Does Smash bros entry benefit the characters afterward?

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Yes, though it has Smash in the title, it's a topic for Mario board.

I came across several Smash discussion and find the bandwagon that "some characters didn't even deserve to be Smash fighters!" or "my wanted characters can make it if those insignificant characters can!". Sure, it'd be nice to see NIntendo add those characters and ignore such kind of debates, but I think we should also make further jujdgment on the characters' recent treatment and tell if Nintendo really put their heart on the characters.

I always believe that Smash bros isn't the whole thing for a gaming character, Having a shining life outside Smash bros is more important than just having a Smash entry only. It feels like wining a reality show isn't your whole life, how you start a new life with the prize and attention after it is more vital.

So regarding to Mario universe let's see how Nintendo has performed so far:


Daisy
I think it was a nice acknowledement about the fact she and Peach shares very similiar abilities and she is able to participate in any big adventure like Peach does, which is good. Just..... her absence in several newer Mario platformer games doesn't make her situation of "almost spinoff kicker" any better, to be honest.

K Rool
Yes, Nintendo has ignored this main rival for DK and the real antagonist of DK franchise for such a long time, but his Smash entry only replaces Super Sluggers and remarks his last major game appearance, which is still not a really bright outcome. His entry for Mario Kart is still overdue like Pauline's was.

Plant Piranha
Uhm... okay, I see people aren't that passionate about it in a whole, so I just use Petey Piranha as the individual representive considering it was also in Smash 3. I do think Petey can be a very memorable recurring midboss for Mario franchise, just it still feels like Petey hasn't really gone into the secondary cast tier where King Boo stays. I think Petey deserves a playable role in any game within the Switch era.

Rosalina
When you think she is walking into the Olympics formal roster and now you finds out that she is just spacewalking.


I mean, not too good so far. Most game projects were developed after Smash 5 after all, and it doesn't feel like NIntendo feels obliged to promote these characters outside Smash bros, We went thought Smash 5 anniversary and 2019, hope that new things are gonna be better. I do see another bandwagaon that "these characters would just be Smash exclusives like Mr G&W", hope that this isn't gonna be reality.


Metal Mario
Nintendo: hey, now we prove that we can promote minor characters into recurring ones!
Fans: uh.... okay, but.... does he matter?


Waluigi / Geno
I do see the two are frequently discussed in Smash bros fandom, and I mean no offense to people who really like both. But I want to add a side note that if none of above broke their own limits to become bigger gaming icons, I doubt the two can achieve anything in newer Mario games even if Smash bros make them fight entirely for the fan demand.

Banjo
Okay, he is new, it's more like my personal wish. Microsoft didn't make further plans for his own game appearance, so that perhaps for this year, it'd be nice for him to make some other guest appearances in Mario universe where his origin located. If he could be a guest in SEGA Allstars Racing, making him reprise the racer role in a Mario game isn't that farfatching.
 
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Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Well, just look at the Ice Climbers. It's done them no favours other than letting people know they exist.
 

winstein

Justice is not limited, it is a universal quality
I think the character that benefited the most is most certainly Pit. He was basically not that popular until Smash gave him the biggest spotlight ever (he's first shown at E3, lest we forget), and he has the benefit of Sakurai loving him enough to not only update his design, but to place him a new game that expanded his universe in ways that only he could dream of. As a result, it made sense that Palutena and Dark Pit got playable appearances because of Pit's newfound popularity.

To a lesser extent, there's Mega Man, who was having a huge dormant period thanks to having a dearth of new games at that time. Even Mega Man Legends 3 was cancelled, which resulted in low morale for Mega Man fans then. I have a feeling that the resurgence of his popularity in Smash is the reason the Mega Man series is trudging on with new compilations and new games, and two of the newer games are million sellers: Legacy Collection 1 and Mega Man 11. Just to make sure anybody's aware: this series have very few million sellers despite being a well-loved series.

----

I agree that a lot of the time, Smash does not necessarily breathe new life to the fighters outside their game, although they enjoy immortality because Smash fans tend to put playable fighters, especially ones with original movesets, on a pedestal. Yes, that means even Ice Climbers, who only has one game, is considered important. For many of the characters, being a fighter in Smash is blessing enough despite being a clone, especially for those who are in the sidelines, like Captain Falcon.

For Daisy though, I think it's the other way around actually. She is a prominent Mario character that is similar to Peach, so she is easy to fit into the Smash roster. It might not turn heads on her because she is basically a copy of another fighter, but as I said, being playable in Smash is already a huge privilege.

Regarding Geno, I don't really think that he will inspire future appearances given that he's on the other side of the fence, although it would certain make a good number of vocal fans ecstatic. On the other hand, Waluigi is I felt, often kind of on the cusp to achieve bigger things given how frequently he appears, which is a atypical for spin-off characters, so getting in Smash might give him a little push.

Thank you for reading.
 

Glowsquid

Shine Sprite
Forum Moderator
Wiki Bureaucrat
Core 'Shroom Staff
I feel people Really overstate how effective Smash Bros. actually is as advertisement:


-Captain Falcon may be epic meme man but that sure didn't help his series.

-Being in smash didn't prevent Jigglypuff from becoming irrelevant in the game and anime for a long time

-Bayonetta 2 and its switch port didn't seem to get any notable sales boost from her inclusion in the game.

-Fire Emblem couldn't break a million worldwide and found itself dangerously close to being cancelled *after* getting a lot of love in Brawl until it got a new game with higher production values, waifus and newb-friendly mechanics completely independant of smash.

And that's just talking about playable characters. "Representation" through things like items and stages evidently did nothing for the success of games like Elektroplankton and Sin & Punishment 2.

