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But it does say so, in the beginning paragraph. I just find it unnecessary to dedicate an entire section describing Dr. Mario's attire and physical abilities (with the vast majority of physical abilities probably derived from Super Smash Bros. games anyway). Overall, I think a general information section is a bit redundant.
 
...All right, fine. One minor thing (more of a question than anything, don't count this as a strike against the nomination) is this line in DM64: "Dr. Mario also received several subtle aesthetic changes." It mentions gaining a tie, but I can't actually notice what it means by that. Would it be possible to clarify on that point?
 
Shulk said:
...All right, fine. One minor thing (more of a question than anything, don't count this as a strike against the nomination) is this line in DM64: "Dr. Mario also received several subtle aesthetic changes." It mentions gaining a tie, but I can't actually notice what it means by that. Would it be possible to clarify on that point?
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The first versions of Dr. Mario doesn't have a visible tie, but in Dr. Mario from Dr. Mario 64 is shown wearing a tie. Pretty simple.

DrM_Megavitamin.jpg
323px-DrMarioAdvance.png
 
Shulk said:
I was more referring to the "subtle aesthetic changes" bit, as in I don't actually know what changes it's referring to.
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Like, he's wearing his tie and his body build is slightly different. So yeah, it's subtle stuff.
 
I feel like I'm doing a PAIR review for Wario, which I believe should be unfeatured. It's great if you can read it, but I hope the chunks of paragraphs is enough to convince people.
 
All right, Time Turner, you brought some good points. I support it.
 
Okay, I might have to beef up the article.
 
I've opposed it, for reasons
 
Before I go around updating this dusty list, I've seen several flaws in Super Mario Sunshine article.

  • The glaringly scant reception section. It has an improvement template since you don't actually have to scrutinize this article to find it.
  • Plot section looks questionably long, although I'd like someone to actually read it to see if it can be majorly trimmed, because it could be long for a reason.
  • Staff section leaves some to be desired
  • "Locations" doesn't tell us much. Don't most locations require a certain amount of Shine Sprites? Maybe a map of Delfino Plaza would do?
  • "Secret levels" section is pretty messy and it has a weirdly high amount of detail that appears that it could've been its own article, but that's another discussion, I guess.
  • Item section is pretty bleh.
  • Controls section isn't also very good. I'd say it can do with a clearer and more-detailed explanation of each move: more specifically, the types of jumps.
  • Expansion on nozzle types.
  • Enemies could use a table, although acquiring screenshots might be much more difficult than using sprites
  • "Koji Kondo and Shinobu Tanaka produced the music for this game." And that's the last line in the gameplay section, why?

The gameplay section has me thinking: should there be a standard for these gameplay sections? Everything seems to be stuffed into one big section. Should we divide this "gameplay section" into subsections like "objective", "controls", and other things, perhaps "major elements" "items" "enemies", etc.?
 
Also, I'm not entirely happy with what we have regarding the Fawful article, but I'm not sure if it's worthy to be unfeatured or not. I'll have to scrutinize it later.
 
I'm just at the intro, and I'm already disappointed. The second sentence alone leads in with his funny dialogue being what he's known for (which isn't wrong, necessarily, but I think his antagonistic behaviour is just a bit notable as well), claiming that it's Engrish, speculating about its origins, and calling the food references he occasionally makes both prevalent (at least that's what I assume, since "he is notable" for it) and obscure. Also, "Fawful is a mechanical genius, but his common sense suffers due to his extreme fury, which often causes him to act in a delusional manner," goddamn if that doesn't sound like it hasn't been changed since yesteryear, especially with trying to shoehorn in his sorta-catchphrase as an actual part of his personality (and I'm not actually far off). The wiki's standards have changed since 2009, and they definitely do not accommodate this kind of writing.
 
I also don't like how the story section is handled. It really does feel like 2007 with some minor improvements of 2009, but not really up to current standards, IMO.

After his defeat, he begins a final attack in desperation, entering a banter-fest with Prince Peasley, but is knocked out of the castle before Mario and Luigi engage his mistress and her soul, the latter of which conjures an apparition of Fawful as one of its attacks.
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He is officially confirmed to have gained his status as the greatest of Cackletta's students through his evil genius.
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"Official"? We don't really know his credibility. Who "confirmed" this? He could be overinflating himself. Just remove "official" and replace "confirmed" with the more-dubious "claimed".

