Super Smash Bros. for Wii U & 3DS Discussion

[supermariofan]

How do I purchase Mewtwo? It doesn't seem to let me

 

[-----]

How do I purchase Mewtwo? It doesn't seem to let me

...the dlc shop...

 

[Weasel]

Got Mewtwo. He's pretty rad for the most part.

i mean he's not duck hunt levels of awesome but y'know

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

You can play Special Smash online via a glitch, except Stamina mode, this page explains how to do it.
That would be cool if that feature could be added without using a glitch.

Just want Special Smash in mah 3DS version dammit. Or at least more option controls in Smash Run (like Team Battles, Giant Smash, Stamina Smash, etc.)

 

[Weasel]

Amazing.

 

[Lumastar]

Saw. This guy really got into it!

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

Well, I spent the last week playing Melee with my best friends - damn my one friend that mained Sheik and does competitive stuff - and played Mewtwo a few times, and spent the past day or so trying out Mewtwo now in Sm4sh, and it definitely is a big improvement. He's still a little floaty, but not as bad as he was in Melee, and his moves are a lot easier to move, though I still don't like his up air smash with the tail flip. I feel like the physics in Sm4sh has better suited mewtwo though than in Melee, and he's actually not bad to use. Still haven't tried out his final smash yet, shame on me.

Speaking of Melee...I feel that it definitely rewards the faster characters over the slow ones (or at least maybe it was just who I was playing against, since he loves his Sheik and captain falcon), and I felt like the slower they were, the longer lag there was to use their moves. Smash 4 definitely felt a bit different and took a few matches to get back into, but I definitely feel that Sm4sh has the best balance between characters when it comes to who you use and who you face against, as opposed to Melee where it can make or break the battle. I'm better competitively in Melee than in Smash with certain characters like Ness and Marth, but at the same time much worse competitively with basically every other character.

 

[freakworld]

being fast is also the only reason why fox rules in melee

 

[GalacticPetey]

being fast is also the only reason why fox rules in melee

Fox is currently ranked 1st on the Melee tier list. True to his position, Fox is an extremely efficient fighter, with fast attacks, excellent comboing and damaging ability, long recovery options, and numerous options to approach the opponent, boasting some of the best neutral game options among the entire cast. He has KO options and setups at a wide variety of percentages, and his high falling speed makes him resilient to vertical KOs. His aerial game also includes several low-lag yet effective and powerful moves to complement his ground game, especially when SHFFL'd, and is incredibly effective at approaching and edgeguarding. Fox's main tool in his success, however, is his Reflector (also known as the shine), which is one of the most versatile tools in the game. Aside from its intended purpose, it is the fastest move in the game, has set knockback, and can be jump canceled; this allows for shine spike gimps, neutral stance resets, getup option mixups, and even combos when wavedashing is incorporated. Despite being top tier, Fox is not flawless. He has an extremely high technical learning curve, as most of his techniques require extremely nimble fingers and fast reaction time. Additionally, he also has a very high cerebral learning curve as Fox players must be wary of making even a single mistake. Fox's high falling speed makes him very easy to combo and chaingrab off of a single conversion from the opponent, and his light weight can result in extremely early horizontal KOs if the player's DI is poor. Although he boasts a very long recovery distance, he only has linear recovery options, which makes it easier for certain characters like Marth to predict his recovery path and edgeguard or gimp him. Regardless, his pros greatly outshine his cons, and Fox is notable for being one of only four characters in the series (the other three being Pikachu in Smash 64, Falco in Melee, and Meta Knight in Brawl) to have no disadvantageous matchups, with only three (Falco, Marth and Samus) being considered even.

There's more to him than just speed.

 

[freakworld]

dont deny it

its mostly being fast

 

[Lumastar]

Fox isn't my fave, but he's fun to use and I can't deny his competitive prowess.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

dont deny it

its mostly being fast

He has pretty strong and fast attacks for his speed (u-smash) and he can do crazy things with wavedashing and shining. His only worthless move is his kicking jab and maybe d-throw. All the rest have crazy combo potential though.

Smush, being a holdover from Barlw, won't be taken as seriously as Meele nevertheless. You know, despite its apparent balance.

 

[freakworld]

bbbut

speed

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Meh, I guess it's no accident that Marth, Sheik, Fox, and Captain Falcon are among the top.

But then, you get Falco, Jigglypuff, Ice Climbers, and Peach who aren't as fast so confirmation bias lel.

 

[SonicMario]

Speed's always been a good factor on some of the best characters in the game in Smash. It's not really mutually exclusive of course though. Because Sonic in Brawl was far from the best despite being the fastest character in the game. (That seems to have reversed quite a bit in Smash 4 though. Sonic has been cited at least in the Top 15 most viable characters in the game)

 

[Glitchy Bowser Jr.]