I'm not saying Smash has *no* effect though. Clearly a good number of people tried out games like Mother and FE after learning of them through smash, and it obviously has an effect in the fan art and cosplay sphere. - but that's a minority of a minority. I think the idea stuff like Chibi Robo would suddenly sell millions and millions if only it was featured in smash vey misguided.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
Practically all Pokemon in Smash barring Charizard and Pikachu aren't even in Sword & Shield, at least its base game.
 

Princess Mario

✨Mushroom Kingdom's fabulously glittery plumber✨
I think Piranha Plant's availability in Smash might've influenced its playable appearance in Mario Pennies Asses but we'll have to see long-term about that. I'm sure it led to more people requesting it.

On the other hand, Smash personally influenced me a bit. I think I got into Kirby as I had no other means of exposure, and I knew F-Zero, Metroid, and Earthbound at least existed though on the other hand, it didn't drive me to play those games. In the meantime, Smash taught me what Link's name was so I don't think I ever called him "Zelda".

Rosalina's popular now, getting alts in Mario Kart Tour, but she was popular *before* Smash, having a rare playable role in Super Mario 3D World after multitudes of absence such as from Super Sluggers, a minor role in Mario Party: Island Tour, absence from Mario Tennis Open. I'm not sure if Smash boosted her popularity, but I think it made people view her at least as a special character; people still see something in her, even though I argue she's spin-off status nowadays (despite being considered for more than just a tiny pixel cameo in Odyssey).
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
I think the character that benefited the most is most certainly Pit. He was basically not that popular until Smash gave him the biggest spotlight ever (he's first shown at E3, lest we forget), and he has the benefit of Sakurai loving him enough to not only update his design, but to place him a new game that expanded his universe in ways that only he could dream of. As a result, it made sense that Palutena and Dark Pit got playable appearances because of Pit's newfound popularity.
Was it because of their found popularity or did Sakurai have bias towards his own creation?

YOU MAKE THE CALL
 

Alex95

NIWA Nut
Wiki Administrator
Before playing Melee, I only knew about Mario, Metroid, Kirby, and maybe Zelda. Melee got me interested in Pokemon and Fire Emblem, and many franchises in the games afterward. The series definitely helps bring exposure to titles others may not know about, but interest only goes so far. You can be interested in something, but not move past that point to actually engage in another franchise.

Take Project Rainfall, for example. The project was meant to bring support toward localizing Pandora's Tower, The Last Story, and Xenoblade Chronicles in America, after all three saw successful releases in Japan. It gained thousands of signers, but one of the key points Reggie makes is "10,000 votes does not mean 10,000 sales." It's all based on how much you show your support toward the actual release, which can really only be done by buying the product. This is why we have Xenoblade Chronicles as a successful franchise, but have seen almost nothing about Pandora's Tower and The Last Story since 2012.
 

Bowser II

Just like the first one, except better.
And that's just talking about playable characters. "Representation" through things like items and stages evidently did nothing for the success of games like Elektroplankton and Sin & Punishment 2.
I actually got the game Hanenbow because I recognized it from Brawl. I don't regret it, it's a fun game to play around with. Not saying I'm the norm here by any means, I'm probably one of very few who did that. But hey, sometimes an appearance in Smash can do something, even if it's super insignificant.
 

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Well, just look at the Ice Climbers. It's done them no favours other than letting people know they exist.
While the topic can also be for all Smash franchises in general, I think there is a difference between Mario-verse ones and others:

1) 3rd party franchises game plans are decided by 3rd party of course, so even if NIntendo can invite them to Smash bros, they cannot do anything for them outside it. The topic means to talk about whether NIntendo do have a consistent vision throughout all video games of their own, so it's mainly effective to 1st party games.

2) Franchise revival and character treatment are issues in different aspects, the former is much more difficult to achieve in comparison to just adding more character to an existed game.

I think the character that benefited the most is most certainly Pit. He was basically not that popular until Smash gave him the biggest spotlight ever (he's first shown at E3, lest we forget), and he has the benefit of Sakurai loving him enough to not only update his design, but to place him a new game that expanded his universe in ways that only he could dream of. As a result, it made sense that Palutena and Dark Pit got playable appearances because of Pit's newfound popularity.

Regarding Geno, I don't really think that he will inspire future appearances given that he's on the other side of the fence, although it would certain make a good number of vocal fans ecstatic. On the other hand, Waluigi is I felt, often kind of on the cusp to achieve bigger things given how frequently he appears, which is a atypical for spin-off characters, so getting in Smash might give him a little push.
In general, yes, the Uprising designs obviously followed Smash 3, so Smash indeed made a big push on that game. The chance of a new KI game is still likely in the future as long as Pit and Palutena stay as Smash regulars.

I think not just being in Smash bros, such idea "vocal support can make NIntendo notice the characters" is also commonly unrealistic. My point is if characters in Smash cannot even get better treats, don't think the ones outside can have better days anyway.
Waluigi's technical issue is still lacking a diverse collection of game references like Mario and Luigi has, which makes his moveset idea very restricted. So I wouldn't support the idea that "Waluigi can fight in Smash bros before in Mario games". Fighting in Mario games first can give him a better moveset for Smash, which is more beneficial to him.
 
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fantanoice

I can see through time
Any publicity is good publicity. If Nintendo don't want to capitalise on it then it's their loss. We wouldn't have Fire Emblem internationally or Kid Icarus Uprising without their Smash inclusions. And you're all vastly underestimating how much money Jigglypuff merch brings in.
 

MnSG

Cosmic Beauty
Of all the Smash Bros. contenders, the Piranha Plant pretty much stands out like a sore thumb. It's so generic, and has never been playable, even in the Mario spin-offs. In other words, it's just so low priority when compared to most of the other potential Super Mario series representatives; even Petey Piranha felt more believable.
 
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