The villainous pair next assaults Woohoo Hooniversity, where he and Cackletta plan to awaken the Beanstar using several Peach-bots, Fawful had designed. However, due to some planning on the princess's part, the voice used is that of Birdo, which irritates the Beanstar so much that it smashes through the floor and into the basement.
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Flowery writing. But, the "due to some planning on the princess's part" is extra confusing to me as a reader. What planning? How did they acquire Birdo's voice? I didn't understand that part in the game, but this article doesn't clear it up.

He has Bowser fight the Sea Pipe Statue, only to later tell the victorious Koopa King that he has captured his minions.
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His actions show hardly any sign of his caring about anyone other than himself.
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This line has never worked for me in the MarioWiki. He's a video game villain. It's a trademark of them. If they actually do show caring, that's noteworthy.

Fawful's "Power and abilities" section discusses really his attack patterns in battle rather than his actual abilities. Although I'm not sure how else where it would fit (it would bloat the history section, I assume?), it's kind of a misleading title, so I'm still bringing it up.

Super Mario-kun should have a bit more details. It's apparent that we have some access to that medium, so a few more details just by looking at the pictures do help.

Finally, official statistics and profiles look incredibly tacky. I despise those RPG infobox templates' designs, I really do.



I'm also going to scrutinize Iggy Koopa as well for any major flaws since I feel the nomination was passed without a lot of discussion about it. I'm just doubting its overall quality, although I could be wrong.
 
Mario Party Δ said:
The villainous pair next assaults Woohoo Hooniversity, where he and Cackletta plan to awaken the Beanstar using several Peach-bots, Fawful had designed. However, due to some planning on the princess's part, the voice used is that of Birdo, which irritates the Beanstar so much that it smashes through the floor and into the basement.
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Flowery writing. But, the "due to some planning on the princess's part" is extra confusing to me as a reader. What planning? How did they acquire Birdo's voice? I didn't understand that part in the game, but this article doesn't clear it up.
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Basically, Peach and the other good guys, plumbers excluded, knew about Cackletta's plan to steal her voice, so they set up Birdo to take Peach's place when Cackletta and Fawful come in to steal her voice while the real Princess was left unharmed. When they play "Princess Peach's voice" to the Beanstar, they're actually playing Birdo's voice and not a voice from a pure and noble soul, which makes the Beanstar go nuts. I think explaining this should be necessary in the article, and it's better than a vague mention of Peach's plan, but I'm not quite sure how to handle inserting that into the article, though; do we mention it in the intro alongside Peach's voice being stolen (mock-up: Cackletta and Fawful disguise themselves to steal Peach's voice; however, unbeknownst to them, they stole Birdo's voice, who took the place of Peach and yaddayaddayadda), even though this isn't clarified until later in the game, or do we mention it once the Beanstar goes berserk (mock-up: Once Fawful plays Peach's voice, the Beanstar goes berserk and crashes through the floor; this is because they actually stole Birdo's voice, who yaddayaddayadda), which is closer to when the player actually finds out about it? It's just a minor detail that's been bugging me since I rewrote Peasley's article.

Though he is a bit of a loon, Fawful is a genius, shown by how complex his Vacuum Helmet is.
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I have disappointment. Why does the article keep pushing that Fawful created every robot he uses when I'm almost certain isn't mentioned anywhere except a vague throwaway line in the manual? I'm more than tempted to nominate it for unfeaturing now.
 
