“Daisy is just a Peach clone!” The Ultimate Response

[memoryman3]

She's not a real clone until she becomes playable in Smash Bros.

I see what you did there!

I personally believe that Daisy won't be a full clone in Smash Bros. Alternate costumes are really really easy to make thanks to the new file structure, yet they kept Peach's palette swap. But at the same time, they added a ton of new trophies and references to Daisy in Smash 4. Sakurai stated that even characters with small differences and quirks get their own slot, with the Koopalings being the exception due to the Clown Car. Peach's move-set as a whole isn't exactly designed with Daisy in mind.

 

[Starlight24]

I don't think Daisy would be included anytime soon. it would be cool if she was , along with Waluigi , to have a full Mario cast.

Then again , what would Daisy do or represent that Peach doesn't

First of all , Daisy has no characteristics on her own besides using flowers , and those abilities are even sometimes reduced to being a copy of Peach signature hearts (see Mario Super Star Baseball)

In her debut Daisy did nothing , theres nothing that could be taken from there either.

Meanwhile another signature of Peach , that appears even outside Smash , is her Floating ability from SMB2.

Peach already has references to Golf And Tennis as she includes them in her side Smash , along with Super Mario RPG frying pan.

Yet another trademark of Peach is her umbrella. She uses it too.

Point is , many quirks that the characters have are unique to them from other games , nobody else does them

As far as i know , Daisy does nothing that Peach doesn't , but Peach indeed does things Daisy doesn't.

While Sakurai is perfectly capable to come out with something for Daisy , if her inclusion is planned , she as a character doesn't really have much going on for her unlike Peach or even Rosalina , who floats , has her wand , her magic powers and affiliation with Lumas.

Lastly whatever related to spin off , it seems to be also associated with Waluigi , as he was picked to be the character holding the Mario Tennis racket as an assist Trophy and not Daisy.

 

[memoryman3]

I don't think Daisy would be included anytime soon. it would be cool if she was , along with Waluigi , to have a full Mario cast.

Then again , what would Daisy do or represent that Peach doesn't

First of all , Daisy has no characteristics on her own besides using flowers , and those abilities are even sometimes reduced to being a copy of Peach signature hearts (see Mario Super Star Baseball)

In her debut Daisy did nothing , theres nothing that could be taken from there either.

Meanwhile another signature of Peach , that appears even outside Smash , is her Floating ability from SMB2.

Peach already has references to Golf And Tennis as she includes them in her side Smash , along with Super Mario RPG frying pan.

Yet another trademark of Peach is her umbrella. She uses it too.

Point is , many quirks that the characters have are unique to them from other games , nobody else does them

As far as i know , Daisy does nothing that Peach doesn't , but Peach indeed does things Daisy doesn't.

While Sakurai is perfectly capable to come out with something for Daisy , if her inclusion is planned , she as a character doesn't really have much going on for her unlike Peach or even Rosalina , who floats , has her wand , her magic powers and affiliation with Lumas.

Lastly whatever related to spin off , it seems to be also associated with Waluigi , as he was picked to be the character holding the Mario Tennis racket as an assist Trophy and not Daisy.

Oh yes....I never really thought of that.

But saying that Daisy can't do anything that Peach can't do also is false. Like in Mario Strikers, they each had very different specials. Even the "shovelware" Mario and Sonic series, and Mario Sports Mix gave her abilities which are consistent with flowers when needed, and act differently from Peach's variations.

For example, Daisy's Flower Dash differs from Peach's Mid Air float (she dashes in a straight direction with little control, vs the slow controlled float.)

And whilst in some games like Mario Party might dumb down or trivialise character traits, she still had a Flower Orb which acted differently from the other orbs.

Her main Smash trophies always seem to depict her in a sports outfit, the latest Smash had her in a baseball outfit and a tennis outfit. Peach had these trophies too, but her frying pans and golf clubs don't really dominate or play a significant part in her current moveset. It like saying Rosalina shouldn't be added because Zelda already has magic and the Ice Climbers exist as the tag team.

Most of Peach's moves are Smash exclusive, like the Peach Bomber. So it's not a stretch to see Daisy having Smash exclusive moves too that fit around a central theme.

Anyways, we aren't working at Nintendo so who knows?

 

[Ray Trace]

She's not a real clone until she becomes playable in Smash Bros.

I see what you did there!

I personally believe that Daisy won't be a full clone in Smash Bros. Alternate costumes are really really easy to make thanks to the new file structure, yet they kept Peach's palette swap. But at the same time, they added a ton of new trophies and references to Daisy in Smash 4. Sakurai stated that even characters with small differences and quirks get their own slot, with the Koopalings being the exception due to the Clown Car. Peach's move-set as a whole isn't exactly designed with Daisy in mind.

