New Super Mario
Ghirahim
Well they still are, to me.Elsa said:
I mean, that's like saying Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game because Game Freak makes it.
Frozen (Disney's The Snow Queen adaption)
- Thread starter Smashgoom202
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I mean, that's like saying Pokemon isn't a Nintendo game because Game Freak makes it.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
Elsa said:
I'm not bashing her for lack of intelligence (although she does have a tendency to not think things through), I just feel like Anna's quest would have been much more moving if she actually accomplished something. At the very least convinced Elsa come back.
Plus, what did you find so great about her character? Other than her persistence, she doesn't have much in terms of character but her naïvité and love for Elsa.
Plus, what did you find so great about her character? Other than her persistence, she doesn't have much in terms of character but her naïvité and love for Elsa.
Elsa said:
Aha, no. It's not Elsa's fault for losing track of her emotions because Anna clearly was upsetting them each time. Elsa clearly knew that she was losing control of her emotions and therefore her powers each time, and gave Anna plenty of fair warning. If I had magic ice powers that reacted to my emotions, and I was getting upset, I'd probably try to tell people to stay away as well, purely out of concern for their safety.
Elsa said:
It's not so much as that she didn't accomplish much (although she didn't). She's just a bad character because all she has is persistence, naïvité, and love for Elsa. Which aren't really deep emotions.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Anna comes across as really immature as opposed to Elsa, who basically has the weight of the world on her shoulders?
I guess what I'm trying to say is that Anna comes across as really immature as opposed to Elsa, who basically has the weight of the world on her shoulders?
also
yeah, i agree with this. when one company has been stuck to another one for most of their existence, they're basically the same company. which is why people don't consider marvel and star wars the same as disney, because they've been separate for a long time.Olaf said:
eventually, sure, they'll be considered part of disney. but that's because by then they'll have synced with disney enough to be a part of them, like pixar has.
Nabber
Artisanal Cheese Taster
Thrawn said:
Love isn't a deep emotion now? What did you expect from her, to literally grovel at Elsa's feet? I honestly don't know how much deeper you can get than love.
All Elsa had was anxiety. That's Disney's fault, really, for not focusing on Elsa more. I think Elsa is a great character. But she's pretty much definied by anxiety and an inability to control her emotions, which is not really much better than naïvité. And persistence is important, too. I mean, it takes a lot to be willing to scale a mountain in the freezing cold (you live in NC, so I guess you don't know, but snow is pretty freaking cold) in an attempt to calm down a rampaging witch who's lied and ignored you your whole life. And she did all this not out of fear, but out of love. And that's what's great about her - that Anna never lost faith in her sister.
And you know what? Anna did a pretty good job of trying to calm Elsa down. She reassured Elsa, told her that as long as she was open-minded they could tackle anything together, and that Elsa just needed to calm down. And Elsa didn't, and that's not really her fault, but you can't really blame Anna for that. Anna wasn't being forceful, she wasn't being mean, she was calm and caring and that's really nice. She didn't bring up anything against Elsa (well, in the outtakes for the movie she did, but sadly that wasn't shown here). If Anna stayed away from Elsa like you think she should have, then she still wouldn't have accomplished anything (besides abandoning her sister).
I guess your problem is that you only see progress that has a tangible form. Anna did accomplish things in the movie, though - she herself realized that you can't be rash in your impressions of a person, and she also help Elsa that by isolation herself from the world, she was only hurting people more (for more information, look up "Life's Too Short")
All Elsa had was anxiety. That's Disney's fault, really, for not focusing on Elsa more. I think Elsa is a great character. But she's pretty much definied by anxiety and an inability to control her emotions, which is not really much better than naïvité. And persistence is important, too. I mean, it takes a lot to be willing to scale a mountain in the freezing cold (you live in NC, so I guess you don't know, but snow is pretty freaking cold) in an attempt to calm down a rampaging witch who's lied and ignored you your whole life. And she did all this not out of fear, but out of love. And that's what's great about her - that Anna never lost faith in her sister.
And you know what? Anna did a pretty good job of trying to calm Elsa down. She reassured Elsa, told her that as long as she was open-minded they could tackle anything together, and that Elsa just needed to calm down. And Elsa didn't, and that's not really her fault, but you can't really blame Anna for that. Anna wasn't being forceful, she wasn't being mean, she was calm and caring and that's really nice. She didn't bring up anything against Elsa (well, in the outtakes for the movie she did, but sadly that wasn't shown here). If Anna stayed away from Elsa like you think she should have, then she still wouldn't have accomplished anything (besides abandoning her sister).
