Paper Mario: Color Splash

[Mcmadness]

No, this bizarre concept of stories being mandatory in rpgs is why there are so many different rpgs out there with really boring or mediocre plots that just bog down what is otherwise a fun and enjoyable experience.

Hell I can name several rpgs out there that have little to no story and they are still great to play.

 

[Time Turner]

The main draw of a role-playing game is that you play a role while you also play the game. It's hardly like games need to strictly follow the standard formula, but I think it's silly to say that stories actively make a game worse. I mean, for me, the story is what makes the gameplay actually have purpose. I could be killing a giant dragon just because it happens to be there, or I could be killing a giant dragon to take revenge for destroying my village. Personally, I much prefer the latter.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

The plots of the Mario RPGs are well-known as being well-written and enjoyable, especially the Paper Mario series.

Not only that, but people also really like the original characters, such as Goombella, Koops, Vivian, Yoshi Kid, Bobbery, etc., and seeing all those great characters be replaced by Toads is just heartbreaking.

 

[Mcmadness]

The main draw of a role-playing game is that you play a role while you also play the game. It's hardly like games need to strictly follow the standard formula, but I think it's silly to say that stories actively make a game worse. I mean, for me, the story is what makes the gameplay actually have purpose. I could be killing a giant dragon just because it happens to be there, or I could be killing a giant dragon to take revenge for destroying my village. Personally, I much prefer the latter.

The main draw of an rpg involves playing a character who goes about doing various repetitive things in order to get better at doing those repetitive things to take on more challenging versions of those repetitive things.

As I said adding a story isn't an automatic good thing. It requires careful implementation or else you have about 90% of the rpg market these days.

The plots of the Mario RPGs are well-known as being well-written and enjoyable, especially the Paper Mario series.

To whom? You mean the majority of the Mario rpg fanbase who have barely played any other rpgs in their life and don't realize how hilariously mediocre most of these characters and stories are?

 

[Time Turner]

The main draw of a role-playing game is that you play a role while you also play the game. It's hardly like games need to strictly follow the standard formula, but I think it's silly to say that stories actively make a game worse. I mean, for me, the story is what makes the gameplay actually have purpose. I could be killing a giant dragon just because it happens to be there, or I could be killing a giant dragon to take revenge for destroying my village. Personally, I much prefer the latter.

The main draw of an rpg involves playing a character who goes about doing various repetitive things in order to get better at doing those repetitive things to take on more challenging versions of those repetitive things.

...No? Categorically, I think a good chunk of RPG fans would disagree with you on that. If the only RPGs you're playing involve nothing but grinding and mundane tasks with nothing in between, you should try out different RPGs.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

The plots of the Mario RPGs are well-known as being well-written and enjoyable, especially the Paper Mario series.

To whom? You mean the majority of the Mario rpg fanbase who have barely played any other rpgs in their life and don't realize how hilariously mediocre most of these characters and stories are?

People who have played the Mario RPGs love the characters and stories, and most of them have played other RPGs, and they still love these games.

 

[Mcmadness]

...No? Categorically, I think a good chunk of RPG fans would disagree with you on that. If the only RPGs you're playing involve nothing but grinding and mundane tasks with nothing in between, you should try out different RPGs.

I was giving a vague description of the average gameplay of an rpg. It's a game, not a book, not a movie. You are here to play it. Whatever system it uses for it's gameplay, thats the primary reason these things exist.

If story was what mattered, if story was mandatory for rpgs then they would have never gotten off the ground in the first place.
Also I've been playing rpgs all my life and have even retroactively played games older than I am.

People who have played the Mario RPGs love the characters and stories, and most of them have played other RPGs, and they still love these games.

You would be surprised. The Mario rpg fanbase is barring a few exceptions one of the most ignorant I've seen when it comes to the genre. Which isn't surprising as Mario rpgs by their very nature are designed to appeal to people who don't play rpgs all that much, if at all.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

People who have played the Mario RPGs love the characters and stories, and most of them have played other RPGs, and they still love these games.

You would be surprised. The Mario rpg fanbase is barring a few exceptions one of the most ignorant I've seen when it comes to the genre. Which isn't surprising as Mario rpgs by their very nature are designed to appeal to people who don't play rpgs all that much, if at all.