Time Turner said:
Mario Party Δ said:
The villainous pair next assaults Woohoo Hooniversity, where he and Cackletta plan to awaken the Beanstar using several Peach-bots, Fawful had designed. However, due to some planning on the princess's part, the voice used is that of Birdo, which irritates the Beanstar so much that it smashes through the floor and into the basement.
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Flowery writing. But, the "due to some planning on the princess's part" is extra confusing to me as a reader. What planning? How did they acquire Birdo's voice? I didn't understand that part in the game, but this article doesn't clear it up.
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Basically, Peach and the other good guys, plumbers excluded, knew about Cackletta's plan to steal her voice, so they set up Birdo to take Peach's place when Cackletta and Fawful come in to steal her voice while the real Princess was left unharmed. When they play "Princess Peach's voice" to the Beanstar, they're actually playing Birdo's voice and not a voice from a pure and noble soul, which makes the Beanstar go nuts. I think explaining this should be necessary in the article, and it's better than a vague mention of Peach's plan, but I'm not quite sure how to handle inserting that into the article, though; do we mention it in the intro alongside Peach's voice being stolen (mock-up: Cackletta and Fawful disguise themselves to steal Peach's voice; however, unbeknownst to them, they stole Birdo's voice, who took the place of Peach and yaddayaddayadda), even though this isn't clarified until later in the game, or do we mention it once the Beanstar goes berserk (mock-up: Once Fawful plays Peach's voice, the Beanstar goes berserk and crashes through the floor; this is because they actually stole Birdo's voice, who yaddayaddayadda), which is closer to when the player actually finds out about it? It's just a minor detail that's been bugging me since I rewrote Peasley's article.
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Yeah, that "plan" in the game has always been poorly written out, even by your clarification. I blame it on the people who wrote the script. I mean, this "explanation" makes NO sense whatsoever. Even with the visuals and the cinema that shows what's ACTUALLY going on. Geez whizz.

Time Turner said:
Though he is a bit of a loon, Fawful is a genius, shown by how complex his Vacuum Helmet is.
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I have disappointment. Why does the article keep pushing that Fawful created every robot he uses when I'm almost certain isn't mentioned anywhere except a vague throwaway line in the manual? I'm more than tempted to nominate it for unfeaturing now.
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Please do. I'm in the mood for unfeaturing it.

Meanwhile, can you take a look at Super Mario Sunshine? It technically already qualifies for unfeaturing thanks to that reception section, but I think it has more problems than that.
 
Mario Party Δ said:
Yeah, that "plan" in the game has always been poorly written out, even by your clarification. I blame it on the people who wrote the script. I mean, this "explanation" makes NO sense whatsoever. Even with the visuals and the cinema that shows what's ACTUALLY going on. Geez whizz.
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Tbh, I don't have a problem understanding it. Cackletta's whole plan is that the Beanstar can only be used if someone with a "pure and noble soul" speaks to it, so the Kingdom would have been screwed if radio was ever invented. Peach is the only person who has a noble and pure soul, so her voice would wake up the Beanstar. Thus, Cackletta and Fawful plot to steal it. However, everyone except the plumbers was already aware of Cackletta's plans. The Peach that we see in the intro (which we have on the wiki, apparently) is not actually Peach; it's Birdo in a disguise. Cackletta and Fawful steal the voice of Birdo, thinking that it's actually Peach. When they play Birdo's voice to the Beanstar, it goes nuts because it's not Peach's voice. I kinda feel like a broken record at this point, but what don't you get about it?
Mario Party Δ said:
Meanwhile, can you take a look at Super Mario Sunshine? It technically already qualifies for unfeaturing thanks to that reception section, but I think it has more problems than that.
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The game starts off in the Toad Express, where Mario, Princess Peach, a few Toads, and Toadsworth are flying out to Isle Delfino for a vacation. A TV screen on the Toad Express is showing an advertisement of Isle Delfino. Mario is mainly interested in the food there, while Toadsworth is mainly interested in the rest he will get when they land on the island. Peach, however, sees a Mario-shaped shadow figure jumping around in the background. She doesn't know what it could be.
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She doesn't know what it could be.
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Besides the story listing every single thing that happens instead of summarizing the important bits and talking about the gameplay as if it was actually a part of the narrative, the writing as a whole comes off as rather mediocre to me.

Super Mario Sunshine is the first game where Mario extensively uses an accessory to complete his mission.
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this is unimportant and extremely vague

Gameplay is based around collecting Shine Sprites by completing various tasks in the levels and over world, very similar to Super Mario 64, but with Shine Sprites instead of Power Stars.
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But what does he actually do to get those Shine Sprites? I'm not talking about listing every mission, but just some of the standard stuff that Mario has to do, like defeating bosses, removing graffiti (FLUDD's cleaning capabilities isn't mentioned at all in the gameplay section, btw), collecting 100 coins/8 red coins, and this would also be a good place to nest the secret levels instead of having the section float by itself with way more detail than necessary.