I guess your problem is that you only see progress that has a tangible form. Anna did accomplish things in the movie, though - she herself realized that you can't be rash in your impressions of a person, and she also help Elsa that by isolation herself from the world, she was only hurting people more (for more information, look up "Life's Too Short")
And it's not.Olaf said:
I don't like giving credit where it's not due. Nintendo didn't make Pokemon, Disney didn't make Toy Story, so neither should get credit for it.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
Elsa said:
Well, considering a loyal animal would be capable of the same kind of love as Anna shows, it doesn't really expose her humanity.
What I'm saying is more about we don't see how Anna has to struggle and improve as a character. She is the same at the end of the movie as she was at the beginning, only now she has learned that love at first sight doesn't exist. That's it. Whereas with Elsa and Christoph, they've clearly changed as characters due to their struggles throughout the story.
What I'm saying is more about we don't see how Anna has to struggle and improve as a character. She is the same at the end of the movie as she was at the beginning, only now she has learned that love at first sight doesn't exist. That's it. Whereas with Elsa and Christoph, they've clearly changed as characters due to their struggles throughout the story.
Elsa said:
*SC. And yes, I know what cold is. I've left the state before.
No, I think Elsa had more to her character. It's not about anxiety for her, it's about how she both wants to be free but at the same time has to face the harsh reality that she is actually dangerous to others. She's not bad at controlling her emotions, given that she manages to hold off for quite some time under Anna's emotional assault(s). But she is human, and therefore not perfect at it. She's not simply afraid of letting her guard down because she's anxious, it's because she has a tendency to HURT PEOPLE WHEN SHE DOES. So while Elsa's busy trying to balance her love for Anna with the fact that the closer she gets to Anna, the more likely it is that she'll hurt her. Which is an interesting and difficult inner conflict for a character to go through.
Also, Elsa wasn't emotionally freaking out because she's scared of interacting with people. It's because she has just learned that she just inadvertently messed up the weather and has stranded a bunch of people.
No, I think Elsa had more to her character. It's not about anxiety for her, it's about how she both wants to be free but at the same time has to face the harsh reality that she is actually dangerous to others. She's not bad at controlling her emotions, given that she manages to hold off for quite some time under Anna's emotional assault(s). But she is human, and therefore not perfect at it. She's not simply afraid of letting her guard down because she's anxious, it's because she has a tendency to HURT PEOPLE WHEN SHE DOES. So while Elsa's busy trying to balance her love for Anna with the fact that the closer she gets to Anna, the more likely it is that she'll hurt her. Which is an interesting and difficult inner conflict for a character to go through.
Also, Elsa wasn't emotionally freaking out because she's scared of interacting with people. It's because she has just learned that she just inadvertently messed up the weather and has stranded a bunch of people.
Elsa said:
Anna is completely not understanding of her sister's own problems. The first time, she thinks Elsa is just being selfish and not letting other people close because she doesn't want to. Which, admittedly, isn't Anna's fault. The second time, though, after she has clearly seen what Elsa is capable of, and should understand why Elsa has been hiding away all this time, she doesn't try to sympathize with Elsa and say that they just need to work this out, that it'll take time but eventually she'll get it under control. Instead Anna decides to, again, rail on her for shutting people out. Anna doesn't listen when Elsa says that I'M KIND OF FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW, PLEASE GO BEFORE I HURT YOU. Which leads to Anna getting hurt, Elsa feeling terrible even though it's not her fault, and a wonderful Nice Job Breaking It, Hero moment.
Elsa said:
It's not just about tangible progress. Over the course of the story, Anna didn't really gain any character development, whereas Elsa definitely has.
And about Anna achieving things - other than the impressions one, I would disagree. Elsa wasn't hurting the world by her isolation. I mean sure, she needed to come down and fix the problem of infinite winter, but other than that she was only helping people by being isolated.
And about Anna achieving things - other than the impressions one, I would disagree. Elsa wasn't hurting the world by her isolation. I mean sure, she needed to come down and fix the problem of infinite winter, but other than that she was only helping people by being isolated.
also i totally agree with you in that they definitely should have focused more on elsa. i think she should have been the protagonist of the movie.
Nabber
Artisanal Cheese Taster
"Instead Anna decides to, again, rail on her for shutting people out. Anna doesn't listen when Elsa says that I'M KIND OF FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW, PLEASE GO BEFORE I HURT YOU."
Really? Yes, in the beginning, it sounds like that, but she's just pleading to Elsa to actually listen to what she has to say. But the reason you're not understanding that Anna was actually sympathetic is because Elsa's was shutting her out again, to the point where you don't even seem to hear the correct lyrics to the song.
Lyrics, courtsey to Disney Wiki (i have the actual lyric sheet from the soundtrack but i'm too lazy to type it all up)
Anna was trying to get Elsa to listen to her! She was actually being very supportive and optimistic, but Elsa kept shutting her out. I guess you didn't hear that part, but Anna was always supportive of her sister.
