Mario Kart 8 / Mario Kart 8 Deluxe
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Starlight24
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Re: Mario Kart 8
Actually they would be if they are exactly like in MK8 as the game would totally make you have 2 coins, is just that easy.
Actually they would be if they are exactly like in MK8 as the game would totally make you have 2 coins, is just that easy.
Anser
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Re: Mario Kart 8
While I don't have anything against Petey Piranha, he has only been in one Mario Kart game, so I'd replace him with at least one newcomer. Magikoopa, maybe? Since he was planned to appear in Mario Kart 64? Or maybe E. Gadd, who was supposed to appear in Mario Kart DS. I don't know.
Besides, Petey is huge... He covers way too much screen.
GalacticPetey said:
While I don't have anything against Petey Piranha, he has only been in one Mario Kart game, so I'd replace him with at least one newcomer. Magikoopa, maybe? Since he was planned to appear in Mario Kart 64? Or maybe E. Gadd, who was supposed to appear in Mario Kart DS. I don't know.
Besides, Petey is huge... He covers way too much screen.
Princess Céline
It's teatime!
Re: Mario Kart 8
Petey was planned to be in Mario Kart Wii, but was cut for unknown reasons. I've also never had much of a problem with Petey covering the screen because of his size, because I've experienced worse screen-covering than that.
Anser said:
Petey was planned to be in Mario Kart Wii, but was cut for unknown reasons. I've also never had much of a problem with Petey covering the screen because of his size, because I've experienced worse screen-covering than that.
Princess Céline
It's teatime!
Re: Mario Kart 8
I honestly find King Boo more distracting than Petey when I'm not using Petey, because King Boo leans further to the left and right than Petey does when I'm drifting.
MnSG said:
I honestly find King Boo more distracting than Petey when I'm not using Petey, because King Boo leans further to the left and right than Petey does when I'm drifting.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Re: Mario Kart 8
I'll admit, adding Petey was my own personal bias. I recognize he is the least likely out of everyone on that list. IIRC an icon for Kamek was found in the game files. He's a likely addition. I know the director did express interest in having King Boo, Diddy, Junior, and Dry Bones. So those four plus Kamek and Birdo make the most sense I think.Anser said:
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Re: Mario Kart 8
I like how drastic people think holding two items is going to change the gameplay.
It's not. The same item balance issues will be there, the same dreaded coin item frequencies with 1st having a one in two chance of receiving it. You have more options yes, but that's provided the item system doesn't screw you over first.
I like how drastic people think holding two items is going to change the gameplay.
It's not. The same item balance issues will be there, the same dreaded coin item frequencies with 1st having a one in two chance of receiving it. You have more options yes, but that's provided the item system doesn't screw you over first.
Re: Mario Kart 8
You can hold triple reds in one slot and receive constant mushrooms!
Baby Luigi said:
You can hold triple reds in one slot and receive constant mushrooms!
Starlight24
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Re: Mario Kart 8
Petey was most likely cut because , just like Waluigi in MK7, he was not priority.
And this is funny because the models are from MKDD. And they actually prefered to do a new model of Rosalina and Funky Kong instead of bringing Petey back.
Paratroopa was ditched too , probably in favor of Dry Bones and Baby Daisy.
I think Petey is that one character that was only relevant in his debut era , which was the GCN.
After that he managed to appear in some games later but has slowly fading away , and then its now returning but as a boss.
Petey was most likely cut because , just like Waluigi in MK7, he was not priority.
And this is funny because the models are from MKDD. And they actually prefered to do a new model of Rosalina and Funky Kong instead of bringing Petey back.
Paratroopa was ditched too , probably in favor of Dry Bones and Baby Daisy.
I think Petey is that one character that was only relevant in his debut era , which was the GCN.
After that he managed to appear in some games later but has slowly fading away , and then its now returning but as a boss.
Princess Céline
It's teatime!
Re: Mario Kart 8
You may want to take a look at this, which I found in this thread.
Swiftie_Luma said:
You may want to take a look at this, which I found in this thread.
Starlight24
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Re: Mario Kart 8
That's why i said he was not priority.
How come they were so worried to add DK or Bowser and yet , still keep Rosalina and add the Honey Queen and Lakitu but not Waluigi?
