Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions

[ThatGuy62]

Hey Bowser was pretty good in the first two games

He had pretty much the same personality in the third game, just less screentime

Not quite. He was a sideshow in TTYD, but the joke was generally to contrast Peach's segments where she gets hints on where Mario has to go next by showing him arriving at where Mario was last chapter. He was sometimes an idiot, but the whole joke was that he was a self-aware tyrant and loved it, hence him referring to himself as "Bowser, Businessman of legend! Fear my accounting".
That isn't to say he wasn't occasionally stupid, it's that the humor came mostly from his ego.

 

[GalacticPetey]

I must say I vastly prefer Bowser's portrayal in TTYD and SPM. I feel like he just works so much better as a comedic, self aware villain, and when he tries to be super sinister and evil he comes across as bland an uninspired. I'd much rather have a comedic Bowser than a boring one who just roars.

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

I feel like BiS was my favorite interpretation of him. He was funny, and he was threatening at some points. I thought it was a great blend.

 

[Mcmadness]

I must say I vastly prefer Bowser's portrayal in TTYD and SPM. I feel like he just works so much better as a comedic, self aware villain, and when he tries to be super sinister and evil he comes across as bland an uninspired. I'd much rather have a comedic Bowser than a boring one who just roars.

Which is what he was in the first game. They just kept his villainy properly intact because thats what he's supposed to be.

 

[ThatGuy62]

For me, the best Bowsers are the ones that play up his ego, but show signs that he could back it up.

 

[Mister Apple]

Less screen time? He was one of the main player characters.

He had relatively few lines of dialogue, though.

 

[Paper Mario]

Most of his dialogue is only there if he's out during cutscenes. I personally like his dialogue and portrayal for the most part.

 

[Mcmadness]

I don't. He's too stupid, pathetic and whinny. And the suggestion he would actually sacrifice himself for somebody else is absurd.

 

[Mister Apple]

I saw it as character development, which I thought was pretty cool.

 

[Magikrazy]

Character development? Did you play any more Mario games after that one? He goes back to being the evil guy and is never again hinted to have a soft spot for anyone.

Also, can someone fill me in on what happened during that scene? I didn't get through the game that far to see it myself.

 

[ThatGuy62]

Character development? Did you play any more Mario games after that one? He goes back to being the evil guy and is never again hinted to have a soft spot for anyone.

Also, can someone fill me in on what happened during that scene? I didn't get through the game that far to see it myself.

McMadness is probably referring to the scene after you beat O'Chunks for the final time. The ceiling starts falling but Bowser holds it up and urges Mario to get the princess into the next room.

 

[Mister Apple]

Character development? Did you play any more Mario games after that one? He goes back to being the evil guy and is never again hinted to have a soft spot for anyone.

Well, character development within the game. It's not a massive storytelling moment or anything, but it's also not a terrible moment that doesn't adhere to canon like McMadness is making it out to be.

 

[Magikrazy]

I don't know. I usually agree with Mcmadness on these kind of things, but I feel it would have made less sense if he just let the ceiling fall on them. They're about to go against a frickin' Mary Sue dickhead, and the risk is everything being destroyed, all because this guy got cockblocked by his dad several years ago. And this guy is such a self-insert, he knocked Bowser out like nothing in the first cutscene. I wouldn't take any risks against this guy if I were Bowser. Plus, Mario and Peach would have died in that flipside dimension. I wouldn't wish anyone's final moments to be in that terrible place, not even my worst enemies.

 

[Mcmadness]

He's been shown to be nothing but a selfish jackass throughout the entire series. This sudden bit of niceness without evil intentions behind it comes right the fuck out of nowhere and is completely at odds on how he normally acts.

You can't even consider it to be character development because it has no major build up. Bowser becoming a nicer person is never once something thats brought up the entire game.

 

[Magikrazy]

just because he's a selfish jackass doesn't mean he's stupid. he wants to not let everything be destroyed just as much as Mario or Peach, and id think hed be somewhat willing to not let them die if it means getting this dumb shit over with so he can go back home and never return to this awful dimension ever again

 

[ThatGuy62]

He's been shown to be nothing but a selfish jackass throughout the entire series. This sudden bit of niceness without evil intentions behind it comes right the *bleep* out of nowhere and is completely at odds on how he normally acts.

