SSB, SSBM, or SSBB?
- Thread starter Lord Bowser
- Start date
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- #27
ok watBaby Luigi said:
and also, next time your sister gets on, kindly ask her to rant about brawl on this thread please
Mijzelffan
Looking forward to a new Mario Kart!
- MarioWiki
- Mijzelffan
I want to like brawl better than melee, but for some reason even now I just enjoy playing melee better. And I'm not even competitive.
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- MarioWiki
- Mario
The reason I hate Brawl is that Sakurai doesn't like the idea of sequels. I know he developed Melee, and it improved on Super Smash Bros. For some reason, he didn't like how Melee surprisingly attracted a competitive community, so he decided to overhaul the mechanics. The game still plays the same, but it sure doesn't feel the same anymore. I'm not a competitive player, but even I notice the changes and continue scoffing at it, wondering why Sakurai had to adulterate Melee's physics in the first place. This is ranting on a competitive perspective; I'll go rant on a casual one, too. Yes, I know.
Unnecessary Changes
First, hitstun. This is the character being unable to attack after she takes damage. Super Smash Bros. had a ton of it, which allowed for serious combos. Melee reduced it a bit, but it still allowed for great combos to work. In Brawl, this hitstun is nonexistent. I don't understand why it is reduced further. It's a pointless "tweak" that Brawl received, and all it does is to contribute to Brawl's unappealing competitive environment. It also encourages a defensive approach to fighting, and who likes watching characters poke each other? People that don't care too much about physics like, but again, why alter something that didn't break, thus losing your more competitive crowd? Isn't the point to appeal as most gamers as you can instead of catering to one audience?
Second, character balance. Some characters received needed buffs, especially Kirby, Ness, and Zelda, while a few others got nerfs, including Fox, Marth, and Sheik. These help balance the game a bit, but there are some unneeded nerfs. Take Ganondorf, for instance. He didn't even break the game in Melee, so why did Brawl suddenly made Ganondorf even slower? Did they think he was way too blazing fast in Melee? And what about Link? Was he way too strong in Melee, so he needed a nerf on his B-up and other attacks? Samus certainly needed much less knock-back because her attacks cause too much in the first place. And Mario's B-down is too strong and his forward smash has a way too big hitbox. Let's change it to a nearly useless attack while giving his forward smash a smaller sweetspot. Yeah, Mario was way too overpowered in Melee, so let's make him suck. Same goes for Link, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff.
Why are there unnecessary nerfs? Could they have instead attempted to patch bad Melee characters while toning down great Melee characters? Why make bad characters worse? As a result, you get a horribly imbalanced game.
More invincibility frames. Again, to encourage a more defensive game, more invincibility frames are added to air dodging and rolling to the point where it's easily spammable. Again, why was the change added? Tell me.
Unnecessary Additions
Tripping. That's it.
Why add a mechanic that serves no purpose other than factoring more luck than necessary? You should win in Brawl because nothing is out of your control. Tripping just punishes you for running. Why? Just why? I'm not talking about attacks causing people to trip; I'm fine with that. What I hate is the stupid random punishment that can potentially alter the course of a match. That's bad. What's the reasoning behind adding tripping? Whoever thought tripping was a good idea to include in the game should be fed to Petey Piranha, because tripping is perhaps the most unpopular change Brawl has received.
Final Smashes are a poor attempt to appeal to the more casual audience. They are horribly imbalanced, and some of them are totally out of place with the character. Luigi, for instance, gets a really weird and out-of-character dance thing. Why do they emphasize on Luigi's sad demeanor? Luigi isn't even sad in the first place for crying out loud in the Mario games, so why does Luigi act and sound so differently in Brawl? Luigi could use actual attacks from the Mario games, but no, Brawl had to give Luigi this stupid final smash.
Mario's final smash, although it's nice to look at, is also totally random. Again, he has so many "final smash-like" attacks from his games. The Mega Mushroom. The Star man. Plethora of powerups. Mario has so many options, but Brawl decides to give him a totally random attack.
Speaking of which, I can go on and rant all day about how many Mario characters act very unlike to their main-game counterparts, but that's another post.