It is pretty accepted that those last 2 characters would have been more ''expendable'' than Waluigi , but they still cut him.
That's why i said he was not priority.
How come they were so worried to add DK or Bowser and yet , still keep Rosalina and add the Honey Queen and Lakitu but not Waluigi?
It is pretty accepted that those last 2 characters would have been more ''expendable'' than Waluigi , but they still cut him.
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Re: Mario Kart 8
Maybe they wanted new additions to keep Mario Kart interesting. Funny how they still kept Rosalina; she even looks like total crap in this game.
Maybe they wanted new additions to keep Mario Kart interesting. Funny how they still kept Rosalina; she even looks like total crap in this game.
Starlight24
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Re: Mario Kart 8
Mind You , the RS model in MK7 is the best thing that could happen to me , specially the low poly one.
The shading effect in MK7 also prevents all the characters to look pretty much like they do when in a 3D model program.
Mind You , the RS model in MK7 is the best thing that could happen to me , specially the low poly one.
The shading effect in MK7 also prevents all the characters to look pretty much like they do when in a 3D model program.
Re: Mario Kart 8
I even have visual anecdotes: here's the Blue Shell
Maybe I'm a bit near the 1st, but the game doesn't know it. The result?
And before saying that with position-based systems you never had any problems with making a comeback, look here:
And this was with double items.
If Mario Kart 8 item system doesn't work, I think it's due to many different causes, and the distance-based part likely doesn't work because, as the PRIMA guide revealed, these distributions were probably meant for a position-based system and then recycled using distances that more often than not don't work. In fact, using item probability distributions with only one item, it has been discovered that the time constraints present in MK7 for obtaining the items are still there: you cannot get triple Red shells, Lightning or Bullet Bill in the first 15 seconds, and you can get a Lighting only 30 seconds after one has been obtained (more than one player can obtain it at the same time, though). Same for the Blue Shell. Every time you try to obtain a non-allowed item, you get other items or, if there are none, (like in the cases tested), a Coin item. If the system was distance-based from the beginning, well-thought distances and probabilities would have done the job and especially the inital 15 seconds would have been useless, but at this point it is becoming more and more evident that the item system at the beginning was going to just be MK7 one with new items (in fact, the order of the items in the in-game tables is the same, with two MK7-specific items, Super Leaf and Lucky 7, being replaced, Test3 and Test4 now being actual items and the Crazy 8 being added at the end) and then changed at the last moment for unknown reasons. And, as expected, last-minute changes don't work beautifully.
So don't judge the idea of being distance-based bad just because Mario Kart 8 doesn't work and gives you Triple Red shells at 400 units of distance (less than a second even in 150cc's typical speed of 8 units/frame!), Crazy 8 at 1000 units (well, at least it's around two seconds in 150cc, never mind 200cc...), Blue Shell at 3300 units (around 7 seconds in 150cc) and Lightning at 5500 units (around 11 seconds, but only in 150cc...) and even has distributions in which triple items coexist with single ones and in general there is a lack of balance in the effectiveness of the items received within the same distribution, making the races more based on RNG than they should be (I got a Coin and the player in front of me Triple Red Shells!).
If anything, I like the idea of a system in which I cannot get overpowered items such as Lightning or Bullet Bill right behind the 1st just because I'm 12th. Or, where obtaining a Lightning, Bullet Bill or Blue Shell in 2nd place means that, well, I'm going to end the race in 2nd place unless the frontrunner screws up badly. I'm not even deterred by the idea of getting a Green Shell or a Banana in 12th place, if I'm anyway near the frontrunner and all the players in front of me get those items as well. Although, with a proper distance-based system, it might be possible to give slightly more powerful but not overpowered items to the people who are a little behind without giving away free wins because RNG rulez.
Unfortunately, in my opinion MK8's implementation of a distance-based system was poorly made, but I now really like the idea and would like to see it propely implemented before making a final judgement on it.
I'll be honest: I don't agree with distance-based being detrimental. I anything, getting a Blue Shell at the first item box in Mario Kart: Double Dash!! was broken as well. Or getting three Red Shells and maybe an additional one in 1st place. Or the Lightning at a ridiculously low distance from the 1st in MK64, because you can get it in 2nd place and there's no distance table that prevents you from doing so. And those games had a position-based system.Cirdec said:
I even have visual anecdotes: here's the Blue Shell
Maybe I'm a bit near the 1st, but the game doesn't know it. The result?
