post any random thought on your mind

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
Pokemon has a worse copyright gatekeeping than Mario. I think it's tied to how popular the series is and Mario and Pokemon are Nintendo's top two most popular series.
 

Revali

Koops, King of cowards.
Sucks to want to make fangames about popular Nintendo franchises, doesn't it.
 

Pokerninja2

Monty Mole
I mean I can totally understand wanting to protect their IPs but sheesh, almost none of these fangames getting taken down are affecting the sales of their games.

If anything it's free advertisement for the real deal.
 

winstein

Justice is not limited, it is a universal quality
The balance between control and freedom is an interesting topic because the creators want to have a degree of control over their properties lest it gets misrepresented, yet fans generally want complete freedom to project their creativity over said property. Many people cite SEGA's handling of Sonic to be a highlight because fan games are famously allowed, and in fact, Sonic Mania's team did fan games before they became professionals (and thus more qualified to develop an official Sonic game), yet at the same time they seem to stop certain merchandise like certain shirts from being sold. A similar case could be made for Garfield, although it would seem that Garfield is on the side of too much freedom and that seems to go well with the fans (and anti-fans).

The words on Mario fan games being "takedown-happy" made me think that they are completely disallowed, yet last I checked, Mario Fan Games Galaxy still exists as a website. That means Psycho Waluigi, one of the more popular Mario fan games, is still available. I suppose only those that are well-known are subjected to being barred, which is admittedly quite numerous since there are plenty of well-known fan games that include No Mario's Sky. Same goes to Pokemon, where to my knowledge Uranium is the only one that is taken down, since Pokemon Zeta/Omicron seems to still be around. I imagine that in Pokemon's case, it would be very easy to mistake fanmade Pokemon as official, which is probably something that would be troublesome to deal with were it to become popular (Zeta/Omicron uses existing Pokemon so I guess it might be safe for that reason).

I don't know about free advertisement: sure you can say that a fanmade game is free and might interest potential fans, but it would thus be preferable to play the free game as opposed to an official equivalent. Perhaps a more understandable example is that Another Metroid 2 Remake, which was taken down and was generally more understood when an official Metroid 2 remake on the 3DS was announced. Videos, on the other hand, are more easily understood as free advertisements compared to games.

I don't get it. Games like Garry's Mod and Spore (and Spore: Galactic Adventures) have Mario's likeness and Mario-themed maps with a 1:1 accuracy running rampant around all the time, yet their content doesn't get taken down. Mods like this have existed since forever in plenty of 3rd party games. It's only now, in Dreams, that it's apparently become an issue, and Nintendo exercising this amount of control over other people's content in a 3rd party game all about user-created content strongly irritate me.

I know that Dreams does want to create paid user-created content and I'd imagine that would be highly problematic but the thing is, Nintendo is taking down these creations prior to those even being implemented.
I can't claim to know about Dreams' future plans, but I imagine that announcement of paid user-created content is enough for a need of action to be taken, since there might be an option to convert the current ones to be paid. I imagine that in most user-content games they are free, so it's not an issue for them to be taken down. Or maybe the nature of Dreams, a game creator, made it a more justified target.

Thank you for reading.
 

Dusk Lobber

sugar makes me so hyper? totes
imo copyright should mean "if it's clearly taking away n's profit its bad" not "if it has any kind of mario likeness and isnt explicitly liscened by n its bad even if its essentially free advertising"
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
If they don't enforce their copyright then they risk potentially losing the claim.

They are required by law to do stuff like this.
 

YoshiFlutterJump

Shine Sprite
Awards Committee
Poll Committee
If they don't enforce their copyright then they risk potentially losing the claim.

They are required by law to do stuff like this.
Actually, that's a very common misconception. You can lose a trademark by not enforcing it, but copyright is not trademark. Copyright cannot be lost, and only expires after 75 years.
 
Last edited:

Dusk Lobber

sugar makes me so hyper? totes
75 years.
for stuff that's published by a corporation. Interestingly I think I read something once which stated that loopholes etc. which means that it may be only 50 years, maybe even only 25 years, in which case games such as SMB3 and by next year SM64 even would have expired. Most likely however, it's 75, so we'd have to wait another 43/51 years respectively before the copyright's over.

For individual works iirc it's 70 years after the creator's death
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Actually, that's a very common misconception. You can lose a trademark by not enforcing it, but copyright is not trademark. Copyright cannot be lost, and only expires after 75 years.
And Mario is trademarked, thus they are enforcing it.