Unnecessary Removals
Why remove L-canceling instead of simply making it automatic? Link, for instance; is his down-air too overpowered with L-canceling? Removing L-canceling is stupid. I didn't like spamming L after a mid-air attack reaches the ground, but the point is to help your character recover faster after he lands in the ground. It certainly helps for Link, but it also also helps for characters that rely on their aerial attacks for main damage. Removing L-canceling, as a result, limits your options from approaching your opponents. In Melee, you can short hop, fast fall, then L-cancel. This SHFFL technique helps characters combo with aerial attacks. Without L-canceling, this technique is gone. L-canceling didn't hurt the more casual gamers from enjoying Melee, so what gives?
Okay, later, I'm going to rant about the game on things other than gameplay mechanics.
Unnecessary Changes
First, hitstun. This is the character being unable to attack after she takes damage. Super Smash Bros. had a ton of it, which allowed for serious combos. Melee reduced it a bit, but it still allowed for great combos to work. In Brawl, this hitstun is nonexistent. I don't understand why it is reduced further. It's a pointless "tweak" that Brawl received, and all it does is to contribute to Brawl's unappealing competitive environment. It also encourages a defensive approach to fighting, and who likes watching characters poke each other? People that don't care too much about physics like, but again, why alter something that didn't break, thus losing your more competitive crowd? Isn't the point to appeal as most gamers as you can instead of catering to one audience?
Second, character balance. Some characters received needed buffs, especially Kirby, Ness, and Zelda, while a few others got nerfs, including Fox, Marth, and Sheik. These help balance the game a bit, but there are some unneeded nerfs. Take Ganondorf, for instance. He didn't even break the game in Melee, so why did Brawl suddenly made Ganondorf even slower? Did they think he was way too blazing fast in Melee? And what about Link? Was he way too strong in Melee, so he needed a nerf on his B-up and other attacks? Samus certainly needed much less knock-back because her attacks cause too much in the first place. And Mario's B-down is too strong and his forward smash has a way too big hitbox. Let's change it to a nearly useless attack while giving his forward smash a smaller sweetspot. Yeah, Mario was way too overpowered in Melee, so let's make him suck. Same goes for Link, Ganondorf, Captain Falcon, and Jigglypuff.
Why are there unnecessary nerfs? Could they have instead attempted to patch bad Melee characters while toning down great Melee characters? Why make bad characters worse? As a result, you get a horribly imbalanced game.
More invincibility frames. Again, to encourage a more defensive game, more invincibility frames are added to air dodging and rolling to the point where it's easily spammable. Again, why was the change added? Tell me.
Unnecessary Additions
Tripping. That's it.
Why add a mechanic that serves no purpose other than factoring more luck than necessary? You should win in Brawl because nothing is out of your control. Tripping just punishes you for running. Why? Just why? I'm not talking about attacks causing people to trip; I'm fine with that. What I hate is the stupid random punishment that can potentially alter the course of a match. That's bad. What's the reasoning behind adding tripping? Whoever thought tripping was a good idea to include in the game should be fed to Petey Piranha, because tripping is perhaps the most unpopular change Brawl has received.
Final Smashes are a poor attempt to appeal to the more casual audience. They are horribly imbalanced, and some of them are totally out of place with the character. Luigi, for instance, gets a really weird and out-of-character dance thing. Why do they emphasize on Luigi's sad demeanor? Luigi isn't even sad in the first place for crying out loud in the Mario games, so why does Luigi act and sound so differently in Brawl? Luigi could use actual attacks from the Mario games, but no, Brawl had to give Luigi this stupid final smash.
Mario's final smash, although it's nice to look at, is also totally random. Again, he has so many "final smash-like" attacks from his games. The Mega Mushroom. The Star man. Plethora of powerups. Mario has so many options, but Brawl decides to give him a totally random attack.
Speaking of which, I can go on and rant all day about how many Mario characters act very unlike to their main-game counterparts, but that's another post.
Unnecessary Removals
Why remove L-canceling instead of simply making it automatic? Link, for instance; is his down-air too overpowered with L-canceling? Removing L-canceling is stupid. I didn't like spamming L after a mid-air attack reaches the ground, but the point is to help your character recover faster after he lands in the ground. It certainly helps for Link, but it also also helps for characters that rely on their aerial attacks for main damage. Removing L-canceling, as a result, limits your options from approaching your opponents. In Melee, you can short hop, fast fall, then L-cancel. This SHFFL technique helps characters combo with aerial attacks. Without L-canceling, this technique is gone. L-canceling didn't hurt the more casual gamers from enjoying Melee, so what gives?
