Smash Bros. Character/Roster Merit
- Thread starter SonicMario
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Tyrell Badd
"The hated boss who beats you down..."
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Yeah, if "Toad" has any chance of ever becoming a playable, even though I don't care for him, it'll be under the guise of Captain Toad who's been around pretty much since Sunshine (he wasn't Captain Toad then, but whatever).
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #55
I keep forgetting to research Ghirahim and Impa a little more. So I'm going to have to save them, Shulk, and Dixie for next week. But this time I thought I'd put a roster merit ranking for each game with only the characters that debuted from that game.
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Kirby
5. Pikachu
6. Samus
7. Fox
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ness
10. Yoshi
11. Luigi
12. Jigglypuff
Reasoning: Mario as Nintendo's flagship character will always be #1 Merit in both Smash 64's Merit and all-time. There is not debate on that even if there are a few characters that have been in Smash that are older then Mario. The merit is based on their merit towards Nintendo. The ranking also bases on new franchises + unique movesets. It's also slightly based on how long the character has existed. Donkey Kong is #2 because of the original Donkey Kong game where both him and Mario debuted in. Also while Jigglypuff had a more unique moveset then Luigi, Luigi's existence was far longer and him and Jigglypuff are the only characters in Smash 64 that aren't the 1 rep of their franchise. Yoshi is below Captain Falcon and Ness because of his Sub-Series status. Also don't fret too much about Jigglypuff being last, as I really have come to like Jigglypuff over the years. She's just the closest to being the odd one out when everyone else in Smash 64 each are no-brainer excellent meritable inclusions. I certainly like her more then what are my least favorite inclusions of the other 3 games thus far
1. Mr. Game and Watch
2. Bowser
3. Peach
4. Zelda
5. Mewtwo
6. Marth
7. Falco
8. Ice Climbers
9. Ganondorf
10. Young Link
11. Roy
12. Pichu
13. Dr. Mario
Reasoning: Game & Watch is actually the most meritable inclusion of Melee's newcomers as a rep of Nintendo gaming that predates Mario. That doesn't make his merit bigger then Mario's. But nonetheless the Game & Watch era perhaps helping Nintendo rise to where they could make Mario later on gives him huge credit and I think he has the honor of the most deserving of the Melee newcomers. From there it's no brainers that most of the other unique newcomers that came out from Melee are all in places #2-#6 while the rest I already explained about in the first time I went over Melee. Ganondorf would be around where Zelda is if it weren't for the fact he was just a slower, stronger Captain Falcon.
1. Sonic
2. King Dedede
3. Wario
4. Diddy Kong
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Ike
7. Meta Knight
8. Pit
9. Olimar
10. Snake
11. ROB
12. Wolf
13. Lucario
14. Lucas
15. Toon Link
Reasoning: I am a lil' iffy on putting Sonic on top because I do feel that might be a slight bias thing on my part. But there is the fact that Sonic was once Mario's biggest competition in early 90's. And competition is overall good in buisness because it strives both sides to try hard to match the other in terms of game quality. After Sega effectively lost to Nintendo (Even if they were actually shut down the most by Sony. Not Nintendo) though, Sega became a 3rd Party and basically ended up supporting Nintendo systems almost immediately after they turned 3rd Party. Porting Sonic Adventure 2 and the classic Genesis games onto the Gamecube. And then created a series of platformers on the Game Boy Advance with the Sonic Advance series. And Sonic's been a heavy 3rd Party supporter for Nintendo. Even making exclusives (Though with varying quality) for Nintendo systems. Sonic's inclusion is the perfect symbol of a business rivalry turned into a business friendship, as well as including a character that was so massively requested during Brawl they had to delay the game a little longer just to have enough time to get him into the game. That has to be some kind of force for a character to do that, no other Smash character can claim they've had that feat happen. But from there we get to the many other awesome inclusions that Brawl included. Toon Link's inclusion is really the only one I don't really get. But Toon Link is an improvement over Young Link in that it actually represents a different part of the Zelda series.
And I don't need to put a reasoning for the Smash 4 newcomers so far. But I'll list it again anyway.
1. Mega Man
2. Mii Fighters
3. Little Mac
4. Pac-Man
5. Villager
6. Robin
7. Palutena
8. Wii Fit Trainer
9. Rosalina
10. Lucina
11. Greninja
I'd like to do an all 51 character ranking as well. But that's where it gets kinda complicated as the list needs to be as objective as possible. I definitely think that the bottom characters of Melee especially Dr. Mario take up Dead Last. And pretty much most if not all of the Original 12 should be in the Top 20. Would anyone like to discuss what an All-Time Merit list regarding Smash Bros. would ultimately be?