You can't even consider it to be character development because it has no major build up. Bowser becoming a nicer person is never once something thats brought up the entire game.

Eh, Bowser's had the occasional moment where he's a nice guy, even if he's gruff about it (Mario Party 4's ending is one example). And Peach being there means he'd probably do, if only for her.
As for Mario, well, Bowser seemed disappointed and offended when he thought Mario was going to give up against Bleck since he never did against him.

 

[DragonFreak]

He's been shown to be nothing but a selfish jackass throughout the entire series. This sudden bit of niceness without evil intentions behind it comes right the *bleep* out of nowhere and is completely at odds on how he normally acts.

You can't even consider it to be character development because it has no major build up. Bowser becoming a nicer person is never once something thats brought up the entire game.

Eh, Bowser's had the occasional moment where he's a nice guy, even if he's gruff about it (Mario Party 4's ending is one example).

Along with Super Mario RPG and even the ending of Super Mario Sunshine shows a little bit of it too.

 

[ThatGuy62]

He's been shown to be nothing but a selfish jackass throughout the entire series. This sudden bit of niceness without evil intentions behind it comes right the *bleep* out of nowhere and is completely at odds on how he normally acts.

You can't even consider it to be character development because it has no major build up. Bowser becoming a nicer person is never once something thats brought up the entire game.

Eh, Bowser's had the occasional moment where he's a nice guy, even if he's gruff about it (Mario Party 4's ending is one example).

Along with Super Mario RPG and even the ending of Super Mario Sunshine shows a little bit of it too.

You have a point about Mario RPG. I didn't really count Sunshine because that moment was specifically towards Junior.

 

[Magikrazy]

i dont know if id count mario rpg as bowser being nice. he was pretty much only going along to get his castle and army back. after they beat exor, he almost straight up left the group because as far as he was concerned, the mission was over. it took some convincing from geno (as well as the possible realization that smithy could just make another sword to crash into his castle) to change his mind

 

[Mcmadness]

just because he's a selfish jackass doesn't mean he's stupid. he wants to not let everything be destroyed just as much as Mario or Peach, and id think hed be somewhat willing to not let them die if it means getting this dumb *bleep* over with so he can go back home and never return to this awful dimension ever again

Yeah, I mean, it's not like there was already a guy holding the roof up so he could have easily walked out of the room or anything.

Oh wait.

He's been shown to be nothing but a selfish jackass throughout the entire series. This sudden bit of niceness without evil intentions behind it comes right the *bleep* out of nowhere and is completely at odds on how he normally acts.

You can't even consider it to be character development because it has no major build up. Bowser becoming a nicer person is never once something thats brought up the entire game.

Eh, Bowser's had the occasional moment where he's a nice guy, even if he's gruff about it (Mario Party 4's ending is one example).

Along with Super Mario RPG and even the ending of Super Mario Sunshine shows a little bit of it too.

Bowser in Mario party is an entirely different beast. Super Mario rpg's Bowser is almost as bad as SPM's and sunshine has the excuse of it being his own son, even evil can have family.

And the most important thing is, those are the minority of his appearances, exceptions don't make rules.

 

[ThatGuy62]

just because he's a selfish jackass doesn't mean he's stupid. he wants to not let everything be destroyed just as much as Mario or Peach, and id think hed be somewhat willing to not let them die if it means getting this dumb *bleep* over with so he can go back home and never return to this awful dimension ever again

Yeah, I mean, it's not like there was already a guy holding the roof up so he could have easily walked out of the room or anything.

Oh wait.

I completely forgot O'Chunks decided to hold up the ceiling first. Huh.

 

[Magikrazy]

well if that's the case, yeah. bowser should have just left with mario and peach. maybe o'chunks would have been crushed, but i dont care enough about him to feel bad if he did.

 

[Mcmadness]

Plus he survives anyway. As if anybody really believed that they had died.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Here's the thing though, Mario characters are such blank slates that have little to no personality anyway. They can be toyed and played with from game to game. There's no set canon and developers can do what they please with these various stock characters. So TTYD's portrayal isn't inaccurate or unfaithful, because there's not really a set standard anyway. These characters are flexible. The RPGs are just another interpretation.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Even if there isn't character consistency and characters are up for interpretation, I think there are some depictions that work better than others and it's still fine to voice dissatisfaction with some depictions.