Okay, later, I'm going to rant about the game on things other than gameplay mechanics.
SonicMario
Star Spirit
I can give on Tripping. But I don't find Mario and Luigi's Final Smashes that weird. Mario's Final Smash is pure, unadulterated awesome in my honest opinion. And while I suppose the trophy description makes Luigi's Negative Zone a bit odd in context I find it to be quite a unique Final Smash gives Luigi quite an advantage. Especially on Small Stages. Final Smashes are supposed to give the character using it an edge.
And it's not even put alone to Mario and Luigi anyway. I mean Peach has never been able to make Peaches out of nowhere while making everyone sleep. Or Yoshi doesn't sprout Wings and able to breath fire at will (Though I suppose technically if you got Winged Yoshi and then swallowed a fire ball in Super Mario World it may work). I don't think it's entirely a big deal that the Final Smashes aren't all based on something from their games. Considering SSB's made stuff up from the very beginning (Captain Falcon's moveset in SSB64) I think there's room for some leniency on this.
And it's not even put alone to Mario and Luigi anyway. I mean Peach has never been able to make Peaches out of nowhere while making everyone sleep. Or Yoshi doesn't sprout Wings and able to breath fire at will (Though I suppose technically if you got Winged Yoshi and then swallowed a fire ball in Super Mario World it may work). I don't think it's entirely a big deal that the Final Smashes aren't all based on something from their games. Considering SSB's made stuff up from the very beginning (Captain Falcon's moveset in SSB64) I think there's room for some leniency on this.
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- MarioWiki
- Mario
I think Luigi is better suited with a Final Smash coming from an original game. See, I don't mind original movesets. In Captain Falcon's case, Captain Falcon doesn't have much options from his games to work with, so they gave him unique moves. The main problem I have with Mario and Luigi (Mario's Final Smash looks cool; I said that) is that while Captain Falcon have barely anything to work with, Mario, Luigi, Peach, and Bowser have a huge history of games that have moves suitable for Final Smashes.
Super Smash Bros. is meant to represent a lot of well-series as best as it can, and if characters don't get their moves from their games, then how can they get represented well? The Mario series is poorly represented in nearly every aspect in Brawl (the characters, their voices, their stages, their personality, and their moves), which is very disappointing to me, especially since the Mario series is Nintendo's flagship series. How can they butcher the series so thoroughly like that? I know, in quantity, the Mario series gets a lot of stuff, but all of that is poorly done.
Super Smash Bros. is meant to represent a lot of well-series as best as it can, and if characters don't get their moves from their games, then how can they get represented well? The Mario series is poorly represented in nearly every aspect in Brawl (the characters, their voices, their stages, their personality, and their moves), which is very disappointing to me, especially since the Mario series is Nintendo's flagship series. How can they butcher the series so thoroughly like that? I know, in quantity, the Mario series gets a lot of stuff, but all of that is poorly done.
I agree with you some things on the character balance and completely on the RANDOM tripping (which is apparently 1%, or 2% for Luigi but if you trip that often from 1% I don't want to play with 3% LOL)
TBH I can't really say Marth got nerfed nor can I really say Zelda got buffed either.
Mario's Down-B I agree it shouldn't have been replaced; FLUDD is way too situational and Mario Tornado was a great recovery tool.
Though Forward Smash idk how it's bad, and the sourspot actually gives more knockback. Its range is also pretty dang good. As shown here, thanks to Stutter-Stepping.
L Canceling I didn't like pressing the shield button everytime you landed with an aerial but I believe auto canceling substitutes that lol
Though I will acknowledge Melee did some key things better than Brawl.
TBH I can't really say Marth got nerfed nor can I really say Zelda got buffed either.
Mario's Down-B I agree it shouldn't have been replaced; FLUDD is way too situational and Mario Tornado was a great recovery tool.
Though Forward Smash idk how it's bad, and the sourspot actually gives more knockback. Its range is also pretty dang good. As shown here, thanks to Stutter-Stepping.
L Canceling I didn't like pressing the shield button everytime you landed with an aerial but I believe auto canceling substitutes that lol
Though I will acknowledge Melee did some key things better than Brawl.
- Thread starter
- #35
For example, wavedashing.Timmy said: