Things that should be changed in Mario lore.

Bluminescence

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I really hate how every Toad has to look cookie-cutter and copy pasted to fill a crowd (because it's the cheapest way to make a species of course), like they look identical except they have different colored spots. One thing I liked about the Super Mario Super Show and The Adventures of Super Mario Bros. 3 cartoon is that Toad is clearly a distinguishable character from the rest of the Toad species, and you can easily spot him out in a crowd because his design is unique to him. Just from these pictures of the Mario cartoon alone, you can find which character is Toad in them.




I'm not asking for major redesigns to the Toad species character nor even drastically different body builds or giving them a nose. Just a few tweaks to the general structure can go a long away and it doesn't come across as lazy when you see that this Toad character you interacted with is just the same copy and pasted asset of Toad in a slightly different outfit ad infinitum.



Last game we saw something like this was Mario Party Advance's Toad characters, which I think strikes a nice balance between being distinct from Toad and general body structure and familiarity of the Toad species.

 

Mcmadness

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Changing Mario lore implies the franchise has any real lore to change in the first place.
 

Bluminescence

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It doesn't have a focus on lore sure but this is a thread that talks about continuity of some sort and I think it's a fun exercise to talk about that sort of aspect.
 

Princess Viola

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make it deeper

the entire franchise is just mario's dying dreams as he slowly suffocates in the new york city sewers in mario bros
 

Mymy64

Koopa Troopa
Peach really needs actual security at this point. Its getting ridiculous how she lets things just happen with little to no sign of resistance. At bare minimum give her own army to fight against Bowser's cause there ain't NO WAY her whole military is two Italian plumbers that jump really high. Speaking of Bowser, he really should just be an ally at this point. He obviously likes Peach and clearly doesn't hate Mario enough to not team up with him. There needs to be a threat that actually has a purpose besides "Ruling the Mushroom Kingdom" because let's be honest here people, it doesn't exactly take much to conquer it.
 

Luciano Barone

Koopa Troopa
Personally, I actually like the current Mario lore just the way it is and I don’t really want it to change too much.

That being said, I would be interested in something minor such as a story where Peach is revealed to be the older cousin of Peachette. What would you say to that?
 
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9DB7

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Peach really needs actual security at this point. Its getting ridiculous how she lets things just happen with little to no sign of resistance. At bare minimum give her own army to fight against Bowser's cause there ain't NO WAY her whole military is two Italian plumbers that jump really high. Speaking of Bowser, he really should just be an ally at this point. He obviously likes Peach and clearly doesn't hate Mario enough to not team up with him. There needs to be a threat that actually has a purpose besides "Ruling the Mushroom Kingdom" because let's be honest here people, it doesn't exactly take much to conquer it.


Sooooooooo... I might be referring to something that I don't think Nintendo made and even if they did it is very outdated but in the super Mario adventures comic peach has a small army and swat team.
 

Mcmadness

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they should make daisy a butch lesbian
That sounds like a terrible idea.

If you want a butch lesbian just have a new character that is a butch lesbian.

Though really I find myself wondering why there needs to be a character with an emphasis on being a lesbian in a franchise that isn't about sexuality in anyway or form.
 

ENA

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Aside from needlessly shutting down a concept that is clearly born from a place of enthusiastically wanting more representation for everyone, I have to point out that you're not correct.

Mario has regularly dealt with sexuality throughout the years - being heterosexual means you still have a sexuality! Mario and Bowser regularly want to marry/be with Peach, and characters are paired romantically or seen trying to kiss, etc. others all the time. I believe you're conflating this idea of "not being about sexuality" with heteronormativity, because hey, that's just the default, right? But any instance of having heterosexual interactions or situations with characters is still dealing with sexuality.

While I wouldn't expect Daisy to be shown canonically as a lesbian anytime soon, if that were to happen, how much would it realistically change the structure of the Mario series? How would this be breaching barriers for a series that is already regularly dealing with sexuality? Having a lesbian character doesn't change Mario, it's still Mario; all it does is give another opportunity for a demographic to see themselves inside the games they love

Also Daisy in particular has never had a confirmation of her specific sexuality at any time. None of the characters have. It's not as if you'd be radically altering Daisy specifically if that happened either
 

Mcmadness

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Having characters with the most token of straight aspects doesn't suddenly mean the franchise has any kind of real emphasis on sexuality.

Hell the closest to any kind of genuine sexuality this franchise has shown is people getting heart eyed or getting a kiss on the cheek, if you have a character who part of their personality is "I'm a lesbian" suddenly that stuff is front and center, more than the mere token stuff we've had up till now. And frankly anytime this franchise has tried to do more than that, ie really diving into romance or whatever it just becomes a bunch of melodramatic crap that I'm wondering what the hell it's even doing here.

Like if you want a female that enjoys giving/having a kiss from a woman like how Toadette does in Super Mario Run, go nuts but don't have their sexuality be a defining aspect of them.

And it's not really the lesbian part for Daisy that bothers me most, it's more the butch part.