No, you, sir, are the ignorant one. People who play Mario RPGs have played other RPGs, including Fire Emblem and others, and they do admit that certain RPGs are better than certain Mario RPGs. However, that does not mean they are not true RPGs, because they have everything everyone would want in an RPG, which are: great story, great characters, and great gameplay. These games can be enjoyed by both hardcore RPG fans and mainstream Nintendo fans.

 

[GalacticPetey]

You sound like the people who shit on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

 

[Time Turner]

...No? Categorically, I think a good chunk of RPG fans would disagree with you on that. If the only RPGs you're playing involve nothing but grinding and mundane tasks with nothing in between, you should try out different RPGs.

I was giving a vague description of the average gameplay of an rpg. It's a game, not a book, not a movie. You are here to play it. Whatever system it uses for it's gameplay, thats the primary reason these things exist.

If story was what mattered, if story was mandatory for rpgs then they would have never gotten off the ground in the first place.

First of all, the RPGs that know what they're doing don't partake in repetitive tasks all that often, even in broad strokes (unless you consider generically fighting enemies to be repetitive, in which case you ignore enemies who continually require new and different strategies to surpass), but this also ignores games that blend the two together, notably The Last of Us, The Walking Dead, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Undertale, and others. I'm not saying that gameplay isn't important, but you're underestimating the importance of a good story, or at the very least good motivations for the characters to do what they do. Also, could I ask which RPGs don't stress the story all that much? The only ones I can think of are the ones that give the player the ability to roam near-infinitely, like Bethesda's games, and even then, there's a huge emphasis placed on story that the player can simply ignore in favor of skewering rats.

Also I've been playing rpgs all my life and have even retroactively played games older than I am.

Same here.

You sound like the people who shit on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

RPGs have had stories since the first Final Fantasy game came out and long before that, so I don't think that's where he's coming from.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

You sound like the people who shit on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

RPGs have had stories since the first Final Fantasy game came out and long before that, so I don't think that's where he's coming from.

Actually, that might be exactly where he is coming from, even though his so-called "true RPGs" have story as well, which essentially makes him a hypocrite.

 

[Mcmadness]

You sound like the people who *bleep* on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

RPGs have had stories since the first Final Fantasy game came out and long before that, so I don't think that's where he's coming from.

Actually, that might be exactly where he is coming from, even though his so-called "true RPGs" have story as well, which essentially makes him a hypocrite.

Congratulations you have completely missinterpreted what I was saying.

 

[GalacticPetey]

...No? Categorically, I think a good chunk of RPG fans would disagree with you on that. If the only RPGs you're playing involve nothing but grinding and mundane tasks with nothing in between, you should try out different RPGs.

I was giving a vague description of the average gameplay of an rpg. It's a game, not a book, not a movie. You are here to play it. Whatever system it uses for it's gameplay, thats the primary reason these things exist.

If story was what mattered, if story was mandatory for rpgs then they would have never gotten off the ground in the first place.

First of all, the RPGs that know what they're doing don't partake in repetitive tasks all that often, even in broad strokes (unless you consider generically fighting enemies to be repetitive, in which case you ignore enemies who continually require new and different strategies to surpass), but this also ignores games that blend the two together, notably The Last of Us, The Walking Dead, Ico, Shadow of the Colossus, Undertale, and others. I'm not saying that gameplay isn't important, but you're underestimating the importance of a good story, or at the very least good motivations for the characters to do what they do. Also, could I ask which RPGs don't stress the story all that much? The only ones I can think of are the ones that give the player the ability to roam near-infinitely, like Bethesda's games, and even then, there's a huge emphasis placed on story that the player can simply ignore in favor of skewering rats.

Also I've been playing rpgs all my life and have even retroactively played games older than I am.

Same here.

You sound like the people who shit on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

RPGs have had stories since the first Final Fantasy game came out and long before that, so I don't think that's where he's coming from.

Eh. It's just that I've often come across a group of people who are always rambling "In my day we didn't have no stinking story all we had was gameplay". It might be a generational thing, but some people just can't handle actual plot and characters in their games.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

You sound like the people who *bleep* on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

RPGs have had stories since the first Final Fantasy game came out and long before that, so I don't think that's where he's coming from.

Actually, that might be exactly where he is coming from, even though his so-called "true RPGs" have story as well, which essentially makes him a hypocrite.

Congratulations you have completely missinterpreted what I was saying.