As for her character development? Yes, it's minor in light of Elsa's character development, but that's really because Anna's a foil to Elsa. And it's not until Anna sacrifices herself that Elsa learns her lesson. If it were not for Anna, then essentially, everything would be a lot worse.
You said earlier that Anna is the cause of the story, but it's not. Really, it's the parent's fault for shutting her daughter in for so long, but it's also partly Elsa's fault - she isolated herself so much more than she needed to, and she refused to listen to Anna. When Anna tried to talk to her at the coronation party, Elsa refused to talk to her, and that's pretty much her attitude for the whole movie until the climax.
Is Anna naive? Yes. Is she rash? Yes. Can she be ignorant of other's feelings? At times, yes. But she's also optimistic, faithful, and trusting. If you want to compare her to a basic animal, that's fine for you, but I can't help but feel that you're being clouded by your love for ice powers, because essentially, all of our emotions can be shown through animals.
Really? Yes, in the beginning, it sounds like that, but she's just pleading to Elsa to actually listen to what she has to say. But the reason you're not understanding that Anna was actually sympathetic is because Elsa's was shutting her out again, to the point where you don't even seem to hear the correct lyrics to the song.
Lyrics, courtsey to Disney Wiki (i have the actual lyric sheet from the soundtrack but i'm too lazy to type it all up)
Anna was trying to get Elsa to listen to her! She was actually being very supportive and optimistic, but Elsa kept shutting her out. I guess you didn't hear that part, but Anna was always supportive of her sister.
As for her character development? Yes, it's minor in light of Elsa's character development, but that's really because Anna's a foil to Elsa. And it's not until Anna sacrifices herself that Elsa learns her lesson. If it were not for Anna, then essentially, everything would be a lot worse.
You said earlier that Anna is the cause of the story, but it's not. Really, it's the parent's fault for shutting her daughter in for so long, but it's also partly Elsa's fault - she isolated herself so much more than she needed to, and she refused to listen to Anna. When Anna tried to talk to her at the coronation party, Elsa refused to talk to her, and that's pretty much her attitude for the whole movie until the climax.
Is Anna naive? Yes. Is she rash? Yes. Can she be ignorant of other's feelings? At times, yes. But she's also optimistic, faithful, and trusting. If you want to compare her to a basic animal, that's fine for you, but I can't help but feel that you're being clouded by your love for ice powers, because essentially, all of our emotions can be shown through animals.
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Disney didn't make the successful Toy Story, anyway. They can get credit for almost fucking it up.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
Elsa said:"Instead Anna decides to, again, rail on her for shutting people out. Anna doesn't listen when Elsa says that I'M KIND OF FREAKING OUT RIGHT NOW, PLEASE GO BEFORE I HURT YOU."
Really? Yes, in the beginning, it sounds like that, but she's just pleading to Elsa to actually listen to what she has to say. But the reason you're not understanding that Anna was actually sympathetic is because Elsa's was shutting her out again, to the point where you don't even seem to hear the correct lyrics to the song.
Lyrics, courtsey to Disney Wiki (i have the actual lyric sheet from the soundtrack but i'm too lazy to type it all up)
Anna was trying to get Elsa to listen to her! She was actually being very supportive and optimistic, but Elsa kept shutting her out. I guess you didn't hear that part, but Anna was always supportive of her sister.
As for her character development? Yes, it's minor in light of Elsa's character development, but that's really because Anna's a foil to Elsa. And it's not until Anna sacrifices herself that Elsa learns her lesson. If it were not for Anna, then essentially, everything would be a lot worse.
You said earlier that Anna is the cause of the story, but it's not. Really, it's the parent's fault for shutting her daughter in for so long, but it's also partly Elsa's fault - she isolated herself so much more than she needed to, and she refused to listen to Anna. When Anna tried to talk to her at the coronation party, Elsa refused to talk to her, and that's pretty much her attitude for the whole movie until the climax.
Is Anna naive? Yes. Is she rash? Yes. Can she be ignorant of other's feelings? At times, yes. But she's also optimistic, faithful, and trusting. If you want to compare her to a basic animal, that's fine for you, but I can't help but feel that you're being clouded by your love for ice powers, because essentially, all of our emotions can be shown through animals.
What you see as Anna refusing to give up on Elsa, I see as Anna (unintentionally) provoking her sister. Maybe it's because I'm an older sibling that I empathize with Elsa here, but to me it looks like Elsa was at a weak moment (remember, she just learned that the entire kingdom is doomed because of her). Which is not at all a good time for your insufferable, annoying younger sibling to keep pestering you with "no don't worry it's all fine! we'll work this out!" etc. Sometimes you just need to give your loved ones some space, and Anna fails spectacularly at this.