Plus I despise the concept of "representation for representation's sake" thats not going to guarantee a good character. If you are just trying to add something for the sake of marking off a checklist rather then creating an actual character you come up with that stupid thing Acti-Blizzard has.
 
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Bluminescence

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You know, technically, sexuality isn't actually a thing in the Mario series because babies come from storks. What we're talking about here is romanticism, not sexuality.

(I jest, I know that sexuality and romanticism is conjoined in media for the sake of simplicity, but I felt like I need to point that out)
 

Mcmadness

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apparently im not allowed to want (not even seriously so) for a fictional character to have the same orientation as myself. ok then 🦗
Yes that is totally what I said.

Oh wait no it wasn't.
 

Koopa con Carne

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I mean, not only are you arguing your classic stance of "continuity/lore is not the focus of the game so it shouldn't exist in that game", but...

Plus I despise the concept of "representation for representation's sake" thats not going to guarantee a good character. If you are just trying to add something for the sake of marking off a checklist rather then creating an actual character you come up with that stupid thing Acti-Blizzard has.
you're additionally coming out as a massive bigot in doing so. Not one trait inherently guarantees a good character, that's true, but "representation for representation's sake" is really not a deterrent in characters that are already known to be very superficially characterised, like Mario's.
 

Googoogaga Spaghetti

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Yes that is totally what I said.

Oh wait no it wasn't.
there are way better approaches to disagreeing with someone's idea in this particular instance

also you have iterated many many times how much daisy is utterly redundant with peach and mention her utter worthlessness as a character, but at the same time you shoot down ideas for her and instead want new characters instead of her?

You know, technically, sexuality isn't actually a thing in the Mario series because babies come from storks. What we're talking about here is romanticism, not sexuality.

(I jest, I know that sexuality and romanticism is conjoined in media for the sake of simplicity, but I felt like I need to point that out)
i know some people might think that's pedantry but this distinction needs to be made because it helps people understand the asexual spectrum, and aces are really misunderstood people.
 

Bluminescence

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I don't think that's Mcmadness's argument, but rather that representation isn't really Mario's forte to begin with, especially apparent when I lampooned the cookie-cutter Toad designs in my first posts that they outright erased Toads needing a unique body shape outside of the standard Toad design.

I mean, I don't agree with his points; I don't understand why characters outside of heteronormative traits are held to a higher standard, like the moment they're introduced to be lesbian, they are considered "tokenized" but you can't say the same when the status quo representation of dude dating a girl is not tokenized.

Yes tokenization CAN be a problem in the industry and the best glimmering examples of tokenization is that stupid shit acti-blizz overwatch thing or corporations whenever pride month comes up, but for the Mario series? I don't think it's an issue. The series has more issues erasing diversity (such as their treatment of Birdo, Vivian, and the removal and whitewashing of the human characters from the Mario Golf series) rather than tokenization.
 

Googoogaga Spaghetti

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I don't think that's Mcmadness's argument, but rather that representation isn't really Mario's forte to begin with, especially apparent when I lampooned the cookie-cutter Toad designs in my first posts that they outright erased Toads needing a unique body shape outside of the standard Toad design.
It's not but certainly it's worth trying is it not? Now, I'm not saying they should introduce black characters out of thin air for the new Mario character, like no black Luigi, but Mario constantly gets opportunities for new humans to introduce and whatnot. Why aren't they introducing characters of color? Why can't Camelot introduce more than one person of color? Why aren't there any particular character of color even in the Odyssey concept book besides planned generic NPCs? Why aren't there married couples who have the same gender?
 

Bluminescence

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It's not but certainly it's worth trying is it not? Now, I'm not saying they should introduce black characters out of thin air for the new Mario character, like no black Luigi, but Mario constantly gets opportunities for new humans to introduce and whatnot. Why aren't they introducing characters of color? Why can't Camelot introduce more than one person of color? Why aren't there any particular character of color even in the Odyssey concept book besides planned generic NPCs? Why aren't there married couples who have the same gender?
I think one of the reasons is that Mario first of all doesn't really get more humans to begin with, taking place mostly in a fantastical setting with mushrooms, turtles, and little chestnut guys and only sporadically do we get more human characters. The last introduced major human we got was Rosalina back in 2007, and she's pretty much a Peach variant all things considered; the golf characters have been practically scrubbed from the series. Super Mario Odyssey's people of color in the New Donk Kingdom aren't really good either, they literally just made a darker skinned color alternative of white humans. Second, the game is Japanese developed and published, and as far as I'm aware of, they're less conscious about representation than we are here (Nintendo does at least attempt to bring in more of that in at least Animal Crossing and Pokemon with your player avatars but otherwise, most of their titles aren't amazing bastions of diversity in terms of NPCs either). You're talking about the same company that failed to properly implement gay marriage in Tomodachi Life after all.

frankly it is fucked up how mario exhibits experience by crushing turts all day. perchance
It's not that fucked up when you consider that those "turts" are sentient army troops who deliberately chose to work for an evil king.
 
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