Making new movesets is an entirely new level of difficulty compared to merely making model swaps.

Though other than how Peach's moveset doesn't portray Daisy's moveset "correctly" I think they would be happier if they replaced the Peach palette swap with a Daisy alternate costume. Just trust me on this.

 

[memoryman3]

She's not a real clone until she becomes playable in Smash Bros.

I see what you did there!

I personally believe that Daisy won't be a full clone in Smash Bros. Alternate costumes are really really easy to make thanks to the new file structure, yet they kept Peach's palette swap. But at the same time, they added a ton of new trophies and references to Daisy in Smash 4. Sakurai stated that even characters with small differences and quirks get their own slot, with the Koopalings being the exception due to the Clown Car. Peach's move-set as a whole isn't exactly designed with Daisy in mind.

Making new movesets is an entirely new level of difficulty compared to merely making model swaps.

Though other than how Peach's moveset doesn't portray Daisy's moveset "correctly" I think they would be happier if they replaced the Peach palette swap with a Daisy alternate costume. Just trust me on this.

Well, that's exactly why I thought that if she was going to be an alt, they would have done it in Smash 4 already. The tools are all there to do so. Plus, simply model swapping Peach with Daisy would feel cheap IMO, like a full on clone with no slot to call his or her own. It would further fuel the "Daisy is a clone" argument.

If a supposed "low budget" series like Mario and Sonic can make her feel distinct, then it shouldn't be a problem for the Smash Bros team. We had a TON of unexpected additions this time around.

 

[Lee Chaolan]

Then again , what would Daisy do that Peach doesn't

Make my ears bleed

 

[J-Yoshi64]

Daisy can do so much more in terms of a Smash moveset. There are so many elements to spin-off games that they could all be turned into a unique moveset.

Many of Daisy's moves could also be derived from Super Mario Land, since Peach has a lot of Super Mario Bros. 2 in her moveset. In fact, I have been in the process of creating a whole moveset for Daisy. So far, none of her moves copy Peach's at all. Take a peak.

 

[Ray Trace]

Well, that's exactly why I thought that if she was going to be an alt, they would have done it in Smash 4 already. The tools are all there to do so. Plus, simply model swapping Peach with Daisy would feel cheap IMO, like a full on clone with no slot to call his or her own. It would further fuel the "Daisy is a clone" argument.

Just because the tools are there doesn't mean you can assemble a full-blown Daisy hack in less than a day, much less, a team devoted to creating a new moveset. It's the primary reason Smash new character DLC is expensive as it is too.

Creating movesets takes weeks, if not, months of development. Animation is an ass, and another huge chunk of the time would be spent rebalancing the moveset after trials and trials and even more trials of play.

Model swaps on the other hand avoid those huge steps you need to undertake to make a mod. The work exponentially gets greater the more effort gets placed into a hack

If a supposed "low budget" series like Mario and Sonic can make her feel distinct, then it shouldn't be a problem for the Smash Bros team. We had a TON of unexpected additions this time around.

Whoever thinks Mario & Sonic is a low budget series needs to get their head reexamined because it's most certainly not. Maybe it's not the highest quality spin-off game, but budget is something entirely separate from the quality of that game. Spin-off games undertake a lot of leeway to make characters unique, far more than the game with the highest budget, Mario Kart. Mario Sports Mix, Mario Super Sluggers, Mario Golf, and Mario Tennis are all games that put effort into making their characters unique. For example, despite Baby Mario having identical stats as Toadette in Mario Super Sluggers, he has different bat contact and a different tackle than her. In games like Mario Party or Fortune Street, despite characters having no discernible stats, they still make them unique as well, with animations and voice clips.

Mario & Sonic is far from the only game unique to making its playable characters interesting to play as.

 

[memoryman3]

Daisy can do so much more in terms of a Smash moveset. There are so many elements to spin-off games that they could all be turned into a unique moveset.

Many of Daisy's moves could also be derived from Super Mario Land, since Peach has a lot of Super Mario Bros. 2 in her moveset. In fact, I have been in the process of creating a whole moveset for Daisy. So far, none of her moves copy Peach's at all. Take a peak.

This looks nice. But I think most movesets would focus around a particular playstyle and have a general theme to it. It's why Sakurai does the proposal things first before thinking of the moveset. You also need to take combos and balancing into account too, such as how R.O.B has the Down Throw to the Flailing p air combo.