On a whole, I agree with what you've written below, and the article really shouldn't be featured, imo.
 
Time Turner said:
Tbh, I don't have a problem understanding it. Cackletta's whole plan is that the Beanstar can only be used if someone with a "pure and noble soul" speaks to it, so the Kingdom would have been screwed if radio was ever invented. Peach is the only person who has a noble and pure soul, so her voice would wake up the Beanstar. Thus, Cackletta and Fawful plot to steal it. However, everyone except the plumbers was already aware of Cackletta's plans. The Peach that we see in the intro (which we have on the wiki, apparently) is not actually Peach; it's Birdo in a disguise. Cackletta and Fawful steal the voice of Birdo, thinking that it's actually Peach. When they play Birdo's voice to the Beanstar, it goes nuts because it's not Peach's voice. I kinda feel like a broken record at this point, but what don't you get about it?
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This is exactly what I don't understand about it. It's a very weak and unconvincing plot twist. But enough with that, let's go into the quality of these articles.

Time Turner said:
Mario Party Δ said:
Meanwhile, can you take a look at Super Mario Sunshine? It technically already qualifies for unfeaturing thanks to that reception section, but I think it has more problems than that.
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The game starts off in the Toad Express, where Mario, Princess Peach, a few Toads, and Toadsworth are flying out to Isle Delfino for a vacation. A TV screen on the Toad Express is showing an advertisement of Isle Delfino. Mario is mainly interested in the food there, while Toadsworth is mainly interested in the rest he will get when they land on the island. Peach, however, sees a Mario-shaped shadow figure jumping around in the background. She doesn't know what it could be.
Click to expand...
She doesn't know what it could be.
Click to expand...

Besides the story listing every single thing that happens instead of summarizing the important bits and talking about the gameplay as if it was actually a part of the narrative, the writing as a whole comes off as rather mediocre to me.

Super Mario Sunshine is the first game where Mario extensively uses an accessory to complete his mission.
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this is unimportant and extremely vague

Gameplay is based around collecting Shine Sprites by completing various tasks in the levels and over world, very similar to Super Mario 64, but with Shine Sprites instead of Power Stars.
Click to expand...

But what does he actually do to get those Shine Sprites? I'm not talking about listing every mission, but just some of the standard stuff that Mario has to do, like defeating bosses, removing graffiti (FLUDD's cleaning capabilities isn't mentioned at all in the gameplay section, btw), collecting 100 coins/8 red coins, and this would also be a good place to nest the secret levels instead of having the section float by itself with way more detail than necessary.

On a whole, I agree with what you've written below, and the article really shouldn't be featured, imo.
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All right. I was also wondering if anyone saw my post or if it qualifies as nitpicking. I'm going to prepare an unfeaturing nomination for Sunshine as well, soon.
 
Lakitu is a featured article that has a maintenance tag for more images. Quickly going through the article, it's not horribly-bleak, but there's still a decent, if below-average, number of images. I wanted a second opinion if I should pursue an unfeature, because the grammar also isn't terrible, but still not that great ("While in the golden state, if the player manages to take a cloud from the Lakitu, the cloud generates coins similarly to a Gold Block (which is very fast).") and there are some noticeable one-liner sections.
 
I think Lakitu is fine so far. All its flaws can be corrected with a few edits. The image amount is completely reasonable, in my opinion.

How are the one-liner sections? Is there a way to expand them without padding it? Because for things like Yoshi's Island DS, there's really nothing left to add.

…include a reasonable number of images of good quality if said images are available.
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This is a guideline for an FA and Lakitu doesn't break that, even if image quantity is below average. I'd say remove the improvement template.
 
Neo Bowser City got nominated.

I think it's a run-of-the-mill Mario Kart track article, but I don't know if that alone should be the difference between featured article or not.
 
I find the article very... eh. The course layout seems a bit short, though I don't know enough about Mario Kart to say something definitive about that, but otherwise, I don't really think it's worth touting as one of our best articles.
 
Just think of it this way: if this article gets featured, can you imagine yourself in the future saying, "Nah, it's not really much" and nominating it to be unfeatured (something like what you did to Baby Donkey Kong)? Speaking of Baby Donkey Kong, they're both comparable lengths... Again, Macho Grubba is shorter than both of them, but it's packed with text...
 
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