If you need help on what counts for merit, this is most if not all what I account for: Overall Impact on Nintendo, Moveset Originality, Importance in their Series, Popularity, How long the Character has existed, and Impact on the Smash Bros. franchise. I also tend to view that characters that represent new IPs have more merit then additions to an already repped franchise or is a sub-series of another franchise. (Which is why Ness and Captain Falcon are above Luigi and Yoshi in my Merit rankings of the original 12) That is unless that new IP character isn't really that important to their game (Why Wii Fit Trainer is still low despite representing a new IP. You can play Wii Fit without seeing too much of the Trainer.)
1. Mario
2. Donkey Kong
3. Link
4. Kirby
5. Pikachu
6. Samus
7. Fox
8. Captain Falcon
9. Ness
10. Yoshi
11. Luigi
12. Jigglypuff
Reasoning: Mario as Nintendo's flagship character will always be #1 Merit in both Smash 64's Merit and all-time. There is not debate on that even if there are a few characters that have been in Smash that are older then Mario. The merit is based on their merit towards Nintendo. The ranking also bases on new franchises + unique movesets. It's also slightly based on how long the character has existed. Donkey Kong is #2 because of the original Donkey Kong game where both him and Mario debuted in. Also while Jigglypuff had a more unique moveset then Luigi, Luigi's existence was far longer and him and Jigglypuff are the only characters in Smash 64 that aren't the 1 rep of their franchise. Yoshi is below Captain Falcon and Ness because of his Sub-Series status. Also don't fret too much about Jigglypuff being last, as I really have come to like Jigglypuff over the years. She's just the closest to being the odd one out when everyone else in Smash 64 each are no-brainer excellent meritable inclusions. I certainly like her more then what are my least favorite inclusions of the other 3 games thus far
1. Mr. Game and Watch
2. Bowser
3. Peach
4. Zelda
5. Mewtwo
6. Marth
7. Falco
8. Ice Climbers
9. Ganondorf
10. Young Link
11. Roy
12. Pichu
13. Dr. Mario
Reasoning: Game & Watch is actually the most meritable inclusion of Melee's newcomers as a rep of Nintendo gaming that predates Mario. That doesn't make his merit bigger then Mario's. But nonetheless the Game & Watch era perhaps helping Nintendo rise to where they could make Mario later on gives him huge credit and I think he has the honor of the most deserving of the Melee newcomers. From there it's no brainers that most of the other unique newcomers that came out from Melee are all in places #2-#6 while the rest I already explained about in the first time I went over Melee. Ganondorf would be around where Zelda is if it weren't for the fact he was just a slower, stronger Captain Falcon.
1. Sonic
2. King Dedede
3. Wario
4. Diddy Kong
5. Pokemon Trainer
6. Ike
7. Meta Knight
8. Pit
9. Olimar
10. Snake
11. ROB
12. Wolf
13. Lucario
14. Lucas
15. Toon Link
Reasoning: I am a lil' iffy on putting Sonic on top because I do feel that might be a slight bias thing on my part. But there is the fact that Sonic was once Mario's biggest competition in early 90's. And competition is overall good in buisness because it strives both sides to try hard to match the other in terms of game quality. After Sega effectively lost to Nintendo (Even if they were actually shut down the most by Sony. Not Nintendo) though, Sega became a 3rd Party and basically ended up supporting Nintendo systems almost immediately after they turned 3rd Party. Porting Sonic Adventure 2 and the classic Genesis games onto the Gamecube. And then created a series of platformers on the Game Boy Advance with the Sonic Advance series. And Sonic's been a heavy 3rd Party supporter for Nintendo. Even making exclusives (Though with varying quality) for Nintendo systems. Sonic's inclusion is the perfect symbol of a business rivalry turned into a business friendship, as well as including a character that was so massively requested during Brawl they had to delay the game a little longer just to have enough time to get him into the game. That has to be some kind of force for a character to do that, no other Smash character can claim they've had that feat happen. But from there we get to the many other awesome inclusions that Brawl included. Toon Link's inclusion is really the only one I don't really get. But Toon Link is an improvement over Young Link in that it actually represents a different part of the Zelda series.
