Melee vs. Brawl

Dr. Javelin said:
Ornithologist Mario said:
Well, people do test how good the characters are.

The problem is that characters have an unintentional advantage or disadvantage, like Meta Knight's infinite dimensional cape.
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That move is irrelevant; it's banned in most tournaments or any other competition worth playing.

Meta Knight is just good because of how insanely awesome his combos are.
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Of course the aforementioned move is irrelevant. I was only stating an example. However, a better example of unintended advantages would be wavedashing, shining, and chain grabbing. Well, actually, they're techniques exploiting the game's physics, but I don't think these attacks are part of the developers' intentions.

Meta Knight is insanely cheap because his attacks have almost no lag and one of his attacks has a very high priority (Mach Tornado). He's almost impossible to kill considering his quick attacks, high priority move, good air mobility, and so many recovery moves.
 
Drilbur said:
Cons of Brawl:
It's floatier than Melee.
You can't combo as well.
It's way too easy to recover.
They took out wavedashing.
The air dodge is simplified.
The tripping.

Pros of Brawl:
I CAN MAKE MARIO FIGHT SONIC!
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Oh c'mon there's more Pros then that. Though I guess in a sense I never really cared about the advanced stuff like Wavedashing.

They're both great games and it depends on your tastes on which you like better. Melee has the whole nostalgia factor and faster gameplay. Brawl had more and better content, and a both larger and more varied character roster. And while Brawl was slow compared to Melee it was still faster then SSB64.
 
Northern Verve said:
Oh c'mon there's more Pros then that. Though I guess in a sense I never really cared about the advanced stuff like Wavedashing.
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This. Why should I be required to learn an advanced exploit in order to compete competitively?
 
Melee had better CPU opponents when Brawl's opponents simply try to team up on you. :P
 
Magikrazy, how, how did you left out the awesome soundtrack Brawl had?
 
God I could never choose. Melee holds tons of nostalgia for me and introduced trophies (which I always liked), but Brawl has an awesome character variety and music unlocking (which I also liked).
 
Brawl has the ability to get texture/music/character/stage/etc. hacked, which makes me always want to go back.

Otherwise, Melee is more fun.
 
Baby Luigi said:
Magikrazy, how, how did you left out the awesome soundtrack Brawl had?
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I was referencing Brawl in the Family. Kirby wsa playing Brawl, and the cons were what Dedede complained about, saying Melee was way better. Kirby said that simple sentence on the bottom of my list, and Dedede joined in.
 
Oh, but we took it seriously :|
 
I knew it, but I wanted to add on. :P
 
Both games have good points and several new introductions to new features.

But lets begin.

Melee was a faster game, with some interesting mechanics, also had some cool cool stages and the giga bowser fight was amazing, sadly it suffered from a horrible roster(mainly due to clone gameplay) and many nerfed(Kirby, DK, for example) and weak new characters(Mewtwo). The adventure mode was also horribly boring and got very repetitive, being the faster way to unlock characters. Ai was also pretty stupid due to not falling for easy traps and not very good at adapting, as well as horrible decision at tactics.

Brawl balanced the roster far more than melee did, as well as just had a better roster in general, and the subspace emissary(sp?) was better than melees adventure mode. It also had customizable music options for stages, and had slightly better ai(untill you got in free for all matches), sadly the good things end there. Subspace emissary had terrible level design and mostly boring boss battles, theres also the fact that again, many characters were nerfed and new ones got it pretty bad, but still more balanced than melee. Theres also the fact that most new stages didn't feel that great to me, the stage editor was also really limited, tripping is just a little annoying, but the game was also significantly slower and more floaty. Which isn't that great for a fighting game imho. Items are a little too powerful too, especially when thrown baseball bats can do like near 30% damage and can knock off most characters near 115% damage(probably sooner but i havent played the game in a few years so give me a break).

Welp and ill just say that both games have decent visuals, and great osts. Both games are pretty fair but have issues having to work out.

and creators trying to not make a fighting game competitive isn't going to work, because well, if a game has a vs mode of any kind, its going to be competitive.

Although all fighting games have overpowered characters too, so its not surprising seeing meta-knight being banned.
 
I have some arguments to make.

Melee, in terms of characters, not the characters' functions, actually had a decent roster. Yes, there were more clones than preferred, but with Bowser, Peach, Ganondorf, Zelda/Sheik, and others, the roster is decent.

