What's your take on NSMB "Yellow/Blue Toad" routine?

Well, we've gone through quite a long time with the use of Yellow/Blue Toad in various NSMB mainline games. Now I'm curious, what was you guys' take on them back in early Wii era? And do your opinions remain the same today?

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I think the major complaint was not allowing fans to choose the "classic" Toad as part of the default, furthermore, there are some other available toad characters to expand the options, but they were all rejected.

On that basis, Nintendo usually regard Yellow/Blue as the duplicate of generic toads that wouldn't count as additional main cast in mainstream advertisings, of course, Nintendo wouldn't try to build distinctive personality and character on Yellow/Blue despite of their precense as SMB player.

Tbh, I can understand Nintendo alittle bit that they're avoiding to add more major toads to the main cast. While I think it's unnecessary to remove secondary toad characters from RPG stories, it's also relunctant to push more major Toads which would add obstacles to spin-off rosters, much like how Koopalings just cannot recieve a sport race invite.

But I also think it's unnecessary to restrict the use of toads in NSMB. I think it could had been more open with a wide set of color options (e.g. Purple Toad, Green Toad), of course allowing the classic Toad to join as well. Likely Nintendo hesitate because the color palette would get complicated with the power-ups, but would be fun if Nintendo figure out a custom color system for a playable Toad.

I ship them


(source: https://bsky.app/profile/mrchilly05.bsky.social/post/3lkbs5chfds2i)

Nintendo probably should have just made a third human character for New Super Mario Bros. Wii, allowing the game to have regular Toad in the fourth slot. Having Toad, Yellow Toad, and Blue Toad all exist simultaneously doesn't really contribute that much. All three of them are Toads who step up to help save the Mushroom Kingdom. And then maybe the third human character could have been female, helping round out the cast earlier than New Super Mario Bros. U Deluxe. (I say this in full awareness that making a new model and animations for a new character is more expensive than building off of the already in the budget Toad model by making color swaps and animations for it, but we're on an Internet forum so we live in Magical Christmas Land where budgets aren't a concern.) Since Yellow Toad and Blue Toad already exist, its a good idea to keep them around.

I would like Yellow Toad and Blue Toad to be depicted as their reference counterparts in the Super Mario Bros. Movie. I think they could be fleshed out as two goofy sidekicks to Mario and Luigi.

Blue Toad was probably carried over from SMB2. SMB2 had Peach as a playable character, and since Peach was kidnapped in NSMBW they decided to replace her with another toad. So for me, Yellow Toad felt like a filler character, whereas Blue Toad did not. And also the reason why there isn't a playable Red Toad in the NSMB games is probably because Mario is already red, which would make the points that appear on the screen clash. But since points don't exist in SMBW, it makes it easier for characters to share the same color.

I'm actually quite surprised Captain Toad made it in SMBW. Even if he was just a cameo. That means we're one step closer for Hint Toad to sneak his way in... hehehe

(By the way, I agree with all of your poll options)

the only way i'd go with the design updates is if the designs actually set them apart from all forms of generic Toad in more than just outfit. Nonstandard palettes, body type differences, facial hair, that kind of stuff, and were given suitably unique names to solidly define them as distinct characters. The way Paper Mario nailed Toad designs on the first go and yet it never stuck always bothered me. There's little I wouldn't do or sacrifice to manifest a timeline where the species in general is portrayed like those games & early Mario Party design wise.

If the redesign option isn't to that extent however, I'd rather the existing unique Toads get used over the various color variants of "it sure is a Toad". Toadette's inclusion is good, I'd also throw Toadsworth in there. though to be honest, for NSMBWii I'd have much rather seen Peach, Wario or Waluigi be playable over players 3 and 4 being Toads. If Peach being playable means she can't be kidnapped, good, the story gets to be more interesting than the bare minimum. i'd choose her being playable over kidnapped any day.