And before saying that with position-based systems you never had any problems with making a comeback, look here:
And this was with double items.
If Mario Kart 8 item system doesn't work, I think it's due to many different causes, and the distance-based part likely doesn't work because, as the PRIMA guide revealed, these distributions were probably meant for a position-based system and then recycled using distances that more often than not don't work. In fact, using item probability distributions with only one item, it has been discovered that the time constraints present in MK7 for obtaining the items are still there: you cannot get triple Red shells, Lightning or Bullet Bill in the first 15 seconds, and you can get a Lighting only 30 seconds after one has been obtained (more than one player can obtain it at the same time, though). Same for the Blue Shell. Every time you try to obtain a non-allowed item, you get other items or, if there are none, (like in the cases tested), a Coin item. If the system was distance-based from the beginning, well-thought distances and probabilities would have done the job and especially the inital 15 seconds would have been useless, but at this point it is becoming more and more evident that the item system at the beginning was going to just be MK7 one with new items (in fact, the order of the items in the in-game tables is the same, with two MK7-specific items, Super Leaf and Lucky 7, being replaced, Test3 and Test4 now being actual items and the Crazy 8 being added at the end) and then changed at the last moment for unknown reasons. And, as expected, last-minute changes don't work beautifully.
So don't judge the idea of being distance-based bad just because Mario Kart 8 doesn't work and gives you Triple Red shells at 400 units of distance (less than a second even in 150cc's typical speed of 8 units/frame!), Crazy 8 at 1000 units (well, at least it's around two seconds in 150cc, never mind 200cc...), Blue Shell at 3300 units (around 7 seconds in 150cc) and Lightning at 5500 units (around 11 seconds, but only in 150cc...) and even has distributions in which triple items coexist with single ones and in general there is a lack of balance in the effectiveness of the items received within the same distribution, making the races more based on RNG than they should be (I got a Coin and the player in front of me Triple Red Shells!).
If anything, I like the idea of a system in which I cannot get overpowered items such as Lightning or Bullet Bill right behind the 1st just because I'm 12th. Or, where obtaining a Lightning, Bullet Bill or Blue Shell in 2nd place means that, well, I'm going to end the race in 2nd place unless the frontrunner screws up badly. I'm not even deterred by the idea of getting a Green Shell or a Banana in 12th place, if I'm anyway near the frontrunner and all the players in front of me get those items as well. Although, with a proper distance-based system, it might be possible to give slightly more powerful but not overpowered items to the people who are a little behind without giving away free wins because RNG rulez.
Unfortunately, in my opinion MK8's implementation of a distance-based system was poorly made, but I now really like the idea and would like to see it propely implemented before making a final judgement on it.
Starlight24
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Re: Mario Kart 8
I wouldnt have a problem with 8 item distribution if
A) There was still 2 items per racer considering they nerfed all the boost items and added the coin.
B) Well , the fact that all the offensive items are totally weak , mostly speaking for returning items.
Ok , the Blue Shell was insane in Wii , but 7 clearly solved this problem , meanwhile in 8 it basically has the same effect as slipping into a Banana and that makes no sense,
The Star was nerfed to no end , i don't understand why this was done this way.
And the Bullet Bill is actually frequent enough to have 2 people at the same time having one , that's not really balanced at all.
I would have liked that the item system stayed the same as 7 , as that's one of the things the game actually did better than other entries.
I wouldnt have a problem with 8 item distribution if
A) There was still 2 items per racer considering they nerfed all the boost items and added the coin.
B) Well , the fact that all the offensive items are totally weak , mostly speaking for returning items.
Ok , the Blue Shell was insane in Wii , but 7 clearly solved this problem , meanwhile in 8 it basically has the same effect as slipping into a Banana and that makes no sense,
The Star was nerfed to no end , i don't understand why this was done this way.
And the Bullet Bill is actually frequent enough to have 2 people at the same time having one , that's not really balanced at all.
I would have liked that the item system stayed the same as 7 , as that's one of the things the game actually did better than other entries.