Adventure mode does get repetitive, but what I liked most about this mode is that you are a Nintendo character crossing different Nintendo worlds. Mario in a Zelda dungeon. Link running in an F-Zero racetrack. Ness stomping on Goombas. That's what a crossover should be. In Brawl, however, we instead get mostly original enemies and levels, which wasn't a good move for a crossover. Also, I found Adventure Mode fun when I was smaller.

The AI is dumb, but that's the reason they are so fun to play against. They play to win, not to make you lose, unlike Brawl's horrid computers.

Melee was competitive as well. It was actually an unintended effect, but it's a rare gift, nevertheless. Melee is one of those few games where it can be both be enjoyed in a party or a tournament.
 
Ornithologist Mario said:
I have some arguments to make.

Melee, in terms of characters, not the characters' functions, actually had a decent roster. Yes, there were more clones than preferred, but with Bowser, Peach, Ganondorf, Zelda/Sheik, and others, the roster is decent.

Adventure mode does get repetitive, but what I liked most about this mode is that you are a Nintendo character crossing different Nintendo worlds. Mario in a Zelda dungeon. Link running in an F-Zero racetrack. Ness stomping on Goombas. That's what a crossover should be. In Brawl, however, we instead get mostly original enemies and levels, which wasn't a good move for a crossover. Also, I found Adventure Mode fun when I was smaller.

The AI is dumb, but that's the reason they are so fun to play against. They play to win, not to make you lose, unlike Brawl's horrid computers.

Melee was competitive as well. It was actually an unintended effect, but it's a rare gift, nevertheless. Melee is one of those few games where it can be both be enjoyed in a party or a tournament.
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I'm making more judgement to the roster functions than the actual character list, so yeah but in terms of characters in total it was kind of up and down with me. Didn't really care for many characters, such as Ganondorf, pichu, and dr. mario.

But I loved the addition of Falcon and Mewtwo so I'm not sure on what to say about the character list.

Adventure mode was just so bad to me due to how many times I played it and really, that may be just pure bias coming off me so don't mind that.

Although you have a fairly good point, the subpspace emissary in brawl didn't really introduce much of a crossover world, but rather a world with just main characters from other games and a world full of new original stuff.

Which is a bit lackluster, and should have been thought up better.

Melee is pretty competitive, many other fighting games also exist in the same format; glitches. Because melees glitches could used to an interesting affect, much like marvel vs capcom 2 and street fighter 2, created a pretty surprising effect.

Many fighting games most experienced fighters actually rely on said effects, so its not that surprising it happened with melee.

Like you said melee can be either, you don't have to be competitive to enjoy online play, but tournaments you must always prepared for. No matter the game.

My post format is rather confusing in this post, ill fix that in a bit.
 
The problem between competitive and casual, it's that it's blurred. I actually participated in a Brawl tournament and got 3rd place using Mario. Mario isn't a competent character (I lost to a Marth user), and the opponents I faced previously are 99% CPU opponent. I don't want to play for money. I want to play to win and enjoy it at the same time. For me, Melee is a better game for me, although I will never master wave-dashing.

Melee had plenty of the solid, known characters that were supposed to be in Super Smash Bros. The roster had doubled compared to Super Smash Bros.'s original roster.

Brawl introduced third party characters, which I thought was a nice step, despite its being a Nintendo crossover. I like to see Mario beat up Sonic and Snake chase after Link.

The Subspace Emissary's story is also seriously flawed. The Kirby bias is very evident here and Mario (who's not even with Luigi) and Link get almost no role.
 
I've actually been playing Melee recently since my Wii needs to be cleaned in order to use Brawl. Before the past week I hadn't even played it since before I got Brawl.

And Melee's is just as fun as I remembered it was. I still prefer Brawl however, but that's not an insult to Melee in the slightest. SSB64 is the the worst of the 3 but that was a pretty good game for it's time. Melee and Brawl just improved and perfected what SSB64 lacked. I love the Smash series as I basically grew up with it. Each one IMO is better then the last but there's no shame in Melee taking 2nd place. Hell SSB64 shouldn't feel shame for being last. I love all 3 games with a passion, and I can't wait to love SSB4 which will no doubt in my mind will leave both Melee and Brawl in the dust.
 