I always dreamed of a Daisy that's reasonably fast and safe ala Yoshi, but with less weight and a floral theme to her moves. I would LOVE for her to get a command grab based on a Pirahna Plant for instance, or a Superball projectile which bounces off shields and walls, leading to interesting set ups.

 

[Alex95]

I would like to see some of Daisy's moves be inspired by the sports games. Daisy has enough special sports moves in the games to make a full move-set, I think.

 

[memoryman3]

Let this old thread be resurrected thanks to Nintendo Switch speculation. Fun fact, Mario Party 4 Daisy was almost 1:1 with Peach, but now in the HD era, developers simply cannot get away with this.

 

[MoonAge]

christ not this again

Let this old thread be resurrected thanks to Nintendo Switch speculation. Fun fact, Mario Party 4 Daisy was almost 1:1 with Peach, but now in the HD era, developers simply cannot get away with this.

so they have to give daisy her own features...? like what they've doing since the wii era?

dare I ask, but what is exactly is your goal? daisy's already in a healthy number of spinoffs, so do you want her to appear in every nintendo game known to man

 

[Princess Céline]

Fun fact, Mario Party 4 Daisy was almost 1:1 with Peach, but now in the HD era, developers simply cannot get away with this.

They look more physically alike in Mario Party 3.

 

[YuruNex]

Fun fact, Mario Party 4 Daisy was almost 1:1 with Peach, but now in the HD era, developers simply cannot get away with this.

jokes aside i can completely understand that daisy is not nearly as much of a peach clone as she was back in the day, but as others have probably mentioned i don't think being "different" is enough to solidify a character's slot in smash

 

[DragonFreak]

Do you know who else is really different? King K Rool

 

[Starlight24]

No matter what you people think

Old Daisy > current Daisy.

Old Daisy didnt have a cancer fanbase , so there you go , instant win.

 

[Czario]

jokes aside i can completely understand that daisy is not nearly as much of a peach clone as she was back in the day, but as others have probably mentioned i don't think being "different" is enough to solidify a character's slot in smash

I question whether Rosalina even should have been in Smash.

 

[Princess Céline]

I question whether Rosalina even should have been in Smash.

I think one reason why Rosalina appeared so frequently after 3D World was because Nintendo wanted to establish her as a main character of the Mario series (unless she was already one at the time of her debut), instead of being a one-off character like Wart and Tatanga.

 

[Starlight24]

There's nothing to question.

Rosalina is a main character since forever ago , and just like many others , her inclusion in games after her debut was more to expand the roster than anything else , beside her being very well recived.

In the case of Smash , there's literally no other main or interesting character that actually matters that was left to be included , it was just natural that Sakurai had Rosalina and Bowser Jr on spot.

 

[DragonFreak]

>No other interesting character actually matters
>forgetting waluigi

 

[Lin Beifong]

jokes aside i can completely understand that daisy is not nearly as much of a peach clone as she was back in the day, but as others have probably mentioned i don't think being "different" is enough to solidify a character's slot in smash

I question whether Rosalina even should have been in Smash.

I could go into this, but a lot of it I have already said before, so I'll just quote myself.

I do see the rationale behind Rosalina's inclusion though. Upon her creation, Rosalina was a very unique character, and she had a radically different role than the other prominent crown-wearing women of the Mario series. She wasn't just yet another archetypical damsel in distress. She was pretty much a mentor-figure and she comes across as someone who is actually... powerful. Like someone who wouldn't just get kidnapped and had to be rescued. If you look at her debut game, a case could be made that she is pretty much a goddess, or at least some sort of deity that oversees the creation of new galaxies. That's something that hasn't really been explored in the Mario series, and bears a lot of potential. So I think it is logical that SSB would be interested in exploring that character, and fleshing out her abilities a bit more.

Essentially, Rosalina is a character who's unique in her home series and thinking up cool powers and abilities for her is fun and interesting. That's most likely why she got in.

 

[memoryman3]

christ not this again

Let this old thread be resurrected thanks to Nintendo Switch speculation. Fun fact, Mario Party 4 Daisy was almost 1:1 with Peach, but now in the HD era, developers simply cannot get away with this.

so they have to give daisy her own features...? like what they've doing since the wii era?

dare I ask, but what is exactly is your goal? daisy's already in a healthy number of spinoffs, so do you want her to appear in every nintendo game known to man

Well, Daisy is not playable in Super Smash Bros yet, and that's my main goal.....

 

[Czario]

There's nothing to question.

Rosalina is a main character since forever ago , and just like many others , her inclusion in games after her debut was more to expand the roster than anything else , beside her being very well recived.

