A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?

Revenant Archagent said:
Well, I don't like the universes split, and we can agree to disagree
Click to expand...
To each their own. But tbh, this thread is getting a little derailed. Let's get back on topic.
 
I still think the main idea of the thread is great, it could really help develop Mario's overall character in ways that couldn't happen with the other characters present.
 
YoshiFlutterJump said:
It is a clear and established fact that Paper Mario is the Mario from the PM series.

Either that or PiT Baby Mario qualifies as a different character.
Click to expand...
It is neither clear nor established.
 
i think Baby Luigi is a completely different character with his own quirks and stuff from Luigi but he's still the same person...if you sorta get what i'm saying
 
Mario has no Canon and since it's only one game (hence it's not established); the eShop description, if you contextualize it, has to describe Paper characters as a different entity to differentiate from the flesh and blood characters. It wouldn't make any sense either way. I mean, it's ultimately up to interpretation whenever you think that Paper Mario is Mario or Paper Mario is Paper Mario and everything in the Paper universe is separate from everything else, and I wouldn't rely on marketing words as authority for Mario world building.
 
LeftyGreenMario said:
Mario has no Canon
Click to expand...
This just isn't true. There most certainly is canon in Mario. Many different canons, perhaps, but to say that there's absolutely no continuity between games is just wrong. The games reference the events of others all the time. It's just wrong to say that there's no continuity in Mario.

In Paper Jam's case, it's all on the intent of the developers. Tell me, do you really think that the paper characters in Paper Jam were intended to just be paper look-alikes of the real thing? No! They're clearly intended to be the same characters as the ones in the Paper Mario games. Developer intent is at the core of any continuity. Any arguments about continuity that try to undermine obvious developer intent are just stupid. Doing so for the purposes of personal headcanon is fine, but it contradicts official canon--yes, I said it--and shouldn't be treated as fact.
 
Dude, this is obviously up to personal interpretation, as it is confirmed nowhere that either is true, so just drop it
 
Revenant Archagent said:
Dude, this is obviously up to personal interpretation, as it is confirmed nowhere that either is true, so just drop it
Click to expand...
What are you talking about? It is very much implied in-game and is outright stated in marketing material. It has certainly been confirmed officially. If you don't want to accept it, that's fine--I myself strongly disagree with the SMB3 stageplay thing despite it being official canon--but it's official canon, and only official canon can change that.
 
It's not official canon, it's an interpretation that you for some reason believe is canon. The marketing details you use are just the eshop, which 1. can just be referring to the fact that the characters are paper and 2. could be unreliable anyways due to translation differences and such

It is implied nowhere in game because they never reference the other Paper Mario games at all
 
Revenant Archagent said:
It's not official canon, it's an interpretation that you for some reason believe is canon. The marketing details you use are just the eshop, which 1. can just be referring to the fact that the characters are paper and 2. could be unreliable anyways due to translation differences and such

It is implied nowhere in game because they never reference the other Paper Mario games at all
Click to expand...
I guess it's time to pull the trump card then...

Mario_%26_Luigi_Paper_Mix_-_logo.png


This translates to Mario & Luigi RPG: Paper Mario Mix, btw. Fact is, it's not just a paper-themed M&L game, it's a Paper Mario series crossover, made plainly clear in-game, even moreso in advertisements, and outright stated in the Japanese title of the game.

Like I said, it's fine to disagree with official canon. But stop spreading any doubt there might be as if it's fact.
 
....

That doesn't prove anything dude. It could just be the fact that they're paper characters.

I'm not saying it's not alluding to Paper Mario. I'm saying that it's not the same Paper Mario from the other games because that's just regular Mario.
 
Revenant Archagent said:
....

That doesn't prove anything dude. It could just be the fact that they're paper characters.

I'm not saying it's not alluding to Paper Mario. I'm saying that it's not the same Paper Mario from the other games because that's just regular Mario.
Click to expand...
You know? I'm done with this. You seem so insistent on saying "PM series Mario isn't Paper Mario, he's just a paper Mario". It takes a lot of reaching to hold that belief despite all the official material that at the very least casts heavy doubt on it. Go back and play Paper Jam. In fact, go back and play all post-2007 PM games.

And look, if you're still insistent on your headcanon, I'm not one to destroy it. It's plainly obvious that you're just regurgitating the same points and trying (and failing) to fish for more. But you keep your story, and I'll keep mine. I'm sick of this.
 
Like I said, it's opinion.

I've been sick of this since then, you're getting way too upset over something that's entirely subjective
 
Revenant Archagent said:
Like I said, it's opinion.

I've been sick of this since then, you're getting way too upset over something that's entirely subjective
Click to expand...
And you say I'm the one who was getting upset?

No matter. That's a debate for another place and time. We've severely derailed this thread and we've got to get it back on track.
 