Tinselina said:

the only way i'd go with the design updates is if the designs actually set them apart from all forms of generic Toad in more than just outfit. Nonstandard palettes, body type differences, facial hair, that kind of stuff, and were given suitably unique names to solidly define them as distinct characters. The way Paper Mario nailed Toad designs on the first go and yet it never stuck always bothered me. There's little I wouldn't do or sacrifice to manifest a timeline where the species in general is portrayed like those games & early Mario Party design wise.

If the redesign option isn't to that extent however, I'd rather the existing unique Toads get used over the various color variants of "it sure is a Toad". Toadette's inclusion is good, I'd also throw Toadsworth in there. though to be honest, for NSMBWii I'd have much rather seen Peach, Wario or Waluigi be playable over players 3 and 4 being Toads. If Peach being playable means she can't be kidnapped, good, the story gets to be more interesting than the bare minimum. i'd choose her being playable over kidnapped any day.

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I don't think Peach is going to be kidnapped ever again with the new character direction set by the Super Mario Bros. Movie. I hope 2D Mario stays like Wonder as, though I love the classic format of the NSMB series, I love the wild and unexpected way that Wonder is (making it my favorite 2D game) and I do think it's cool that Peach is helping Mario and Luigi out in their adventures now.

This is only tangential to the topic of blue and yellow toad, but I think they should have other toads with hair-like extensions to their head like Toadette's pigtails. You could easily imagine how the concept could be translated to resemble bun or a ponytail or other kinds of hairstyles which could increase the variety of Toads while keeping to the the current lore that the mushroom cap is a part of their head and not a hat that they wear over any hair.

bucken berry and ala gold

I guess Blue Toad looks spiffy enough. I just never understood this situation with the roster. The first four-player game in the series basically has a whole three characters to choose from, but one of them is twice because oops. I would never have believed this was a plausible outcome if they didn't do it and brazenly pretend that nothing was amiss there. The nickname rumors were so tempting because i was sure there had to be something more to these character choices, even if Bucken-Berry and Ala-Gold are audibly some sort of mental keysmash.

I've always enjoyed the multiplayer recolor trope, autism thing maybe.

You are me, but you are you and we are family and I love you all individually. This effect only works if you go all the way with it, the toads only slightly tickle me. It's just a very narratively satisfying fantasy, these differences are superficial, your form isn't your essence, in unity we triumph. The economic nature of this design philosophy makes it feel very raw; it's an acknowledgment, acceptance, and expansion of the connection between artificiality and life in this format. Alone you would systematically go through each loop of the tableau, exploring each playset of floating signifiers picked and placed routinely by and inside the machinery. Each and every task punctuated by recurrent clicks and beeps, very lonesome. But when human emergence is implanted, in this constrained yet expanding playground of repeated tactile procedures, you find company in characters whose motives extend beyond technological doctrine, your other-worldy avatars given the same tools of expression in what could elsewise have been an insular story.

I admit, hypothetically, I would enjoy NSMB Wii more if it was just four identical toads with different colors schemes. My brain likes when the same overall composition comes in different flavors, okay?!?!

I liked the toads as a kid. I'd always play as Blue Toad when I would play with my dad. I still like them, but I can see why people would be disappointed in them. And I'll admit, Toadette would have been a nice addition instead of just two color swapped toads

I always thought the reason we couldn't play as Red Toad, was because in singleplayer he was always trapped inside boxes and scared of being out in the levels

Neither option would be ideal, but if the names that came from gaming websites were used, IGN's Yvan and Wolley are better for being simple names, as opposed to Destructoid's Bucken-Berry and Ala-Gold due to the complexity of the names, though I suspect the unusual nature of the names are why Destructoid's names caught on. The latter is also basically a corruption of Anakin Skywalker's name anyway (the "kin" part transliterates to "gold", basically).

Thank you for reading.