In Smash 4 it seems most of the top tiers are fast too, with the highest tier having characters like Diddy Kong, Sheik and Zero Suit Samus.

 

[Ray Trace]

Well Ness and Yoshi are like high tier and are not really fast

 

[Crypt Raider]

It's not really about speed, it's about options and matchups. In Melee, Bowser, Mewtwo, Zelda, etc. all have the common trait that they are indeed slow, but it's also that they have next to no valuable options. Pichu, and Sonic in Brawl, ARE fast, but they lack strong moves to make anything with it. Even though Falcon is both top tier and the fastest character in the game, he hasn't taken home a national because he still has less options than the other top tiers, even Jigglypuff who is quite slow compared to the rest (then again, Falcon doesn't currently have a Hungrybox). Meanwhile, Fox is fast AND has a ton of strong hits, so he has the most options and therefore the best matchups in the game.

Smash 4 has a similar deal, since shields are very very strong, but speed is even less of a factor. Rosalina is not fast, but she's in the Top 5 since she spaces so well. Diddy is not insanely fast like Sonic or Falcon, but his neutral game options and followups (i.e. HOO HAH) are/were above anyone else besides Sheik. Similar deal with Pikachu, Luigi, Ness, and Yoshi. Sonic was given stronger kill moves to compliment his speed, so that's why he is now up there.

 

[freakworld]

yeah also ddd is bae and hes the slowass mofo

 

[Anser]

Rosalina is algo high tier and she's not exactly what you would call a speedy character.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Yeah, so it seems to me that good characters tend to be fast, their moves strong enough, yet quick. Their aerials come out strongly and quickly, too.

Of course you have Rosalina and Jigglypuff, but they have their own strong traits. The typical good character is someone like Pikachu, Sheik, Fox, and formerly Greninja.

 

[Glitchy Bowser Jr.]

Meta Knight was also fast and had broken combos in Brawl, of course.

 

[yoshi123]

Well Ness and Yoshi are like high tier and are not really fast

Yoshi actually has VERY good air speed compared to the rest of the cast, along with decent ground speed (I'd probs argue he's one of the fastest characters overall; both in the ground and the air) and then his Neutral Air is SO god damn good.

And since we're kinda talking about tiers, I do enjoy using Fox (first game I started using him in cause chaingrabs aren't really a thing and I can't die as easily with him :p), but I'm REALLY not seeing him being up so high on the tier list. Here are the issues I find with him...

Spoiler: Rant about Fox

He has short and very linear hitboxes, meaning that his zone is EITHER purely vertical or purely horizontal. He's also not too great at pressuring shields; sure you can grab them, but his grabs can't KO so it's very easy for an opponent to spam shield at KO percents. His KO moves are all short ranged (and frankly not that powerful), and a whiff gets him punished HARD.

And while his recovery has been greatly improved due to Illusion buff, it still doesn't solve the fact that his recovery is linear and interceptable, and Fire Fox has a TON of start-up. His fast fall also makes his edgeguarding practically non-existent because if he jumps off stage, he's usually at the height where he has to use his Fire Fox and if he failed to hit the opponent then that's a free return for the opponent while Fox is stuck having to recover.
An example being here.
See how I just Nair'd Fox out of Fire Fox and then Fair'd his Illusion? (And please don't say "oh only Ness can do that", practically anyone with a long lasting hitbox or simply good timing can intercept his recovery).

And then his combo/juggling game isn't too bad, but Fox gets a lot less damage output AND has to make harder reads to rack up damage on his foes (and thus takes more time for him so he has to work way harder), whereas he can get juggled easily due to his fast fall AND Fox is light as a feather so he can die very early.
^For instance, Ness can do D-Throw > Fair > D-Throw again (and then either a Uair or Fair depending on Fox's DI) due to his fastfall and I've got like a 0-death on a Fox before lol
as seen here.

Honestly why Fox is so high up on the tier list is beyond me. Not saying he's trash, but I think anything above C is stretching it. I'm not too sure what the current tier is, but some have him in Top 10, but I really can't see it. That being said he's still my favorite character to verse though haha.

And also I think Ness is up too high, like even top 10 is stretching it, I'd probably say top 15 AT BEST. The gimmicky recovery and lack of a solid neutral is rather detrimental.
And then if customs become a thing in tourneys then RIP Ness lol

 

[Magikrazy]

i hope the tier list is released soon

hopefully some time next month

 

[Daniel Dyce]

My amiibo has far surpassed me