No, I'm pretty sure that you are misinterpreting what we are saying. We keep trying to tell you why people love the stories and characters in Mario RPGs, but you just go "NOPE, MARIO RPGS AREN'T REAL RPGS" even though they fit the criteria completely, and you keep saying that to everyone, because god forbid anyone enjoy the Mario RPGs without hearing you bitch about them.

But I'm done with trying to talk reason with you. This is starting to turn into a flame war, and we all know what that leads to.

 

[Ray Trace]

You sound like the people who *bleep* on any game made after the 90s simply because they decided to include more story and character elements. God forbid the medium evolves to also include compelling narratives. Not saying the Mario RPGs are weaving great plots but still, there are people who refuse to play OoT because they can't handle talking. and would rather mindlessly hit things.

i'm pretty sure you're strawmanning what mcmadness is trying to say. he's not saying that story is a superfluous that sucks out the fun from gameplay, nor is he even advocating to get rid of story in all games. his point is that the mario series isn't a story driven stories, and fans shouldn't throw that much of a huge stink over the story in the mario rpgs.

story isn't mandatory for rpgs at all. the slower pace of rpgs general allow for stories to be told, but consider this: rpgs are a huge and incredibly diverse genre and there are many reasons for certain rpgs to not include stories either and still be great and memorable games: i'm thinking about mmorpgs, hack-and-slashes, dungeon crawlers (like diablo), and whatever.

though, on the flipside, mcmadness, it's totally ok to like the story and whatever in mario rpgs, regardless if you haven't played the others. this is coming from someone who likes a whatever, mediocre character (who is a derivative of another, even) over the most likable and most written and deepest characters in video games.

times like this make me wish zae is back, he could elaborate why rpgs don't necessarily need a story better than me

 

[Mcmadness]

eh, tis alright, you make a good mediator

 

[Ray Trace]

i don't want you banned again mcmadness, just stop with the arguments of taste, mkay?

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

It isn't so much about stories in RPGs, it's just that he has been a gigantic ass from the beginning, and he refuses to accept listen to other people's opinions. He has made himself a strawman.

Also, yeah, we should really stop this discussion before we all get banned.

 

[Time Turner]

Now you're just picking on him for the sake of picking on him.

 

[Mcmadness]

i don't want you banned again mcmadness, just stop with the arguments of taste, mkay?

Will do.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

Now you're just picking on him for the sake of picking on him.

I wasn't really picking on him though, I was just listing why people get angry at him, and if he actually reads my post, he could try and improve himself in the future. Just some constructive criticism.

But we should really just stop this discussion before it gets messy.

 

[Ray Trace]

He has made himself a strawman.

refusing to listen to others isn't strawmanning it's just being a douche.

 

[Shy Guy Forever]

He has made himself a strawman.

refusing to listen to others isn't strawmanning it's just being a douche.

good point.

 

[Magikrazy]

It's exciting to visit a new world and see new characters. New characters means new possibilities for stories and interactions with other characters. The difference between Bombette and Bobbery is huge, and I am incredibly glad that we got Bobbery's storyline instead of just seeing Bombette again. Beyond that, even if they aren't new species or whatever, if the large majority of the cast is just taken from the last game, then why not just play the last game?

Well yeah, new characters do bring something to the table, and I did enjoy Bobbery.

My complaint with what they were (and to a lesser extent, still) doing is that they just bring in dozens of new characters and just throw them away after one game.

At the very least, they could bring back Goomba King again.

 

[Time Turner]

It's exciting to visit a new world and see new characters. New characters means new possibilities for stories and interactions with other characters. The difference between Bombette and Bobbery is huge, and I am incredibly glad that we got Bobbery's storyline instead of just seeing Bombette again. Beyond that, even if they aren't new species or whatever, if the large majority of the cast is just taken from the last game, then why not just play the last game?

Well yeah, new characters do bring something to the table, and I did enjoy Bobbery.

My complaint with what they were (and to a lesser extent, still) doing is that they just bring in dozens of new characters and just throw them away after one game.

At the very least, they could bring back Goomba King again.

Part of a new adventure is seeing new characters. I'd find it weird if Mario went to a brand-new location and somehow re-encountered all of his old friends, just as they were. I mean, it's Mario, so it's not like they have much room to drastically change the character without them just deciding to make a new character for convenience.