On a different note it always amuses me how people keep thinking Mr L is a thief. Shows that none of then know about the various Tatsunoko anime series.
 
Last edited:

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
I'm not arguing that they're legally in the wrong to enforce it. I'm arguing that it's an utter dick move.

On a different note it always amuses me how people keep thinking Mr L is a thief. Shows that none of then know about the various Tatsunoko anime series.
Well he's dressed like one. 🤷
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Then take it up with those who write trademark laws, all they are doing is just following the law as it's presented.

Sure, but the pose striking and most importantly, summoning a robot makes it apparent he isn't going for the thief type character.

Like somebody right out of Yatterman.
 

Dusk Lobber

sugar makes me so hyper? totes
Then take it up with those who write trademark laws, all they are doing is just following the law as it's presented.
pretty sure things like that are very difficult to change and would require a huge number of people supporting it to even be considered
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Would still be more productive than getting mad at one of many companies that do it.
 

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
Eh, I'm just one anonymous voice on the matter against a money-hungry corporation favoring off a systematic problem regarding copyright and complacent politicians so it's around as productive voicing my frustration on a tiny Mario-based forum.
 

Pokerninja2

Monty Mole
Speaking of Mr. L, I love how Shadoo uses his silhouette instead of Luigi's when you battle him in the Pit of 100 Trials. Guess the forgot to switch out the sprites when editing them.

Speaking of the Pit of 100 Trials, piss right off with making me do it twice.
 

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
I never liked how a dreary, 100 floor dungeon is the extent of the sidequests Paper Mario typically has. If there's one thing Paper Mario is light on, it's sidequests. Thousand-Year Door did attempt to mitigate that with the Trouble Center but this pretty much highlights my problem on a game series' defined peak being just the second game 16 years ago: I really wish we had a new Paper Mario entry that is back to the roots but more improved on in terms of QoL and whatnot.
 

Revali

Koops, King of cowards.
Pit of 100 trials sucks as an ultimate challenge. I would like to tackle a big challenge, believe me, but I'd like to do it at my own pace and with respect to my free time. You can't have me just go through 100 floors that look like each other and not let me save in-between. Like, this isn't even a genuine challenge. You can make an area challenging while still putting in checkpoints.

I especially hate the SPM version. I have to go through the Flipside pit (to obtain arguably one of the best abilities but really late into the game nonetheless), then twice in the Flopside one to fight a pushover of a boss. Oh, and let's not forget Sammer's Kingdom (Although you can save inbetween each 25 fights here). Oh boy.
 

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
Well, it's the same game series that gave us the Anti-Guy trio, which should be the ultimate Paper Mario challenge imo. One of them is already bad enough.
 

Revali

Koops, King of cowards.
Tbh I'd like the pit of 100 trials more if it just had some puzzle-solving aspect. As it stands all it is is a glorified glitz pit with stronger ennemies.
 

Striker Mario

🚛Practicing soccer in a sewage treatment plant
Remember when Nintendo waited 10 years to take down a fan remake of Metroid II: Return of Samus made entirely from the ground up with only using Game Maker all because they had their uglier, less fun Metroid II remake in the works themselves?

Pepperidge farm remembers.

Let's not forget the Brawl mod Legacy XP either, which recently disbanded. Listen, I know there's no proof Nintendo directly approached them but if memory serves Project M got into a similar situation close to the end of its life that totally wasn't a C&D until it was.
Yeah, that was painful. They at least had the courtesy to take the thing down when it's already completed mostly, so the files are still around.

Legacy XP, really? Well I don't follow Brawl modding in a while. The annoying noises the game makes when crashing is enough to put me off it. Both Project M and Legacy XP probably didn't have any real problems, but they shuttered due to being in Nintendo's crosshairs and being pretty much intimidated by Nintendo's legal thuggery. It's really hard to express being a fan.

Something I noticed tho is that it's mostly Mario getting this treatment. I've almost never seen a non-Mario Nintendo-themed fangame getting taken down. It's like they care less about copyright all of a sudden if it's something like idk, Zelda.

Like, the Fire Emblem community hosts an E3 for fangames the community makes yet it doesn't seem to attract any attention. I guess when it comes to your baby boy Mario you gotta protect him at all costs, eh?
It's probably because there's a lot more Mario-themed fangames. There's a hub on creating Mario fangames, MFGG, and I don't think there's ones as quite as big. Other fan games do get taken down, not just Mario, but they have to get enough attention for Nintendo to start throwing a hissy fit. Other Nintendo-themed fangames do get taken down, we just had Pokemon Zeta and AM2R.