YoshiFlutterJump said:
This just isn't true. There most certainly is canon in Mario. Many different canons, perhaps, but to say that there's absolutely no continuity between games is just wrong. The games reference the events of others all the time. It's just wrong to say that there's no continuity in Mario.

In Paper Jam's case, it's all on the intent of the developers. Tell me, do you really think that the paper characters in Paper Jam were intended to just be paper look-alikes of the real thing? No! They're clearly intended to be the same characters as the ones in the Paper Mario games. Developer intent is at the core of any continuity. Any arguments about continuity that try to undermine obvious developer intent are just stupid. Doing so for the purposes of personal headcanon is fine, but it contradicts official canon--yes, I said it--and shouldn't be treated as fact.
Click to expand...
Yes, you know what the intent of the developers is? It's been no Canon. They actually don't give that much hoots about continuity. Even in games that have some semblance of continuity is always prone to breaking it later. Super Mario Galaxy 2 threw out everything from Super Mario Galaxy. It's never explained how Kylie Koopa doesn't remember Mario or Luigi in Paper Jam. Most events on the RPG games tend to be forgotten shortly after. Everything you see in sequels are just callbacks to the original game. Developers are more nudging the player. "HEY? Remember this dude? Remember this gal?" It's because a coherent story always, and I mean always takes background to pretty much everything else. The developers intent is to have you enjoy the Mario universe and games without having to give a care about the story at all. The Mario series is incredibly versatile from the characters but also from the lack of a Canon that allows this versatility in the first place. So yeah, what were you saying about developer intent? Oh yeah, they don't give a shit and they leave it to the fans arriving at different conclusions however they want and they'll probably be surprised you think Mario has a Canon.
 
Dev intent was games first, story last
 
That doesn't mean there is no canon, there clearly is. As neglected as it is, to say that there is zero continuity in Mario is to say that none of the games take place in the same reality, that every game takes place in its own individual reality.

Yes, the devs might really neglect canon. But, although neglected, it's still there. In fact, there was once a time when they actually cared about continuity; check out the manuals for SMB3 and SMW to see what I mean.
 
If by caring about continuity you mean barely acknowledging it as an afterthought then sure.
 
YoshiFlutterJump said:
That doesn't mean there is no canon, there clearly is. As neglected as it is, to say that there is zero continuity in Mario is to say that none of the games take place in the same reality, that every game takes place in its own individual reality.

Yes, the devs might really neglect canon. But, although neglected, it's still there. In fact, there was once a time when they actually cared about continuity; check out the manuals for SMB3 and SMW to see what I mean.
Click to expand...
Yeah, you can interpret all those games taking place in discrete continuities. Even within series. That's the point of a non Canon game. Or you can do a shred of continuity only to throw it out the next game. The entire Mario series might as well be some stage play where Bowser is actually a close friend and chill guy but plays the movie villain role in the platformers, making the platformers nonCanon, but Mario Kart the Canon. You can even argue that it makes even more sense than assuming the platformers and RPGs are Canon as it explains all the weird contradictory various roles Bowser takes or the weird contradicting personalities Luigi has. And you can't show evidence of being right or wrong because evidence is always going to be unreliable and built on assumptions made from individual fans. I think you might be confusing between continuity and Canon honestly. Continuity is usually just a vehicle to move stories along I think rather than serious thoughts put into them.

*Canon is capitalized a lot but that's autocorrect being a bitch so bear with me.
 
Mario is like old cartoon shorts. There might be certain recurring locations. characters and personality types but they'll change them to suit whatever thing they are trying to make.

I mean it's fun to try and make headcanons over what goes where but at the end of the day, that's all it is for us. Headcanons.
 
HEROMARIO said:
Already done


Super Mari 8) Land: 2 6 G 8) lden c 8) ins

(Super Mario Land: 2 6 Golden coins
Click to expand...

This is something I would like to see again, where Mario is on a strange adventure and a hitherto new villain, Wario. But...

supermarioland2.jpg


If you want to be technical, Super Mario Land 2 does not fit the strict criteria, for a few of the Koopa Troop turned up in this game, thanks to appearances of Goomba and Koopa Troopa.

Thank you for reading.
 
HEROMARIO said:
But I doubt they work for :bowser: they are probably peaceful just mario gets knocked out by crashing into one.
Click to expand...

My general description for the Koopa Troop is the enemies normally associated with Bowser. As long as the species is recognised as part of Bowser's regular army, which in this case are Goomba and Koopa Troopa, they are lumped under the general grouping of the Koopa Troop. I decided on the label "Koopa Troop" as a shorthand so that it is easy to understand, since I am more so bringing up this topic on the possibility of pit Mario with a less familiar set of characters where characters from the standard Super Mario crew besides Mario (the familiar ground) are absent (less regular participants like Daisy, Wario and Waluigi are fair game). In this case, Super Mario Land 2 still contains familiar enemies (Goomba and Koopa Troopa) even though the majority of enemies are all new.

Thank you for reading.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back