In the case of Smash , there's literally no other main or interesting character that actually matters that was left to be included , it was just natural that Sakurai had Rosalina and Bowser Jr on spot.

What about Daisy and Waluigi? They were main characters of the spin-offs when Rosalina was only a twinkle in Miyamoto's eye. You could say that Rosalina has been in more main Mario games then them but... why not have spin-off representation? :D I admit, I just don't like Rosalina as a character that much, so I'm biased, but so are you and every member of this forum. I guess I wouldn't question it so much if Waluigi was in. And I suppose Daisy... And then you have the problem of way too many Mario characters. *sigh* Sakurai can't please everyone, unfortunately...

I could go into this, but a lot of it I have already said before, so I'll just quote myself.

I do see the rationale behind Rosalina's inclusion though. Upon her creation, Rosalina was a very unique character, and she had a radically different role than the other prominent crown-wearing women of the Mario series. She wasn't just yet another archetypical damsel in distress. She was pretty much a mentor-figure and she comes across as someone who is actually... powerful. Like someone who wouldn't just get kidnapped and had to be rescued. If you look at her debut game, a case could be made that she is pretty much a goddess, or at least some sort of deity that oversees the creation of new galaxies. That's something that hasn't really been explored in the Mario series, and bears a lot of potential. So I think it is logical that SSB would be interested in exploring that character, and fleshing out her abilities a bit more.

Essentially, Rosalina is a character who's unique in her home series and thinking up cool powers and abilities for her is fun and interesting. That's most likely why she got in.

I suppose that makes sense.

 

[SonicMario]

What about Daisy and Waluigi? They were main characters of the spin-offs when Rosalina was only a twinkle in Miyamoto's eye. You could say that Rosalina has been in more main Mario games then them but... why not have spin-off representation? :D I admit, I just don't like Rosalina as a character that much, so I'm biased, but so are you and every member of this forum. I guess I wouldn't question it so much if Waluigi was in. And I suppose Daisy... And then you have the problem of way too many Mario characters. *sigh* Sakurai can't please everyone, unfortunately...

A character representing the spin-offs isn't too much of a bad idea. But just based on history in Smash for the Mario series represenation Spin-Off characters are generally relegated to Stages, Trophies, Assist Trophies, etc. Only if a character gets a pretty significant Spin-Off series of some kind do they get their spots.

Yoshi had the Yoshi's Island games and Yoshi's story. Donkey Kong had the Donkey Kong Country series. And Wario had not just one but two spin-off series with Wario Land and WarioWare.

Meanwhile Daisy's only appearance outside of a sports/party/kart game is Super Mario Land. And unlike Wario's role in Super Mario Land 2 and the Wario Land series that would spin off of it she's not in as huge of a role. (Daisy's simply the damsel-in-distress in SML1, while Wario's the Main antagonist in SML2 and then the main character for all of the Wario Land games. Though keep in mind Smash seems to mainly ignore Wario Land in favor of WarioWare much to the chagrin of Wario Land fans. So if Wario Land gets ignored in Smash, what chances does Daisy have to be promoted for the first Mario Land game?)

And Waluigi has literally ONLY been in sports/party/kart games. Though at least he gets some recognition through Smash as an Assist Trophy. In official Smash games, Waluigi can run around smacking around Nintendo characters while Daisy is relegated to trophies and a color swap for Peach. Though I imagine Waluigi would either have to start getting a game of his own, playable in a mario platformer, and/or get in a Wario game in some way even if he's just someone who provides microgrames in the next WarioWare or something (That way Nintendo could use that as an excuse to make Waluigi a 2nd Wario rep as opposed to competing for a Mario rep spot. But chances are that might not be deemed necessary)

When you're stuck being just in the sports/party/kart/etc. games though you have the stigma of essentially being roster filler as opposed to being essential enough for being playable in Smash. I think it's perfectly ok to like Waluigi and/or Daisy and even hope one day that one or both make it in Smash. But generally there should be a caution on thinking they're guarantees. They both have similar steep hills to climb to get playable in Smash. That none of the other Mario characters currently playable in Smash had (Aside from Dr. Mario, but Dr. Mario is a last minute clone. Not exactly a good example)

If either Daisy or Waluigi ever do make it in though. I have a feeling they'll both be added. One being added breaks any barriers left for the other.

 

[Czario]

[Huge amount of text]

You're right. However, I think they do have a good chance of being added in Smash 5 since there's no other Mario characters left except this guy. Or maybe even the rumored Smash 4 port for the Switch...