I agree with you on it being the parents' fault in the first place for trapping Elsa inside, but Anna definitely provoked Elsa both times.
And I disagree on human emotions being able to be displayed through animals. I don't think you could have shown complex emotions such as Elsa's loving her sister but at the same time having to keep her distance so she doesn't hurt her. And to me, complex emotions are what make interesting characters, not simple puppy love like Anna's.
I agree with you on it being the parents' fault in the first place for trapping Elsa inside, but Anna definitely provoked Elsa both times.
And I disagree on human emotions being able to be displayed through animals. I don't think you could have shown complex emotions such as Elsa's loving her sister but at the same time having to keep her distance so she doesn't hurt her. And to me, complex emotions are what make interesting characters, not simple puppy love like Anna's.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
I've definitely had that feeling where you're just so upset you honestly have no idea what you're about to do, and you're barely keeping yourself in check before. And that is exactly the wrong time for someone to try to cheer you up, because that just angers you even more. Which is why I totally empathize with Elsa there.
But I guess there can be different interpretations for the same thing. Mine is still right though. : P
It is now bitchElsa said:
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While I have mostly nothing wrong with it, the Pixar movies nowadays sell a lot of merchandise, especially after Disney acquired it. I would be lying to say that the Pixar today feels the same compared to Pixar-before-Disney
Except Nintendo is responsible for publishing and distributing the games; Pokemon is definitely under the Nintendo license. This is like saying Mario & Wario isn't a Nintendo game because Nintendo didn't make it. GameFreak lies as a branch of Nintendo that makes exclusively games that Nintendo publishes.
That being said, Nintendo should not receive credit or blame when it comes to the quality of the games. GameFreak is responsible for that.
This is the same thing for Disney.
Elsa said:
Except Nintendo is responsible for publishing and distributing the games; Pokemon is definitely under the Nintendo license. This is like saying Mario & Wario isn't a Nintendo game because Nintendo didn't make it. GameFreak lies as a branch of Nintendo that makes exclusively games that Nintendo publishes.
That being said, Nintendo should not receive credit or blame when it comes to the quality of the games. GameFreak is responsible for that.
This is the same thing for Disney.
http://everythingwrongwithfrozen.tumblr.com/
This article is so eye-widening. It really makes you realize how many mistakes there were in this movie. I didn't notice them until I read this article, and man, I'm starting to second-guess if Frozen is my favorite movie, or if I was simply a fool that did not get all these things when I watched it.
This article is so eye-widening. It really makes you realize how many mistakes there were in this movie. I didn't notice them until I read this article, and man, I'm starting to second-guess if Frozen is my favorite movie, or if I was simply a fool that did not get all these things when I watched it.
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BMB, you must have been blind.
DragonFreak
Everything that drowns me makes me wanna fly!
I really want to look at this link, but it's probably majorly spoily. hmmmmmm....Anna said:
Mario4Ever said:
Shush, you'll ruin it for the other people that see it!
But they do raise one point that I know many people were complaining about.
This is set in Denmark iirc, and I know the background. However, some people were commenting about how the movie was too...white. Like, everyone in the movie was completely white. I mean, I can name tons of other Disney Movies were that is the case, so it does make me wonder if it was just because they wanted to fit the time period or if following Disney suit of movies.
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The majority of people in Denmark are white, according to Wikipedia. Scotland, the setting of Brave, also seems to be predominately white. Um...Bill Cobbs led the Tinkers in Oz the Great and Powerful. The impression I'm getting (I could be wrong) is that the only movies not starring or primarily featuring a white cast, animated or otherwise, are those made in conjunction with the Disney-owned studios in India.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
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Hilarious.
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Anna said:
You know, I've read in "Don't Sweat the Small Things" and one page says, "Don't be critical of everything" (or don't be too critical). I think this is what the article is doing, and I will take it only with a grain of salt.
LGM, that was the joke.
Frozen was really great because of the morals it teaches, the emotions it conveys through direct expressions, the symbolism throughout the theme that hit home in a way I could never put into words myself, its breaking of fairytale clichés, but most importantly gratuitous ice magic.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
you see guys?Morty said:
anton understands
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Morty said:
Beautiful. Powerful. Dangerous. Cold. Ice has a magic can't be controlled. Stronger than one, stronger than ten, stronger than a hundred men. Hya!
Anser
King Bowser
I have to say that I liked the movie because it has a good story, it was excellently animated and the voice acting was on point. The bad thing is that...
I HATE MUSICALS WITH A BURNING PASSION.
If I had known that they were going to sing through all the f****** movie I wouldn't even have entered the room to watch it.
If I had known that they were going to sing through all the f****** movie I wouldn't even have entered the room to watch it.