And I don't need to put a reasoning for the Smash 4 newcomers so far. But I'll list it again anyway.
1. Mega Man
2. Mii Fighters
3. Little Mac
4. Pac-Man
5. Villager
6. Robin
7. Palutena
8. Wii Fit Trainer
9. Rosalina
10. Lucina
11. Greninja
I'd like to do an all 51 character ranking as well. But that's where it gets kinda complicated as the list needs to be as objective as possible. I definitely think that the bottom characters of Melee especially Dr. Mario take up Dead Last. And pretty much most if not all of the Original 12 should be in the Top 20. Would anyone like to discuss what an All-Time Merit list regarding Smash Bros. would ultimately be?
If you need help on what counts for merit, this is most if not all what I account for: Overall Impact on Nintendo, Moveset Originality, Importance in their Series, Popularity, How long the Character has existed, and Impact on the Smash Bros. franchise. I also tend to view that characters that represent new IPs have more merit then additions to an already repped franchise or is a sub-series of another franchise. (Which is why Ness and Captain Falcon are above Luigi and Yoshi in my Merit rankings of the original 12) That is unless that new IP character isn't really that important to their game (Why Wii Fit Trainer is still low despite representing a new IP. You can play Wii Fit without seeing too much of the Trainer.)
My version of those lists:
Smash 64:
1. Mario
2. Pikachu
3. Link
4. Luigi
5. Kirby
6. Donkey Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Samus
9. Fox
10. Captain Falcon
11. Ness
12. Jigglypuff
Melee:
1. Bowser
2. Peach
3. Zelda
4. Mewtwo
5. Falco
6. Ganondorf
7. Roy
8. Young Link
9. Pichu
10. Mr. Game & Watch
11. Ice Climbers
12. Marth
13. Dr. Mario
Brawl coming later.
Smash 64:
1. Mario
2. Pikachu
3. Link
4. Luigi
5. Kirby
6. Donkey Kong
7. Yoshi
8. Samus
9. Fox
10. Captain Falcon
11. Ness
12. Jigglypuff
Melee:
1. Bowser
2. Peach
3. Zelda
4. Mewtwo
5. Falco
6. Ganondorf
7. Roy
8. Young Link
9. Pichu
10. Mr. Game & Watch
11. Ice Climbers
12. Marth
13. Dr. Mario
Brawl coming later.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #57
3D Player 2004 said:
Roy has more merit then Marth?
Pichu has more merit then Mr. Game and Watch and Marth too? That's ridiculous
Marth's only video game appearance is in a game only released in Japan (4 games technically). Smash Bros is an Internationally released Franchise. Get the problem. Ness somewhat gets a bye because Smash 64 was originally intended to be a Japan only game and when localizing it after it sold very well, they didn't want to remove any content.
Added a word to fix grammar.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #64
3D Player 2004 said:
But then why is Roy not below Marth and above Young Link, Pichu, Mr. Game and Watch and Ice Climbers?
And I get that, it's why Marth isn't nearer the top of my list. He's still a character with a unique moveset, and he represents a new franchise that has grown more popular since then as it moved from Japan Only to Worldwide. Which is why he at least deserves to be straight in the middle in terms of the Melee newcomers
Isn't the number 1 reason people cite Lucas as what they'd prefer to cut if a Mother rep was to be cut because Ness's game was recently released internationally through Wii U virtual console. Number 2 is original 12 status. Also, wasn't Roy's game the first Fire Emblem game to be released internationally?Baby Man said:
SonicMario
Star Spirit
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- She/her
- MarioWiki
- Smasher
also earthbound was released in america in 1995 so he's got that wrong too
granted virtual console was the first time the series appeared anywhere else but the point stands that ness wasn't japan-only like he implied
I'm considering ordering the veterans by merit myself but ehh
granted virtual console was the first time the series appeared anywhere else but the point stands that ness wasn't japan-only like he implied
I'm considering ordering the veterans by merit myself but ehh
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #69
Just want to say once more that neither of these four would make the Top 10 or the Bottom 10 from before. None of them would be completely bad inclusions, but I wouldn't say they would be all that great.
