Why do people hate Luigi's Mansion?

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
Dark Moon is very underrated.
I mean, LM2 gets a lot of praise, especially from critics. It's just that LM2 has a very different feel and format from the original, so it's somewhat controversial with the series fanbase. Not much different from the whole thing with Paper Mario and Sticker Star, though that's on a somewhat larger scale due to having a much larger fanbase.
 

Glowsquid

Shine Sprite
Forum Moderator
Wiki Bureaucrat
Core 'Shroom Staff
I don't think LM was hated by any particularly large segment and I don't know why a 7 years old thread was bumped but it gives me another opportunity to make fun of that bizarre video review that bash the OG game due to the reviewer's creative misinterpretation that Luigi's Mansion is a "bad Metroidvania" game instead of a linear score attack game
 

Brawl Mario

Super Smash Bros.'s most fearsome plumber
Why are all of these "resurrected" threads exactly from 2012?

Also I've barely seen anyone talk about Luigi's Mansion 3 after it got released lol.
It's probably this forum losing activity over time and me and my sister not really finishing the game. I did talk quite a bit about it such as enjoying looting the kidnapped characters' rooms.

Not much different from the whole thing with Paper Mario and Sticker Star, though that's on a somewhat larger scale due to having a much larger fanbase.
Dark Moon received nowhere near the vitroil Sticker Star got. Most criticism probably expressed more of a "I like Dark Moon but I like the non mission exploring structure of the first one more as well as the atmosphere."
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
Dark Moon received nowhere near the vitroil Sticker Star got. Most criticism probably expressed more of a "I like Dark Moon but I like the non mission exploring structure of the first one more as well as the atmosphere."
That's not what I meant, I was just referring to the fact that any gameplay change in a series is going to be controversial, and used Sticker Star as an example because it's a controversy everyone knows about largely due to the same reasons--just on a much larger scale. When a series changes its game structure and format, people will always, always prefer the first style. I could also have used Mario USA, Mario Sunshine, Mario Party 9, Smash Brawl, Majora's Mask, Kirby 3 and 64. It's the same principle.

Whether or not those games are actually better than the originals is entirely subjective. But in any series with two different gameplay structures, there's always a prejudice against the second one. Dark Moon falls in the same category.
 

Brawl Mario

Super Smash Bros.'s most fearsome plumber
Then wouldn't that mean any new game at all, for being not the original (this includes being too close to the original) is going to fall into some controversy. Games that end up being same over generations also get complaints. People were probably split between Galaxy and Odyssey. I'm being pedantic probably, but if I were to compare between Dark Moon and Sticker Star, I'd do it only very superficially. I didn't read the post like that, more of "it's somewhat less angry because the fanbase is smaller" and "it's not different."
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
What can I say. People are never satisfied.

Heck, some of those games I mentioned came after lots of alleged "series stagnation". Mario Party 9 was criticized for being different by the same people who criticized Mario Party 8 (or any Mario Party after 3, if not even before that) for not being different. Mario 2 is a title given to both "a game too similar to warrant a '2'" and "a game too different to be called 'Mario'". Paper Mario, a series criticized for its inability to decide on a consistent gameplay format, shares much of its fanbase with Mario & Luigi, a series that's criticized for keeping one.

Makes you wonder what these fans actually want.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
What can I say. People are never satisfied.

Heck, some of those games I mentioned came after lots of alleged "series stagnation". Mario Party 9 was criticized for being different by the same people who criticized Mario Party 8 (or any Mario Party after 3, if not even before that) for not being different. Mario 2 is a title given to both "a game too similar to warrant a '2'" and "a game too different to be called 'Mario'". Paper Mario, a series criticized for its inability to decide on a consistent gameplay format, shares much of its fanbase with Mario & Luigi, a series that's criticized for keeping one.