I mean I can totally understand wanting to protect their IPs but sheesh, almost none of these fangames getting taken down are affecting the sales of their games.

If anything it's free advertisement for the real deal.
It's freaking Nintendo. They're not going to see any dent in their profits. But clearly a Brawl mod is poised to destroy them inside out.

If they don't enforce their copyright then they risk potentially losing the claim.

They are required by law to do stuff like this.
This makes little sense as copyright infringement happens all the time. If what you're saying is true, then no one would have a claim as they have all lost them a while ago. The reality is that it's only a few companies that are ridiculously anal and petty to the point they come off as bullies using a law they believe that suits them rather than everyone else. Look at Nintendo's YouTube content creator program. It's an abuse of copyright.

Many people cite SEGA's handling of Sonic to be a highlight because fan games are famously allowed, and in fact, Sonic Mania's team did fan games before they became professionals (and thus more qualified to develop an official Sonic game), yet at the same time they seem to stop certain merchandise like certain shirts from being sold.
Yeah, this is true, but SEGA's own record is stupidly spotty. I recall one they've enforced IP protection on YouTube to a ridiculous degree. Sega isn't immune to this sort of behavior. I get that, yeah, probably bootleg merch shouldn't be sold, but I wouldn't group fangames as such.

imo copyright should mean "if it's clearly taking away n's profit its bad" not "if it has any kind of mario likeness and isnt explicitly liscened by n its bad even if its essentially free advertising"
Even if they were taking away N's profit, it'll have to affect them to a significant degree for me to care. It's a giant multinational multibillion corporation who has cemented major parts of pop culture. Who cares what a fangame or mod or bootleg does to them.

Would still be more productive than getting mad at one of many companies that do it.
We're effectively powerless. We can't do any change really aside from voting (but even that's a shot in the dark a lot of times because of our own screwed up electorate system). Nintendo has money to get lawyers to try to write laws that suit them and hurt everyone else (Lewis Galoob court case). Best we can do is condemn what they do rather than defend what they're doing, and talk about how copyright laws, how they're structured, is pure poison for society in most cases and serves only very narrow and powerful interest.

Sucks to want to make fangames about popular Nintendo franchises, doesn't it.
Yeah that's all most of us want to do. We just want to have our own take on their goddamn IPs.

If I were to make a Mario fangame without being explicitly Mario, I'd be super flippant about it. Like DMCA Sky. Mario is there, but wears a helmet, is covered in armor, and you can see his eyes. You wouldn't know it's him except for the eyes and hints of a nose. He'd be like "I can't-a take off my helmet, there's unspeakable horrors inside".


Speaking of Mr. L, I love how Shadoo uses his silhouette instead of Luigi's when you battle him in the Pit of 100 Trials. Guess the forgot to switch out the sprites when editing them.

Speaking of the Pit of 100 Trials, piss right off with making me do it twice.
it's punishment for playing super paper mario in the first place :new:
 

Dusk Lobber

sugar makes me so hyper? totes
Even if they were taking away N's profit, it'll have to affect them to a significant degree for me to care. It's a giant multinational multibillion corporation who has cemented major parts of pop culture. Who cares what a fangame or mod or bootleg does to them.
I meant to say significantly - I agree with you
 

Dusk Lobber

sugar makes me so hyper? totes
guys you do realise the pit of 100 trials in both ttyd and spm is a totally optional challenge which doesn't hurt the main story at all

meh i honestly didnt mind the flopside twice thing i played the entire game well over twice and it doesnt bore me so idc. shadoo was really interesting if you also spoke to the barkeeper dude who tells you all about the pixl queen and its potentially implied that shadoo IS the pixl queen, thrown into the dungeon after her defeat, locked down there for over a millenium, plotting revenge

if only ttyd's had save points tho cause i just dont have enough time to do it all in one sitting
 

Ray Trace

You have entered the comedy area.
Just because it's optional doesn't mean it has to be...tedious? People play more than just the main story of games, otherwise, that would make for a pretty bare experience all things considered. Like, Pokemon has been an enduring franchise because of all the little things you can do other than beat Gym Leaders and the Elite Four (such as collecting and training Pokemon) and Pokemon Mystery Dungeon has pretty strong post-game side content.
 
Top