I enjoy these guys on a smaller level there nothing extravagant just fun filler, honestly my favorite thing about them is there unofficial fan names
Buckinberry &
Alagold

I love them. I think the idea of Toads fighting alongside Mario to rescue the princess is cool, and I like their design. However, I can't help but think of how Wario should have been playable in New Super Mario Bros 2. What a waste.

LuigiFan24 said:

I don't think Peach is going to be kidnapped ever again with the new character direction set by the Super Mario Bros. Movie. I hope 2D Mario stays like Wonder as, though I love the classic format of the NSMB series, I love the wild and unexpected way that Wonder is (making it my favorite 2D game) and I do think it's cool that Peach is helping Mario and Luigi out in their adventures now.

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This is going to ruffle some feathers, but I would really dislike if they actually did that. I know everyone in gaming loves to hate on Peach for being the useless damsel who does nothing but get kidnapped by Bowser all the time, but if you look at the lore of the Mario series, that's not actually true. Remember, the plot of the original Super Mario Bros had Bowser kidnap her because she was the only one with the power to reverse the dark spell he had put on her subjects that trapped them in blocks. Even from the beginning, she served a purpose that wasn't as a mere object or a target to be reached. It wasn't much of a plot, but she was treated as a real threat instead of a pawn in a game. So when you saved her, it actually meant something. The problem with many Mario games is that they don't replicate that kind of feeling. It's games like Super Mario 64 and Paper Mario that expand upon the nature of the kidnapping and flesh out her character that we see the standard plot really shine.

Let me explain. In Super Mario 64, Bowser doesn't just kidnap Peach, he takes over Peach's Castle and all its surrounding areas and traps her in the wall. He clearly thought this thing through, and as a result, he not only put Peach in serious danger, he endangered all her subjects, and most importantly, there's nothing Peach can do about it. Indeed, the game is basically you freeing the Toads and others from Bowser's tyranny on the way to saving Peach. That's what gives the game stakes: you're not just trying to save Peach, you're fighting to free her kingdom. Just like the original Super Mario Bros. In Paper Mario, Peach is given moments that develop her character and show her to be a selfless, kind-hearted person. She expresses concern for her people in the castle as it's rising in the sky, and we see just how much she misses Mario and wants to see him again. But where the game really stands out here is how she gets directly involved in finding out where the Star Spirits are and relays the information to Mario. She deliberately risks being captured in order to give Mario a fighting chance at saving her, and given that Bowser is invincible with the Star Rod, the only reason Mario is able to beat him is because of the information he receives from Peach that enables him to rescue the Star Spirits. In Thousand-Year Door, it's the same thing, and on top of that, she's given an actual reason to be kidnapped--namely, Grodus needs her to be the host for the Shadow Queen. When Mario and crew are about to lose to the Shadow Queen, she comes through, fighting off the Queen's control long enough to give them one last boost of power that enables them to defeat the Queen and free Peach. Even the platformers showcase this: in Super Mario 3D Land, we see Peach attempt to escape from Bowser and defeat some of his soldiers. The attempt ultimately fails, but it shows that she's not going to just sit around waiting for Mario to show up. You seeing a pattern here? The games that develop the story and/or Peach are the ones that get praised and cheered.

However, what about the games that don't bother to give Peach anything to do? Take the New Super Mario Bros games. Now, I really love the New Super Mario Bros games and will be the first to defend them against the accusations of "soulless" and "rehashes", but even I can admit the games just don't have much in the way of plot. While the plots aren't necessarily bad, they aren't very original and really don't serve much of a purpose other than to set up the actual gameplay. We're given no real reason why Peach would be kidnapped; it's literally just "Mario and company are having an ordinary day when Bowser and his minions show up to cause trouble because they feel like it". In New Super Mario Bros Wii (which I should mention is my favorite Mario game), when Mario and gang reach the end of most worlds, they see Peach standing on the airship right next to the ledge. Does Peach do anything to get to them when she sees them? Nope, she just stands there and watches as Bowser Jr taunts them and jumps on board the airship as it takes them to the next world. (The way I would fix this is to have Bowser Jr beat them to the airship, jump onboard, and then taunt them as the airship flies away with Peach on board, preferably while tossing an obstacle at them. Also, have Peach tied up to prevent any escapes.) Peach receives little development and has no real defining character traits. Which means she isn't so much a character as she is an object to be gained. I understand that these games are supposed to be simple and appealing to everyone, but you really can't come up with something that's not "oh no, Peach got snatched away by Bowser Jr because Mario fell for an obvious trap he should have seen coming"? I think this is the real reason the games' reputation went undeservedly bad in the eyes of many people. (If it's any solace, at least they still come up with unique ways for Bowser to kidnap the princess. You wanna know what happens when a game doesn't even have that, on top of a bland story and no memorable characterization? You get Paper Mario: Sticker Star.)

