Author Topic: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?  (Read 1045 times)

YoshiFlutterJump

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #60 on: May 14, 2019, 01:24:10 AM »
It's not official canon, it's an interpretation that you for some reason believe is canon. The marketing details you use are just the eshop, which 1. can just be referring to the fact that the characters are paper and 2. could be unreliable anyways due to translation differences and such

It is implied nowhere in game because they never reference the other Paper Mario games at all
I guess it's time to pull the trump card then...



This translates to Mario & Luigi RPG: Paper Mario Mix, btw.  Fact is, it's not just a paper-themed M&L game, it's a Paper Mario series crossover, made plainly clear in-game, even moreso in advertisements, and outright stated in the Japanese title of the game.

Like I said, it's fine to disagree with official canon.  But stop spreading any doubt there might be as if it's fact.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #61 on: May 14, 2019, 01:28:17 AM »
....

That doesn't prove anything dude. It could just be the fact that they're paper characters.

I'm not saying it's not alluding to Paper Mario. I'm saying that it's not the same Paper Mario from the other games because that's just regular Mario.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #62 on: May 14, 2019, 01:35:40 AM »
....

That doesn't prove anything dude. It could just be the fact that they're paper characters.

I'm not saying it's not alluding to Paper Mario. I'm saying that it's not the same Paper Mario from the other games because that's just regular Mario.
You know?  I'm done with this.  You seem so insistent on saying "PM series Mario isn't Paper Mario, he's just a paper Mario".  It takes a lot of reaching to hold that belief despite all the official material that at the very least casts heavy doubt on it.  Go back and play Paper Jam.  In fact, go back and play all post-2007 PM games.

And look, if you're still insistent on your headcanon, I'm not one to destroy it.  It's plainly obvious that you're just regurgitating the same points and trying (and failing) to fish for more.  But you keep your story, and I'll keep mine.  I'm sick of this.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #63 on: May 14, 2019, 01:44:06 AM »
Like I said, it's opinion.

I've been sick of this since then, you're getting way too upset over something that's entirely subjective

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #64 on: May 14, 2019, 01:56:09 AM »
Like I said, it's opinion.

I've been sick of this since then, you're getting way too upset over something that's entirely subjective
And you say I'm the one who was getting upset?

No matter.  That's a debate for another place and time.  We've severely derailed this thread and we've got to get it back on track.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #65 on: May 14, 2019, 02:25:47 AM »
This just isn't true.  There most certainly is canon in Mario.  Many different canons, perhaps, but to say that there's absolutely no continuity between games is just wrong.  The games reference the events of others all the time.  It's just wrong to say that there's no continuity in Mario.

In Paper Jam's case, it's all on the intent of the developers.  Tell me, do you really think that the paper characters in Paper Jam were intended to just be paper look-alikes of the real thing?  No!  They're clearly intended to be the same characters as the ones in the Paper Mario games.  Developer intent is at the core of any continuity.  Any arguments about continuity that try to undermine obvious developer intent are just stupid.  Doing so for the purposes of personal headcanon is fine, but it contradicts official canon--yes, I said it--and shouldn't be treated as fact.
Yes, you know what the intent of the developers is? It's been no Canon. They actually don't give that much hoots about continuity. Even in games that have some semblance of continuity is always prone to breaking it later. Super Mario Galaxy 2 threw out everything from Super Mario Galaxy. It's never explained how Kylie Koopa doesn't remember Mario or Luigi in Paper Jam. Most events on the RPG games tend to be forgotten shortly after. Everything you see in sequels are just callbacks to the original game. Developers are more nudging the player. "HEY? Remember this dude? Remember this gal?" It's because a coherent story always, and I mean always takes background to pretty much everything else. The developers intent is to have you enjoy the Mario universe and games without having to give a care about the story at all. The Mario series is incredibly versatile from the characters but also from the lack of a Canon that allows this versatility in the first place. So yeah, what were you saying about developer intent? Oh yeah, they don't give a *bleep* and they leave it to the fans arriving at different conclusions however they want and they'll probably be surprised you think Mario has a Canon.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #66 on: May 14, 2019, 02:32:49 AM »
Dev intent was games first, story last
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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #67 on: May 14, 2019, 03:03:50 AM »
That doesn't mean there is no canon, there clearly is.  As neglected as it is, to say that there is zero continuity in Mario is to say that none of the games take place in the same reality, that every game takes place in its own individual reality.