The problem between competitive and casual, it's that it's blurred. I actually participated in a Brawl tournament and got 3rd place using Mario. Mario isn't a competent character (I lost to a Marth user), and the opponents I faced previously are 99% CPU opponent. I don't want to play for money. I want to play to win and enjoy it at the same time. For me, Melee is a better game for me, although I will never master wave-dashing.

Melee had plenty of the solid, known characters that were supposed to be in Super Smash Bros. The roster had doubled compared to Super Smash Bros.'s original roster.

Brawl introduced third party characters, which I thought was a nice step, despite its being a Nintendo crossover. I like to see Mario beat up Sonic and Snake chase after Link.

The Subspace Emissary's story is also seriously flawed. The Kirby bias is very evident here and Mario (who's not even with Luigi) and Link get almost no role.
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Brawl isn't that hard to learn since it really doesn't have much to it. Melee on the other hand has more but yeah wave-dashing is a bit annoying.



also SSE is truely is flawed. Almost no character even has a personality, and most of the time you cant really tell whats going on or it just feels like that.

Although I can agree with no mario and link role, pretty much the heart of the nintendo franchise. The only thing I really remember is where one of them jumps in the air and tries to attack the other. :/
 
The reason Meta Knight is so awesome:
He used a nerf machine and absorbed all the powerful smashers in melee, so he could become extra-powerful!
 
Ornithologist Mario said:
Melee had better CPU opponents when Brawl's opponents simply try to team up on you. :P
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From what I can gather, Melee CPUs can also gang up on you if you're leading in a match. Of course, Melee CPUs are much more predictable than Brawl CPUs.
 
^Yes, but if the computers are close enough, they'll actually attack each other. They're both trying to get you, but at least they perceive each other as foes.
 
MnSG said:
Ornithologist Mario said:
Melee had better CPU opponents when Brawl's opponents simply try to team up on you. :P
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From what I can gather, Melee CPUs can also gang up on you if you're leading in a match. Of course, Melee CPUs are much more predictable than Brawl CPUs.
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They do, but they also go in periods of targeting each other. Like, when you're out of reach of them, they attack each other.

Let me give you an awesome example: Flat Zone. In this place, if you stay out of the stage in the very edges, the computers won't even bother attacking you and they'll attack each other instead. In Brawl, they don't attempt to attack each other when you're out of reach, they just wait for you
 
Baby Luigi said:
MnSG said:
Ornithologist Mario said:
Melee had better CPU opponents when Brawl's opponents simply try to team up on you. :P
Click to expand...

From what I can gather, Melee CPUs can also gang up on you if you're leading in a match. Of course, Melee CPUs are much more predictable than Brawl CPUs.
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They do, but they also go in periods of targeting each other. Like, when you're out of reach of them, they attack each other.

Let me give you an awesome example: Flat Zone. In this place, if you stay out of the stage in the very edges, the computers won't even bother attacking you and they'll attack each other instead. In Brawl, they don't attempt to attack each other when you're out of reach, they just wait for you
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But running away works against humans too... people don't always gang up on the winning player.
 
Dr. Javelin said:
Baby Luigi said:
MnSG said:
Ornithologist Mario said:
Melee had better CPU opponents when Brawl's opponents simply try to team up on you. :P
Click to expand...

From what I can gather, Melee CPUs can also gang up on you if you're leading in a match. Of course, Melee CPUs are much more predictable than Brawl CPUs.
Click to expand...

They do, but they also go in periods of targeting each other. Like, when you're out of reach of them, they attack each other.

Let me give you an awesome example: Flat Zone. In this place, if you stay out of the stage in the very edges, the computers won't even bother attacking you and they'll attack each other instead. In Brawl, they don't attempt to attack each other when you're out of reach, they just wait for you
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But running away works against humans too... people don't always gang up on the winning player.
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Our point with computers is that they behave much differently in Brawl than in Melee. In Brawl, the CPUs gang up on you, no matter what the circumstances are
 
I normally only fight one or two computers. Fighting against 3 is kinda nuts. So I don't think I've experienced this ganging up all that much. And of course they're all trying to beat you in stuff like the Event Matches or in Classic/Adventure mode.
 
I fight against 3 most of the time, but they're Level 3. Even at that level, they show signs of ganging up on me, but not as much as Level 9's

When I trapped them in a Stage Builder stage, they sometimes stop attacking each other and jump around, trying to escape and access me. Really, they do that.
 
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