GHIRAHIM
As a bit of an outsider in regards to Legend of Zelda. Most of what I hear from the Zelda franchise is either from the Smash Bros. series itself or hear say from those who are Zelda fans. For both Ghirahim and Impa I had to research a little more because otherwise all I know is that Ghirahim in particular is an antagonist from Skyward Sword from the most recent non-Handheld Zelda game. He is apparently the lord of the demons who early in the game comes off as a calm and collected figure with a bit of an overconfidence. He's also known for being a bit flamboyant. He fights Link multiple times throughout the game. Each one he seems to be going up the Insan-O-Meter as he gets increasingly angry with each defeat he is dealt to by Link. I won't try to get into any more spoiler-ific material just in case but I did read into his ultimate fate and true form and such. But we have to get to the important part of all this. Is Ghirahim merit worthy enough for Smash Bros? To be honest, I'm really not so sure he is. The one thing that really makes me doubt him is that he's a one-shot Zelda characters. If he were in, he'd make a rather interesting new villain addition, and people love their villains in Smash. But by now it seems to me that no matter how popular a one-shot character is in Zelda, their best bet is as an Assist Trophy. And any newcomers are just going to be alternate forms of Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf. Considering we've had Young Link in Melee, Toon Link in Brawl, almost had Toon Zelda in Brawl as well, and Skull Kid & Midna are assist trophies in Smash 4 that seems like how it is to me. One-shot Zelda characters just don't seem to be targets for being playable characters at all and it doesn't bode well for Ghirahim from that point of view. However there is the trophy theory from the Direct that says that the Trophy Quizzes were hinting at newcomers. And we already had two of them shown, with Palutena & Robin being foreshadowed by the Pseudo Palutena trophy as well as the Tiki trophy. The other trophies were one of Fi and King Kihunter, people believing this means we'll have a Zelda newcomer particularly from Skyward sword. As well as a Metroid Newcomer (Particularly a certain space dragon). So this might provide some hope for Ghirahim. What also gives Ghirahim some hope is inclusions like Greninja and Rosalina's because of how new they are in their long-running franchises. Which while I said I somewhat disagreed with their inclusions. It does give newfound hope to those who are hoping for newcomers that are truly newer then new to join the fray. And hey, even if Ghirahim doesn't get into Smash. Ghirahim fans can be furious, outraged, and sick with anger as they take out an entire army with Ghirahim on his own in the upcoming Hyrule Warriors game.
IMPA
Now Impa is a character I was somewhat familiar with before too bad much of that was through the Youtube Poops where it's the old Impa from the CD-i games. Where I've seen Impa portrayed as a kooky old lady some of the time. Though in all seriousness, Impa is one of the few characters that is actually recurring in the Zelda series. She's not in every game like Link, Zelda, and some form of Ganon/Ganondorf but nonetheless she's had multiple forms to her. The one they'd use for Smash would likely be her Skyward Sword incarnation where she's as much into the action just as much as Link and Zelda were and was one of the first characters confirmed for Hyrule Warriors as well. The concern may be that Impa's claim to fame that she was the one that taught the nature of the Shiekah to Zelda in the backstory of Ocarina of Time. Meaning Impa could end up being at most a Semi-Clone of Shiek. Sort of unfair that the teacher would be accused of copying their student. But nonetheless that's how it'd be. However just to have a new Zelda newcomer that isn't another form of the other 3 might work out fine anyway even if we got a Lucina-style inclusion with Impa. Cause I'd like to be proven wrong that Nintendo cares more about Zelda characters besides just Link, Zelda, and Ganon. It's possible that Impa could be the Skyward Sword newcomer instead of Ghirahim that is hinted according to the trophy theory as well so there's hope for those who do really want Impa in the game. Just like Ghirahim though, if she's not in the game she'll be able to show just who taught Zelda all her moves as Shiek on countless enemies. She'd be much better received worldwide then Tingle that's for sure, the only other well-known recurring character in the Zelda franchise who while loved in Japan, is absolutely despised in Western Audiences. That said, time will tell if Nintendo will even allow a character that isn't another Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf represent Zelda in Smash Bros (I wouldn't be opposed however to the original Ganon showing up as his own character, but I digress)