Makes you wonder what these fans actually want.
Uh, mate, a lot of the criticisms on new mechanics is centered on the execution of said mechanics rather than because they're new. I'm one of Mario Party 9's harshest critics, being a lifelong Mario Party fan, and I was wanting to see the car work out, but it simply did nothing for me, since it made the game so heavily reliant on the last guy who moved, which was also dice-block determined, the mini-star system was much worse than 20 coins for a star and also was a symptom of "everyone moves along now" and they took out interesting items such as orbs and items from the first four games. Not to mention the decreased focus on minigames and the extremely short length of the boards. If a new mechanic is seen as inferior to an older one, it will be criticized for its inferior elements rather than because they innovated.

In addition, fanbases are not a hivemind. It's composed of a lot of people, all who have differing opinions on each other which may appear contradictory but actually really aren't. Usually, there's much more nuance behind an opinion that states "it's the same game over again" and "it's different so it sucks".
 

Doomhiker

Bob-omb
Wiki Patroller
Core 'Shroom Staff
What can I say. People are never satisfied.

Heck, some of those games I mentioned came after lots of alleged "series stagnation". Mario Party 9 was criticized for being different by the same people who criticized Mario Party 8 (or any Mario Party after 3, if not even before that) for not being different. Mario 2 is a title given to both "a game too similar to warrant a '2'" and "a game too different to be called 'Mario'". Paper Mario, a series criticized for its inability to decide on a consistent gameplay format, shares much of its fanbase with Mario & Luigi, a series that's criticized for keeping one.

Makes you wonder what these fans actually want.
This post seems to assume that all people have an opinion for the same reason, that all fans have the same wants, and that wanting something new means you have to like the new thing. That's simply not the case. Opinions are nuanced and diverse, you can criticize something new for reasons outside of it being new, even if you wanting the series to do something new, as just because something is new doesn't mean it's done well. Like, even if Sticker Star was the first Paper Mario game I would still dislike it for how many of its mechanics are, in my opinion, poorly executed.

To give another example, the NSMB series is repetitive and should be more creative. However, that doesn't mean I think it can do anything and get away with it. If the next game, say, had a mechanic where a random effect activated when you entered a level, and some of the effects made the game unbearable, such as if an effect slowed down movement of the playable character considerably, I would still criticize it for being a tacked on and unfun mechanic. That wouldn't make me a hypocrite, though. Me wanting the series to do something new doesn't mean I have to agree and like everything it does which is different.

EDIT: As Baby Luigi mentioned, MP9 was criticized not because it was new, but because the thing it did different were worst than before and just poorly done. If the new thing it take were done better to the level of being as fun as the previous games, not worse, than I'm sure it would've been better received (obviously some people would prefer the older stuff, which is fine). As for Paper Mario/M&L, you can have consistent gameplay while still avoiding being repetitive. Paper Mario for many goes too far on the "change everything all the time" side, while M&L for many is too far on the other. IMO, you need a balance between new ideas and consistent quality.
 
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Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
To give another example, the NSMB series is repetitive and should be more creative. However, that doesn't mean I think it can do anything and get away with it. If the next game, say, had a mechanic where a random effect activated when you entered a level, and some of the effects made the game unbearable, such as if an effect slowed down movement of the playable character considerably, I would still criticize it for being a tacked on and unfun mechanic. That wouldn't make me a hypocrite, though. Me wanting the series to do something new doesn't mean I have to agree and like everything it does which is different.
Just take a quick look at the Sonic franchise which is the best example to show what NOT to do with Mario games.
 