Yes, the devs might really neglect canon.  But, although neglected, it's still there.  In fact, there was once a time when they actually cared about continuity; check out the manuals for SMB3 and SMW to see what I mean.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #68 on: May 14, 2019, 03:05:22 AM »
If by caring about continuity you mean barely acknowledging it as an afterthought then sure.
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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #69 on: May 14, 2019, 03:14:36 AM »
That doesn't mean there is no canon, there clearly is.  As neglected as it is, to say that there is zero continuity in Mario is to say that none of the games take place in the same reality, that every game takes place in its own individual reality.

Yes, the devs might really neglect canon.  But, although neglected, it's still there.  In fact, there was once a time when they actually cared about continuity; check out the manuals for SMB3 and SMW to see what I mean.
Yeah, you can interpret all those games taking place in discrete continuities.  Even within series. That's the point of a non Canon game. Or you can do a shred of continuity only to throw it out the next game. The entire Mario series might as well be some stage play where Bowser is actually a close friend and chill guy but plays the movie villain role in the platformers, making the platformers nonCanon, but Mario Kart the Canon. You can even argue that it makes even more sense than assuming the platformers and RPGs are Canon as it explains all the weird contradictory various roles Bowser takes or the weird contradicting personalities Luigi has. And you can't show evidence of being right or wrong because evidence is always going to be unreliable and built on assumptions made from individual fans. I think you might be confusing between continuity and Canon honestly. Continuity is usually just a vehicle to move stories along I think rather than serious thoughts put into them.

*Canon is capitalized a lot but that's autocorrect being a *bleep* so bear with me.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #70 on: May 14, 2019, 07:28:56 AM »
Mario is like old cartoon shorts. There might be certain recurring locations. characters and personality types but they'll change them to suit whatever thing they are trying to make.

I mean it's fun to try and make headcanons over what goes where but at the end of the day, that's all it is for us. Headcanons.
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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #71 on: May 14, 2019, 08:47:55 AM »
Already done


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(Super Mario Land: 2 6 Golden coins
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winstein

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #72 on: May 14, 2019, 08:57:06 AM »
Already done


Super Mari 8) Land: 2 6 G 8) lden c 8) ins

(Super Mario Land: 2 6 Golden coins

This is something I would like to see again, where Mario is on a strange adventure and a hitherto new villain, Wario. But...



If you want to be technical, Super Mario Land 2 does not fit the strict criteria, for a few of the Koopa Troop turned up in this game, thanks to appearances of Goomba and Koopa Troopa.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #73 on: May 14, 2019, 08:58:35 AM »
But I doubt they work for  :bowser: they are probably peaceful just mario gets knocked out by crashing into one.
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winstein

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #74 on: May 14, 2019, 09:10:45 AM »
But I doubt they work for  :bowser: they are probably peaceful just mario gets knocked out by crashing into one.

My general description for the Koopa Troop is the enemies normally associated with Bowser. As long as the species is recognised as part of Bowser's regular army, which in this case are Goomba and Koopa Troopa, they are lumped under the general grouping of the Koopa Troop. I decided on the label "Koopa Troop" as a shorthand so that it is easy to understand, since I am more so bringing up this topic on the possibility of pit Mario with a less familiar set of characters where characters from the standard Super Mario crew besides Mario (the familiar ground) are absent (less regular participants like Daisy, Wario and Waluigi are fair game). In this case, Super Mario Land 2 still contains familiar enemies (Goomba and Koopa Troopa) even though the majority of enemies are all new.

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #75 on: May 14, 2019, 09:48:14 AM »
I think the closest thing that fits Winstein's criterion is the original SML, I can't think of any other Mario game like that

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Re: A Mario game without the other 5 main characters and Koopa Troop?
« Reply #76 on: May 15, 2019, 08:31:36 AM »
To shorten the whole canon topic (sorry not able to follow up), the biggest problem is that not everyone can buy every single RPG disk, and they're mostly indepedent in each title. Mario series is targeted at all ages, opposite to Metroid. Such as, they don't want a kid to buy the newest Paper Mario Switch title, realize that s/he missed the previous five or six stories and now have huge difficulty in reading the current story.

For mainstream titles like Galaxy or Sunshine, I think they provide "references" more than real story. We only need to know who EGadd, Nabbit and Rosalina are and where did they come from. The references make up the "canon", not really the story of each title. Continuity works when you can keep seeing those characters and references (event stage, item, enemy etc) repeat appearing in various games.

Of course I don't think NIntendo can just kill all the references and stories from RPG titles, it would sure be nice if they also leave abit continuity.
« Last Edit: May 15, 2019, 08:34:36 AM by Dorayaki »