SHULK
Now Shulk while being from a new franchise I didn't need to research too much. Because I have been exposed at least a little bit. In fact I've been watching Chuggaaconroy's let's play in the case that Shulk does indeed make it into Smash so that I'm at least a little more familiar with him. I also didn't want to research too heavily because I want to experience the story through Chuggaaconroy's let's play as it goes on. From what I've seen, Shulk is a young man who sets out to defeat the Mechon that are a terror in the world of Bionis. Xenoblade Chronicles is an RPG, but by far not a traditional one. It's very open world. The maps are HUGE, for those who rat on the Wii for being a lot weaker then the other consoles. It still managed to have a pretty much fully open-world game with Xenoblade at least. Just watching Chuggaa's let's play showed me the wonders of how big the world is in the game. Chuggaa mentions how if you can see a location in the distance, you'll be able to go to it. And he really means it. And in battles, it's not you stay in one place and wait for your turn to attack. You're actually moving around and everything. Anyway, the main thing about Shulk is that his big sword, called the Monado. And before you shrug him off as just yet another sword user and say how we've had enough swords with the Fire Emblem series alone. The Monado isn't your traditional hack and slash sword. It has magic properties to it that Link wished the Master Sword was capable of. Like allowing Shulk to see sometime into the future, he's saved his friend's lives many times using this power. I suppose the concern is that it's probably not going to be used much in Smash because predicting what your foe is going to the player's job and just slows down the gameplay if Shulk can actually get visions of what the other player is going to do. So that aspect probably won't be really too much explored for Smash Bros. but I'm sure there will be some powers of the Monado that will make Shulk feel quite different from the more traditional sword users playable in the game. There's probably stuff I still don't even know yet because I don't want to spoil myself on what else the Monado will be able to do. But anyway, Shulk would really bring a potentially great and new franchise to represent in Smash. Xenoblade is even getting a sequel on the Wii U which was the X game which had a trailer that was in all Japanese dialogue last E3. So it really looks like it could become a new franchise for Nintendo to keep making games for. If Shulk gets in, he could be the equivalent of Marth and Ness for their respective franchises as the official poster boy of the franchise even if Shulk does not appear as the main character of the sequels to Xenoblade Chronicles. As a side note, Xenoblade Chronicles has an amazing soundtrack that would make excellent fighting music. Honestly even if Shulk doesn't get in I hope a Xenoblade stage happens regardless just so they can bring some of the best tracks that I've heard from the game. They're really something. The Xenoblade community has really made the game quite a cult classic that's grown in popularity slowly over the years. Shulk's inclusion of Smash would really help the series gain more recognition. And I can already imagine a lot of what the franchise could bring into Smash. And I think overall it would be a pretty good inclusion for Smash to include such a character from a series that's only going to grow in popularity as the game receives more recognition.
DIXIE
I mentioned Dixie a few times while covering King K. Rool. And I think you pretty much know from that how I feel. I do feel that Dixie is probably the most likely DK newcomer even though they'd obviously make her a semi-clone of Diddy Kong. I just hope it doesn't entirely get in the way of K. Rool or otherwise I wouldn't be all that happy with Dixie's inclusion. Her playable role in Tropical Freeze however probably gives her priority should there be only one seat. Now I wouldn't be upset with Dixie's inclusion like how I would be with Daisy as of course the DK franchise is a pretty major one that may indeed need 3 or 4 reps at this point. And she's a much older character then Lucina, Greninja, or Rosalina so she'll have the history and everything. Given Donkey Kong Country 2, it's arguable that Diddy + Dixie is about as popular as a Video Game duo as Donkey Kong and Diddy are. If Dixie gets in, it all depends on what King K. Rool's fate is in Smash 4 on how overall I feel about it personally, however.