Doomhiker

Bob-omb
Wiki Patroller
Core 'Shroom Staff
I mean, if you want example of games which both did something different well and were received well, just look at Super Mario Odyssey or Breath of the Wild. If you want something new to be done then you would want it to still be well done, wouldn't you?
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Power Star
Awards Committee
Uh, mate, a lot of the criticisms on new mechanics is centered on the execution of said mechanics rather than because they're new. I'm one of Mario Party 9's harshest critics, being a lifelong Mario Party fan, and I was wanting to see the car work out, but it simply did nothing for me, since it made the game so heavily reliant on the last guy who moved, which was also dice-block determined, the mini-star system was much worse than 20 coins for a star and also was a symptom of "everyone moves along now" and they took out interesting items such as orbs and items from the first four games. Not to mention the decreased focus on minigames and the extremely short length of the boards. If a new mechanic is seen as inferior to an older one, it will be criticized for its inferior elements rather than because they innovated.

In addition, fanbases are not a hivemind. It's composed of a lot of people, all who have differing opinions on each other which may appear contradictory but actually really aren't. Usually, there's much more nuance behind an opinion that states "it's the same game over again" and "it's different so it sucks".
I totally get that. Personally, I don't really care for Mario USA and vastly prefer Lost Levels (which isn't stagnant in any sense of the word), I like Mario Parties 9 and 10 but prefer the old style, and I can at least understand some of the complaints against Sticker Star (it's not the most polished game out there in terms of gameplay, although I'll never understand why people consider this a downgrade from SPM's abysmal plot).

It's just that people almost always prefer the first game they played in a series, and are disappointed when the next game is different. You see a resurgence of the sequel's popularity when the people who grew up with the sequel start going online--consider the reputations of games like Majora's Mask, Kirby's Epic Yarn, Mario Sunshine, and even Luigi's Mansion at launch compared to now. Games that were once reviled by their respective fanbases but are now hailed as some of the best installments. It's not that the original is inherently better or worse--people will always have their preferences, and some innovations can indeed be more polished than others--it's just that sometimes, it takes time for a sequel to be judged on its own merits.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
Well, even then, that's not necessarily true. For example, the first Sonic game I've played was Sonic Adventure 2 Battle, then I played Sonic 1, and then a little bit of Sonic 2. I've really enjoyed Sonic 2, though I haven't played it enough to have a full opinion on that, but I can definitely see why the fans love 2 so much. And I have yet to play 3.

But yeah, generally, first games you play in a series do leave a very powerful impression on you that's hard to shake off when you go on to the next game. It's probably a reason Yoshi's Island doesn't really thrill me all that much, having played DS first and me finding it very very mediocre.
 

Splashmouse

Lego Mario's pal
Wait what some people actually prefer LM1 over Dark Moon? That's hilarious. Everything I had issue with in 1 was addressed in DM.

LM1 flaws:
-Too small amount of stages, not enough themes to explore.
-No platforming.

Ok that's about it actually..

And then LMDM went the extra mile and added something I hadn't even considered, more cinematics. I love it.

The only complaint I have on DM is the removal of human ghosts, but I guess they had their in-universe explanation for that.
 

Bob Craples

2 Cool 4 School
The problem people have with Dark Moon is that it's mission based, it's not non-linear like the original. But it's only like that cause it was on the 3DS, and the mission based gameplay complements the "pick up and play" thing. All that said, I really like the first two Luigi's Mansion games. (I haven't played 3 yet.)
 
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Splashmouse

Lego Mario's pal
I've played through LM1 plenty of times, it's very linear, it's pseudo-open world.
To put in retrospect, do we consider SMB3 open world for having different order of paths to choose from?

When I hear non-linear, I expect different outcomes for my choices.
But in the LM series, no matter which order of rooms you go into, it's the same results.

LM:Dm is just as open world as 1 tbh, all you have to do is trail off course from your mission. Not much reward too it though, other than the gems & boo.
Collecting the gems certainly felt "open world", in the way LM1 purists are thinking of it.
Buut, that's in part why the Infiltration missions are there. You unlocked the whole mansion and can go wherever you want, and every time you play Infiltration the ghost locations & ghosts will be different. Good way for attaining gold if you still need the upgrades.
 
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Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
One thing I didn't like about Dark Moon was being graded on my performance. I don't like games that do that.
 
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