Our reference pages need a massive overhaul

[Troy McClure]

The Super Mario series has certainly spawned a lot of references in other media, hasn't it? Anyone on television or a movie, or in a book could don a red hat and mustache, say "Wahoo!" and we'd count it as a reference to good 'ol Mario.

However, our documentation and presentation of these references are severely flawed, and we need to define what exactly a reference to Mario is and if it counts. Many, many "references" are just mentions or appearances without any further Mario association, which shouldn't be counted as a reference, as anyone could mention Mario or Donkey Kong or anyone could play Mario Kart in a work.

What a Mario reference is:

A parody:

A cameo of a character or object:

A character that resembles Mario as a deliberate reference

A Mario level design or Donkey Kong level design is shown:

A mention in dialogue that isn't just a character's name or game title:

In the episode "Going, Going, Gauntlet!", while in her mother's car, Miko says, "Mama, drop a triple mushroom on this beast!" as a nod to the Triple Mushrooms.

What a Mario reference isn't:

A brief appearance of sound effects without a Mario-specific reference accompanying it:

Grizzy plays a virtual reality game on a smart tablet, which uses sound effects from Super Mario Bros., namely the Mushroom sound effects and the fanfare used when Mario completes a level.

A mention of a character or game without a Mario-specific reference accompanying it:

In series 15 episode 52, when Zoë Ball is introducing a segment about motion capture being used for dancing in video games, she says "When you think of video game duos, you think of Mario and Luigi, Sonic and Tails, Chloe and Neil".

Something Mario related in the background as a product or arcade game, or a Mario game being played by characters briefly:

In one scene in the sixth episode of the first season, "Just Jen", the groomsmen at Lulu's wedding are seen playing Mario Kart on the Nintendo Switch.

In the episode "Red Dress", an image of Mario can be seen on a Nintendo 64 box behind Malcolm's bed.

In the episode Bad Crazy, a Donkey Kong Jr. arcade cabinet can be seen.

A question on a game show, or winning an award:

Paper Mario: Color Splash was nominated for "Favorite Video Game", other nominations included Pokémon Sun and Moon.

In the seventh episode of series 5, the Lion wall in the third round included the words "World", "64", "Land" and "Bros.", all of which pertained to the category "'Super Mario' games". The wall also contained the red herrings "Sunshine" and "Galaxy".

A majority of the references listed on the pages don't even have images or reference tags showing what exactly Is being mentioned or shown, which is a major problem in it of itself. If we do rework and trim the references pages, we should also find photos or videos of said references for them, instead of having it be just casually mentioned on the section.

I hope this can lead to these reference pages being much more cleaner to browse.

 

[Sparks]

Speaking of references, I don't think every instance of a character rolling something towards someone else is a direct reference to Donkey Kong.

This scene from The Simpsons has Homer rolling garbage cans at Mario. It's definitely a reference because Homer acts like Donkey Kong, and Mario grabs a hammer and uses it the exact same way like in the original Donkey Kong. Mario even spins when hit by a can!

This random enemy from Crash Bandicoot rolls barrels down the path to attack, although some of them bounce. The enemy looks to be a large rodent, and the stage is 3D. I wouldn't count this as a reference. If the stage was 2D with slopes leading upwards to the top of something or if the enemy was a large ape resembling DK, than this would be a reference.

I discussed this a few days ago on the Discord server, and I may even make a proposal about this sometime in the future. Rolling objects to attack is common in video games, but most of them aren't really referencing Donkey Kong. They just seem like coincidences instead. Hopefully the proposal will clear up a lot of these instances.

 

[Salmancer]

Eh, I think the system works. An image for everything decreases reading quality drastically. We'll run out of text long before we run out of images, even if we start putting them to the left and to the right of the text. I also personally think that name references count. Yes, it's minor, but Zoe Bell saying that the Mario Bros. are well known characters indicates that the target audience of Strictly Come Dancing: It Takes Two likely knows what Super Mario is. That means something. Not alot, but something. "Something" is worth noting. As an extension of this, Mario sound effects being used to shorthand "video game" is also "something", namely Super Mario being a defining part of video game culture.

 

[Koopa con Carne]

Some discretion is fine, yes. For instance, I agree with Sparks that the Crash Bandicoot enemy doesn't really embody Donkey Kong, albeit I can understand if someone finds it reminiscent. However, the examples provided under "What a Mario reference isn't" seem a little arbitrary. As long as something related to Mario, like a sound effect, was added (especially with intent) in a work that aired on a large network, was produced and/or distributed by a significant company, or is otherwise well-known and notable, then that reference is worth documenting on the wiki.

The question I'd rather ask is how we define "notable". Simpsons, Futurama, and Arthur obviously are, but it might be conducive to look over a few of the lesser-known entries individually and consult with each other on their validity, similarly to how it was done in the recent proposal on Mario memes. (For the record, no, I wouldn't necessarily turn to what Wikipedia considers to be notable, because their system of coverage is drastically different to the Mario Wiki's.)

 

[Troy McClure]

On the sound effects, it should only be counted as a reference if there'a a Mario association going along with it, an example being if a character collects a Mushroom and the sound effect from Super Mario Bros. plays as they grow.

Just having the character play a non-Mario video game with random Mario sound effects to simulate video game noises is not a reference, it's just using those sounds as, well, sounds.