GHIRAHIM
As a bit of an outsider in regards to Legend of Zelda. Most of what I hear from the Zelda franchise is either from the Smash Bros. series itself or hear say from those who are Zelda fans. For both Ghirahim and Impa I had to research a little more because otherwise all I know is that Ghirahim in particular is an antagonist from Skyward Sword from the most recent non-Handheld Zelda game. He is apparently the lord of the demons who early in the game comes off as a calm and collected figure with a bit of an overconfidence. He's also known for being a bit flamboyant. He fights Link multiple times throughout the game. Each one he seems to be going up the Insan-O-Meter as he gets increasingly angry with each defeat he is dealt to by Link. I won't try to get into any more spoiler-ific material just in case but I did read into his ultimate fate and true form and such. But we have to get to the important part of all this. Is Ghirahim merit worthy enough for Smash Bros? To be honest, I'm really not so sure he is. The one thing that really makes me doubt him is that he's a one-shot Zelda characters. If he were in, he'd make a rather interesting new villain addition, and people love their villains in Smash. But by now it seems to me that no matter how popular a one-shot character is in Zelda, their best bet is as an Assist Trophy. And any newcomers are just going to be alternate forms of Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf. Considering we've had Young Link in Melee, Toon Link in Brawl, almost had Toon Zelda in Brawl as well, and Skull Kid & Midna are assist trophies in Smash 4 that seems like how it is to me. One-shot Zelda characters just don't seem to be targets for being playable characters at all and it doesn't bode well for Ghirahim from that point of view. However there is the trophy theory from the Direct that says that the Trophy Quizzes were hinting at newcomers. And we already had two of them shown, with Palutena & Robin being foreshadowed by the Pseudo Palutena trophy as well as the Tiki trophy. The other trophies were one of Fi and King Kihunter, people believing this means we'll have a Zelda newcomer particularly from Skyward sword. As well as a Metroid Newcomer (Particularly a certain space dragon). So this might provide some hope for Ghirahim. What also gives Ghirahim some hope is inclusions like Greninja and Rosalina's because of how new they are in their long-running franchises. Which while I said I somewhat disagreed with their inclusions. It does give newfound hope to those who are hoping for newcomers that are truly newer then new to join the fray. And hey, even if Ghirahim doesn't get into Smash. Ghirahim fans can be furious, outraged, and sick with anger as they take out an entire army with Ghirahim on his own in the upcoming Hyrule Warriors game.
IMPA
Now Impa is a character I was somewhat familiar with before too bad much of that was through the Youtube Poops where it's the old Impa from the CD-i games. Where I've seen Impa portrayed as a kooky old lady some of the time. Though in all seriousness, Impa is one of the few characters that is actually recurring in the Zelda series. She's not in every game like Link, Zelda, and some form of Ganon/Ganondorf but nonetheless she's had multiple forms to her. The one they'd use for Smash would likely be her Skyward Sword incarnation where she's as much into the action just as much as Link and Zelda were and was one of the first characters confirmed for Hyrule Warriors as well. The concern may be that Impa's claim to fame that she was the one that taught the nature of the Shiekah to Zelda in the backstory of Ocarina of Time. Meaning Impa could end up being at most a Semi-Clone of Shiek. Sort of unfair that the teacher would be accused of copying their student. But nonetheless that's how it'd be. However just to have a new Zelda newcomer that isn't another form of the other 3 might work out fine anyway even if we got a Lucina-style inclusion with Impa. Cause I'd like to be proven wrong that Nintendo cares more about Zelda characters besides just Link, Zelda, and Ganon. It's possible that Impa could be the Skyward Sword newcomer instead of Ghirahim that is hinted according to the trophy theory as well so there's hope for those who do really want Impa in the game. Just like Ghirahim though, if she's not in the game she'll be able to show just who taught Zelda all her moves as Shiek on countless enemies. She'd be much better received worldwide then Tingle that's for sure, the only other well-known recurring character in the Zelda franchise who while loved in Japan, is absolutely despised in Western Audiences. That said, time will tell if Nintendo will even allow a character that isn't another Link, Zelda, or Ganondorf represent Zelda in Smash Bros (I wouldn't be opposed however to the original Ganon showing up as his own character, but I digress)
SHULK
Now Shulk while being from a new franchise I didn't need to research too much. Because I have been exposed at least a little bit. In fact I've been watching Chuggaaconroy's let's play in the case that Shulk does indeed make it into Smash so that I'm at least a little more familiar with him. I also didn't want to research too heavily because I want to experience the story through Chuggaaconroy's let's play as it goes on. From what I've seen, Shulk is a young man who sets out to defeat the Mechon that are a terror in the world of Bionis. Xenoblade Chronicles is an RPG, but by far not a traditional one. It's very open world. The maps are HUGE, for those who rat on the Wii for being a lot weaker then the other consoles. It still managed to have a pretty much fully open-world game with Xenoblade at least. Just watching Chuggaa's let's play showed me the wonders of how big the world is in the game. Chuggaa mentions how if you can see a