At its core, the Mario franchise is about a man fighting repeatedly to save the girl he loves, and the world they live in, from an evil tyrant bent on ruling them all. No matter what challenges he faces, what obstacles get thrown at him, or what hardships he has to endure, he will always defend her. Mario is Peach's knight, a selfless, noble, and brave man who along with Luigi will always stand up to evil. How can you not be romantic about that? The standard plot of the Mario Bros saving Peach from Bowser has become so integral to the franchise, and it has maintained as series tradition for those very reasons. Heroes like Mario and Luigi are made with the purpose to rescue girls like Peach from danger, and with the old-fashioned honor, decency, and courage they show in the face of true evil, they're exactly what the world desperately needs right now.

Personally, I would push for a mixed bag of games, with both ones where Peach is a playable character and a badass, and ones where Peach is the damsel in distress but gets fleshed out as part of an interesting plot. Maybe people will call me a sexist for saying this--which I'm not, but they will--but I honestly think the damsel-in-distress plots are really cool and should not be forgotten as simply a misogynistic bag of cliches.

I don't see Mario and Peach's relationship as romantic. Sure, there's the little kiss when she gets rescued, but she gives that to whoever rescues her, not exclusively Mario, so I always see it as less of a romantic kiss and more of a traditional thank you kiss. I don't think their relationship needs romantic undertones just because one is the playable male hero and the other (originally) is the traditional damsel in distress he saves. They definitely sprinkle in enough teases for those who ship them, but I don't think it needs to be any more overt than that (especially as someone who doesn't ship them)

I like that Peach in recent years has evolved past that, her best roles even during the era where she was always kidnapped were the ones where she is actively helping push the plot forward. Paper Mario and TTYD have her making the best of her captivity, even if the fact that she's in captivity still feels like it was only done for status quo purposes and they just were willing to work within that more. Super Paper Mario sees the game starting off with the status quo of her being kidnapped, but quickly going sideways when Bowser also gets kidnapped, then Peach is set free after the first chapter and is an active hero from that point on. That to me felt like the perfect point to transition away from that tired trope forever, but it took the mainline games and even the RPGs about another decade or so after that.

If Peach gets kidnapped from time to time, fine, but only if she isn't clearly the favorite for that role. Mix it up, have other characters be kidnapped just as often so it doesn't feel like she's being put there for outdated trope's sake. Heck, have Peach be kidnapped alongside other characters, without them merely being collateral with Peach as the main target because she's Peach. But really I'd prefer if the thing Mario is fighting for is saving the world first and foremost, and stopping Bowser & any other villain that rises up to threaten it. And Peach is a supporting protagonist just like Luigi. Also when it comes to saving members of the main cast, I genuinely think Mario saving Luigi is a more compelling motive than saving Peach. Though I also don't want Luigi to become the new de facto damsel.

