in regards to how Wario is playable in Mario Kart 64 and not Koopa Troopa how in Super Mario Bros. the indestructible blocks are transformed Toads.

Even with that, there are some things we might not necessarily agree on. The most famous case is the Koopalings, where it was established in Western territories that they are Bowser's children, but later on Miyamoto had affirmed that they're not quite his children, at least in the biological sense. Instead, Bowser Jr. is the only child of Bowser. Despite this, not every fan subscribed to this change, or re-clarification as I understood it. Those fans are adamant about the Koopalings being Bowser's children and it's very unlikely that it would change their stance, though to be fair this was prevalent in the past so the paradigm shift would be too much.

To start this topic off, here's something that I don't support: the concept of Star Children. Yoshi's Island DS introduced the idea that there are seven Star Children, and they are baby versions of major Mario characters: Mario, Luigi, Peach, Donkey Kong (modern), Wario, Yoshi and Bowser. The reason I didn't quite like the idea is:

• The implication that a person can only be special from birth, which struck me as disingenuous because I thought that other characters outside the seven are special in their own way. I have no doubt that they were chosen because the adult counterparts are proven to be characters that are well-liked, and each of them had a game under their name (except Bowser, but it's made up by the fact that he's a recurring villain).
• The game itself doesn't put the supposedly Star Children into action even though they are supposed to be special. As far as I know, Baby Luigi is not playable!
• This is an assumption of mine, but I felt that they created Baby Wario just to fill in a Star Child gap, so in other words I think Baby Wario is pretty unnecessary, and this is supported by how Baby Wario never appeared in another game (unlike the rest of the babies).

Thank you for reading.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

Mario is, by design, has no real lore. It's very deliberate that Nintendo gave it no canon. The lore's only purpose is to establish some sort of context for the games, so they're not some nonsense meaningless platforming by random people in nonsense land. So for the small amount of whatever you call lore, it's hard to accept what's "happened" or not.

I do suppose the only thing that's been consistently ignored is the non games media, Mario edutainment, and Hotel Mario, so those are probably the only pieces of lore I can outright reject. But for everything else, it's all ambiguous.

The Star Children is pointless drivel and adds practically nothing to character qualities, so I do think it can be safely ignored.

There has been confusion on Mario's occupation, but even of Nintendo confirmed that he's no longer a plumber, I still cling to the notion that he is an active plumber. Just look at the beginning of Super Mario 3D World...

 

[winstein]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

Mario is, by design, has no real lore. It's very deliberate that Nintendo gave it no canon. The lore's only purpose is to establish some sort of context for the games, so they're not some nonsense meaningless platforming by random people in nonsense land. So for the small amount of whatever you call lore, it's hard to accept what's "happened" or not.

I do suppose the only thing that's been consistently ignored is the non games media, Mario edutainment, and Hotel Mario, so those are probably the only pieces of lore I can outright reject. But for everything else, it's all ambiguous.

The Star Children is pointless drivel and adds practically nothing to character qualities, so I do think it can be safely ignored.

There has been confusion on Mario's occupation, but even of Nintendo confirmed that he's no longer a plumber, I still cling to the notion that he is an active plumber. Just look at the beginning of Super Mario 3D World...

I've struggled to come up with a word to use for this topic, because what I mean is an established in-universe fact or explanation, like the explanation of how the indestructible blocks are transformed Toads, or the aforementioned Koopalings part. I settled for "lore" because it's like folklore where there are explanations on how characters/places/events are a certain way in its universe, as well as unexplained quirks that are interesting to know.

Thank you for reading.

 

[Xiahou Ba]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

• The game itself doesn't put the supposedly Star Children into action even though they are supposed to be special. As far as I know, Baby Luigi is not playable!

Fuck

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

I see, though I do hope I've contributed to the topic by pointing out that at least no one is losing sleep that Mario and Luigi have been once scammed by Friendly Floyd.

I also am not sure how to fit the humans in Mario Tennis and Mario Golf into the Mario World, but some do look like they fit in the world at least, or just resemble existing Mario characters like Azalea.

By the way, the Wario stealing Koopa's kart is a myth. There are no sources on this whatsoever. The original citation, the Mario Kart 64 instruction booklet, does not mention it. The Mario Kart 64 players guide has no mention. Nintendo Power does not appear to mention it in any of its issues. If someone says I'm wrong, there should be evidence.

 

[Glowsquid]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

everything to do with the pixl war in super paper mario


Everything.

 

[MnSG]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

I don't trust the theories involving Rosalina's family. She's not related to any of the Mario Bros., nor Peach.

If anything, Rosalina was born long before any of them ever existed; this also means that Bowser didn't exist during Rosalina's childhood.

 

[Koops]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

Any non-RPG lore that tries to go way deeper than it should.

 

[Mcmadness]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

Any non-RPG lore that tries to go way deeper than it should.

Anything that tries to go way deeper in general I'd say.

 

[Koops]

Re: Lore in Games that you Don't Support

Yeah I could've phrased that better I guess.

What I basically meant was that I'd be more forgiving for RPGs, hence why I’m not particularly bothered by SPM's plot (mainly because when I first played it I was a kid who could get easily impressed). But yeah, any lore shpuldn't be deeper than it should. I've said it before, but the deepness that people want to see in Paper Mario's story again is something I would rather have in other series like Zelda or Fire Emblem. Now Zelda itself too kinda should focus more on the ongoing adventure more than lore, but I think this kind of lore works mostly for FE, since it's actually got multiple nations and continents in games so it would be important to learn about them before knowing what's going on between who and why.

So yeah, Mario should stay simple. Can't fix what ain't broken, you might end up making it worse.