location in the distance, you'll be able to go to it. And he really means it. And in battles, it's not you stay in one place and wait for your turn to attack. You're actually moving around and everything. Anyway, the main thing about Shulk is that his big sword, called the Monado. And before you shrug him off as just yet another sword user and say how we've had enough swords with the Fire Emblem series alone. The Monado isn't your traditional hack and slash sword. It has magic properties to it that Link wished the Master Sword was capable of. Like allowing Shulk to see sometime into the future, he's saved his friend's lives many times using this power. I suppose the concern is that it's probably not going to be used much in Smash because predicting what your foe is going to the player's job and just slows down the gameplay if Shulk can actually get visions of what the other player is going to do. So that aspect probably won't be really too much explored for Smash Bros. but I'm sure there will be some powers of the Monado that will make Shulk feel quite different from the more traditional sword users playable in the game. There's probably stuff I still don't even know yet because I don't want to spoil myself on what else the Monado will be able to do. But anyway, Shulk would really bring a potentially great and new franchise to represent in Smash. Xenoblade is even getting a sequel on the Wii U which was the X game which had a trailer that was in all Japanese dialogue last E3. So it really looks like it could become a new franchise for Nintendo to keep making games for. If Shulk gets in, he could be the equivalent of Marth and Ness for their respective franchises as the official poster boy of the franchise even if Shulk does not appear as the main character of the sequels to Xenoblade Chronicles. As a side note, Xenoblade Chronicles has an amazing soundtrack that would make excellent fighting music. Honestly even if Shulk doesn't get in I hope a Xenoblade stage happens regardless just so they can bring some of the best tracks that I've heard from the game. They're really something. The Xenoblade community has really made the game quite a cult classic that's grown in popularity slowly over the years. Shulk's inclusion of Smash would really help the series gain more recognition. And I can already imagine a lot of what the franchise could bring into Smash. And I think overall it would be a pretty good inclusion for Smash to include such a character from a series that's only going to grow in popularity as the game receives more recognition.
DIXIE
I mentioned Dixie a few times while covering King K. Rool. And I think you pretty much know from that how I feel. I do feel that Dixie is probably the most likely DK newcomer even though they'd obviously make her a semi-clone of Diddy Kong. I just hope it doesn't entirely get in the way of K. Rool or otherwise I wouldn't be all that happy with Dixie's inclusion. Her playable role in Tropical Freeze however probably gives her priority should there be only one seat. Now I wouldn't be upset with Dixie's inclusion like how I would be with Daisy as of course the DK franchise is a pretty major one that may indeed need 3 or 4 reps at this point. And she's a much older character then Lucina, Greninja, or Rosalina so she'll have the history and everything. Given Donkey Kong Country 2, it's arguable that Diddy + Dixie is about as popular as a Video Game duo as Donkey Kong and Diddy are. If Dixie gets in, it all depends on what King K. Rool's fate is in Smash 4 on how overall I feel about it personally, however.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #70
I thought I'd take the chance to post a Prototype Roster Merit list of all 51 characters that have been playable in Smash in the entire franchise. I tried my best to order the characters from who are the most deserving, their originality in Smash, popularity, and more. But I won't be surprised if I still managed to get a bit of bias on my part. Like I do feel I'm somewhat putting Sonic a little too high (Though I do feel like he woud be in the Top 25 somewhere). I'd actually like to just post it to discuss a little more because I'm not entirely certain about the list I have right now.
But anyway, all the Original 12 are in the Top 20. Most of the Melee characters with their own movesets are in the Top half.
Alot of these are quite close. Doing all 51 is tough to do especially with characters I don't know alot about outside of Smash. So if you find something unforgivable about having one character above another. Please make it constructive criticism of the List and not outright thinking I'm expressing my full opinion. Because even right now I'm not sure with myself this would be the list. So the criticism of it would help out on just how wrong I am with the rankings. Also remember that I like most of these character's inclusions. It's only from Young Link (And as a result to some extent Toon Link as well) and down that I'm a bit unsure about their inclusions. So don't think I hate a character if I put them in the late 30s for example
1. Mario
2. Mega Man
3. Donkey Kong
4. Link
5. Mr. Game and Watch
6. Kirby
7. Pikachu
8. Samus
9. Sonic
10. Fox
11. Wario
12. Captain Falcon
13. Ness
14. Luigi
15. Yoshi
16. Jigglypuff
17. Bowser
18. Peach
19. Zelda
20. Marth
21. King Dedede
22. Mewtwo
23. Diddy Kong
24. Mii Fighters
25. Little Mac
26. Pokemon Trainer
27. Meta Knight
28. Pit
29. Snake
30. Ike
31. Olimar
32. ROB
33. Pac-Man
34. Villager
35. Falco
36. Palutena
37. Robin
38. Wolf
39. Lucario
40. Lucas
41. Ice Climbers
42. Ganondorf
43. Wii Fit Trainer
44. Rosalina
45. Lucina
46. Greninja
47. Toon Link
48. Young Link
49. Roy
50. Pichu
51. Dr. Mario
But anyway, all the Original 12 are in the Top 20. Most of the Melee characters with their own movesets are in the Top half.