And to loop back to the Toads, yeah I think the basic colors are boring but having Peach available to be in the playable cast means you aren't stuck with just Mario, Luigi and them. (Make Toadsworth playable though, I miss him and I'd love to see what they could do with him now that Peach isn't constantly kidnapped to force him into the same "panicky worrywart that contributes nothing of value" role every time. Toadette & Toadsworth being the two playable Toads would be so much preferable over the NSMBWii approach)

Skuchi037 said:

However, what about the games that don't bother to give Peach anything to do? Take the New Super Mario Bros games. Now, I really love the New Super Mario Bros games and will be the first to defend them against the accusations of "soulless" and "rehashes", but even I can admit the games just don't have much in the way of plot. While the plots aren't necessarily bad, they aren't very original and really don't serve much of a purpose other than to set up the actual gameplay. We're given no real reason why Peach would be kidnapped; it's literally just "Mario and company are having an ordinary day when Bowser and his minions show up to cause trouble because they feel like it". In New Super Mario Bros Wii (which I should mention is my favorite Mario game), when Mario and gang reach the end of most worlds, they see Peach standing on the airship right next to the ledge. Does Peach do anything to get to them when she sees them? Nope, she just stands there and watches as Bowser Jr taunts them and jumps on board the airship as it takes them to the next world. (The way I would fix this is to have Bowser Jr beat them to the airship, jump onboard, and then taunt them as the airship flies away with Peach on board, preferably while tossing an obstacle at them. Also, have Peach tied up to prevent any escapes.) Peach receives little development and has no real defining character traits. Which means she isn't so much a character as she is an object to be gained. I understand that these games are supposed to be simple and appealing to everyone, but you really can't come up with something that's not "oh no, Peach got snatched away by Bowser Jr because Mario fell for an obvious trap he should have seen coming"? I think this is the real reason the games' reputation went undeservedly bad in the eyes of many people. (If it's any solace, at least they still come up with unique ways for Bowser to kidnap the princess. You wanna know what happens when a game doesn't even have that, on top of a bland story and no memorable characterization? You get Paper Mario: Sticker Star.)

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I think the New Super Mario Bros. series is extremely underrated and I think it's amazing! I agree with you that they're good games (while I do like NSMBU more than NSMBWII). I like the NSMB series' simplicity tbh. Also, I'm not hating on Peach being the damsel-in-distress. I think it's fine when they do that. Also, Mario has been kidnapped in games before, too! In the Super Princess Peach game, Mario was kidnapped and Peach had to save him. I think it should switch between who gets kidnapped depending on the specific storyline.

LuigiFan24 said:

Also, Mario has been kidnapped in games before, too! In the Super Princess Peach game, Mario was kidnapped and Peach had to save him. I think it should switch between who gets kidnapped depending on the specific storyline.

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Imagine if they really did switch who gets kidnapped everytime. They could turn it into a funny moment, where Bowser appears and Mario and Peach do a quick rock-paper-scissors game to see who has to be kidnapped this time XD

ABlueRose said:

Imagine if they really did switch who gets kidnapped everytime. They could turn it into a funny moment, where Bowser appears and Mario and Peach do a quick rock-paper-scissors game to see who has to be kidnapped this time XD

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Lol that would be hilarious. I never thought about it like that!

If someone has to be kidnapped & someone has to rescue them, I don't want it to just be a matter of "is it going to be Mario or Peach." Let other characters be candidates too. In addition to just dialing back the frequency of kidnapping plots in general. You don't even need to have a kidnapping to have a character who needs to be saved. Bowser's Fury is about helping Bowser Jr. save his dad, and Bowser certainly isn't kidnapped in that scenario. At least not in the traditional sense, it's moreso he needs to be saved from himself.

Tinselina said:

If someone has to be kidnapped & someone has to rescue them, I don't want it to just be a matter of "is it going to be Mario or Peach." Let other characters be candidates too. In addition to just dialing back the frequency of kidnapping plots in general. You don't even need to have a kidnapping to have a character who needs to be saved. Bowser's Fury is about helping Bowser Jr. save his dad, and Bowser certainly isn't kidnapped in that scenario. At least not in the traditional sense, it's moreso he needs to be saved from himself.

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I get what you're saying, I just don't want it to be Luigi since I want his heroism to shine!