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Re: Mario Kart 8
I don't mind a distance-based system in Mario Kart 8. It sucks to be in 2nd, it really does. Having more powerful items as you fall behind makes up for the shit you go through from first place's turds littered on your face and 3rd-12th place vomits shooting from behind. It doesn't put a huge emphasis on scoring an early lead, as least not as much as the previous games.
I don't mind a distance-based system in Mario Kart 8. It sucks to be in 2nd, it really does. Having more powerful items as you fall behind makes up for the shit you go through from first place's turds littered on your face and 3rd-12th place vomits shooting from behind. It doesn't put a huge emphasis on scoring an early lead, as least not as much as the previous games.
Re: Mario Kart 8
Looking at the table above, I would make the probabilities for Lightning and Blue Shell lower. Mario Kart 8 has them even lower (2.5% and 7.5% in All Items) and still uses the around 30 seconds limiter after one of them is obtained. I'm pretty sure MK7 does as well, and I suspect this is one of the reasons why it is often considered a position-based system that works well, beside the double items thanks to dragging and the possibly well-thought item probability distributions.
To be fair, there are many fixes for the "coins in 12th" that can be done even without removing the distance-basedness, like putting a mild 2nd distribution immediately behind the 1st without Coin item or, well, getting rid of the Coin item altogether...MnSG said:Getting a coin in 12th place is NOT okay though. A system like the one below would feel more tolerable to have.
Looking at the table above, I would make the probabilities for Lightning and Blue Shell lower. Mario Kart 8 has them even lower (2.5% and 7.5% in All Items) and still uses the around 30 seconds limiter after one of them is obtained. I'm pretty sure MK7 does as well, and I suspect this is one of the reasons why it is often considered a position-based system that works well, beside the double items thanks to dragging and the possibly well-thought item probability distributions.
MnSG
Cosmic Beauty
Re: Mario Kart 8
I did use that image for a different thread, so it's quite old. I'm just saying that if you're that one player who's dead last, you should be guaranteed to get a strong item, whether it's a Golden Mushroom, Star, Bullet Bill, or Lightning. Getting a Coin, Green Shell, or even a Blooper while in 12th place is very illogical for a human player.
Of course, there would be a 30 second delay before players can start acquiring a Bullet Bill or Lightning.
As for getting a Super Mushroom in 1st place, while it won't protect you against items, it would at least enable the leading racer to still have a chance to use the off-road shortcuts. Of course, you'd have much better odds getting a Banana or Green Shell most of the time.
Mister Wu said:
I did use that image for a different thread, so it's quite old. I'm just saying that if you're that one player who's dead last, you should be guaranteed to get a strong item, whether it's a Golden Mushroom, Star, Bullet Bill, or Lightning. Getting a Coin, Green Shell, or even a Blooper while in 12th place is very illogical for a human player.
Of course, there would be a 30 second delay before players can start acquiring a Bullet Bill or Lightning.
As for getting a Super Mushroom in 1st place, while it won't protect you against items, it would at least enable the leading racer to still have a chance to use the off-road shortcuts. Of course, you'd have much better odds getting a Banana or Green Shell most of the time.
Re: Mario Kart 8
What I liked about distance-basedness is exactly that: at the beginning someone must be 12th, but this doesn't mean they must get an extremely powerful item because of that, as they are very near the 1st. Same thing if a cluster happens during the race, and the 1st happens to be just slightly ahead of the 12th. The 15 seconds initial limiter only fixes the case of the first item boxes, not all the others. Again, don't think Mario Kart 8 is an appropriate example of distance-basedness and all distance-based systems must work like MK8, I actually think they shouldn't work at all like that.
Define dead last, though.MnSG said:
What I liked about distance-basedness is exactly that: at the beginning someone must be 12th, but this doesn't mean they must get an extremely powerful item because of that, as they are very near the 1st. Same thing if a cluster happens during the race, and the 1st happens to be just slightly ahead of the 12th. The 15 seconds initial limiter only fixes the case of the first item boxes, not all the others. Again, don't think Mario Kart 8 is an appropriate example of distance-basedness and all distance-based systems must work like MK8, I actually think they shouldn't work at all like that.