Alot of these are quite close. Doing all 51 is tough to do especially with characters I don't know alot about outside of Smash. So if you find something unforgivable about having one character above another. Please make it constructive criticism of the List and not outright thinking I'm expressing my full opinion. Because even right now I'm not sure with myself this would be the list. So the criticism of it would help out on just how wrong I am with the rankings. Also remember that I like most of these character's inclusions. It's only from Young Link (And as a result to some extent Toon Link as well) and down that I'm a bit unsure about their inclusions. So don't think I hate a character if I put them in the late 30s for example
1. Mario
2. Mega Man
3. Donkey Kong
4. Link
5. Mr. Game and Watch
6. Kirby
7. Pikachu
8. Samus
9. Sonic
10. Fox
11. Wario
12. Captain Falcon
13. Ness
14. Luigi
15. Yoshi
16. Jigglypuff
17. Bowser
18. Peach
19. Zelda
20. Marth
21. King Dedede
22. Mewtwo
23. Diddy Kong
24. Mii Fighters
25. Little Mac
26. Pokemon Trainer
27. Meta Knight
28. Pit
29. Snake
30. Ike
31. Olimar
32. ROB
33. Pac-Man
34. Villager
35. Falco
36. Palutena
37. Robin
38. Wolf
39. Lucario
40. Lucas
41. Ice Climbers
42. Ganondorf
43. Wii Fit Trainer
44. Rosalina
45. Lucina
46. Greninja
47. Toon Link
48. Young Link
49. Roy
50. Pichu
51. Dr. Mario
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #72
El LuigiNúmero1 said:
I think at the time I suppose I was just going for if the character was important and they had an original moveset they were assured a bigger one then those that were important but also were a bit clone-ish of other characters.
But this is why this is just the prototype list, cause it does feel like Luigi and Wario should probably switch places. They're not that far away from eachother anyhow.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
- Thread starter
- #74
Meloetta said:
Greninja's low because he's too soon. And I mean really too soon. At least he's not Roy which was promoting a game that wasn't even out yet nor was it going to be released in places outside of Japan anyway so it feels like a waste in Western Markets. But I feel Greninja's inclusion goes against the ideal situation where characters in Smash earn or deserve their spots on the Roster. While Smash Bros. has always been kind of a promotional vehicle (Especially since alot of the character reveals in Smash 4 have been with the "Want to know more about *insert character name* go to the official website for *most recently released game related to the character*!"), most of the characters even all the previous Pokemon representatives still had something for them and at least a good two years for people to recognize them between the game they debuted in and the release of the Smash game they were new to. Every Pokemon, even the more blatant current gen reps Pichu and Lucario had some degree of notability. Pichu being a preevolved form of Pikachu introduced in Generation 2 and also had a feature in a short prior to the 3rd Pokemon movie with the Pichu Bros. Lucario being a new type of Pokemon to represent Generation 4, and also had a feature in the movie Lucario and the Mystery of Mew. Really, Froakie (Greninja's first pre-evolved form) had more recognition then Greninja did purely for being shown as one of the three starters. And the movie appearance that Greninja will have isn't even out yet (Outside of Japan that is), and even considering that movie. Greninja's one of the Antagonist's pokemon rather then one of the main features of the movie like Lucario was. Greninja's debut game won't even be year old when Smash Bros. on the 3DS comes out. Regardless of how unique his moveset is, Greninja's inclusion goes against everything we know about character inclusions up to this point. What has Greninja done to specifically earn his spot in Smash? I can't think of any other reason then Gamefreak just happened to choose him to promote Pokemon X&Y.
I don't hate Greninja. But he is my least favorite inclusion in Smash 4 so far. I might be out of the loop with Pokemon ever since I kinda stopped being a big Pokemon fan in the middle of Generation 3. But even I understood why Lucario was included. I don't exactly get the reasoning for Greninja
As for Mega Man being too high. Yeah probably. But it's kinda tough to make the call. I think he's AT LEAST Top 10 for being the most deserving 3rd Party (Yes, even I admit Megaman is far more deserving then Sonic despite how much Sonic is my favorite inclusion in the series).
