General Discussion

[Glowsquid]

the current setup is that the blue toad in 3D World is Teh Toad and that Captain Toad is a totally new characters that's conspicuously identical to Teh Toad. My premise is that both conclusions are false, that the 3d world info should go on the blue toad page and that the captain toad page should be rewritten to reflect it's a persona of teh toad rather than a separate character and blublublublu.

Fucking Toads, man.

i'll post it when I feel like it.

 

[Walkazo]

Feel free to put it off as looooooong as you like.

Please.

(really don't want my weekend to become Toad discussion hell T.T )

 

[Glowsquid]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6z6A5TP7uA

 

[Walkazo]

Gee. Thanks.

 

[Mario4Ever]

(really don't want my weekend to become Toad discussion hell T.T )

Me neither. There's only so long bumpy, dry skin and stubby legs can be brought up before everyone is bored.

 

[Ray Trace]

And thus the muddling gets even more muddled and foggy

sometimes I just wish Nintendo or some source would outright tell us "YEAH THAT BLUE TOAD IS BLUE TOAD" and whatever crap

 

[Glowsquid]

and now I'm really glad I widthrew this brain tumour-induced proposal in time;

By the way, Captain Toad is actually not the same Toad as the Toad who’s playable in games like Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario’s Woods,

 

[Mario4Ever]

I'm glad he mentioned that, since he certainly didn't have to.

 

[Ray Trace]

Should we make articles on every dang freaking enemy combination in Mario Maker or what?

I find it a bit like making articles on Epic versions of every Maxis creature in Spore because you can make them epics in Spore: Galactic Adventures when obviously, it's a feature of the creator intended to give users more freedom when it comes to designing levels and crap instead of being distinct entities the same manner Paratroopas and Paragoombas are treated.

I strongly think the feature itself should solely be mentioned in Mario Maker without having us resort to making articles of a huge amount of alterations and combinations you can create with enemies in the game. After all, the way enemies are treated are like a template, a base that you can add stuff to. You can mention the ability to create Paratroopas and existing enemies and stuff into this article, but we don't need to create articles about enemies that were modified as a result of a custom-making engine specifically designed to enhance and express a user's creativity.

 

[Mario4Ever]

I agree. We can mention the options exist, but beyond that, we run the risk of creating an article for everything anyone creates.

 

[Walkazo]

and now I'm really glad I widthrew this brain tumour-induced proposal in time;

By the way, Captain Toad is actually not the same Toad as the Toad who’s playable in games like Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario’s Woods,

This makes me happy - maybe he got wind of the Internet turmoil over the Toad stuff and decided to throw us a bone with some concrete info (which was still topical as the interview was about NES REMIX and its sequel, which features SMB2 and WWoods). Full interview's here, btw: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHhqLHlohg

 

[Duskull]

Should we make articles on every dang freaking enemy combination in Mario Maker or what?

I find it a bit like making articles on Epic versions of every Maxis creature in Spore because you can make them epics in Spore: Galactic Adventures when obviously, it's a feature of the creator intended to give users more freedom when it comes to designing levels and crap instead of being distinct entities the same manner Paratroopas and Paragoombas are treated.

I strongly think the feature itself should solely be mentioned in Mario Maker without having us resort to making articles of a huge amount of alterations and combinations you can create with enemies in the game. After all, the way enemies are treated are like a template, a base that you can add stuff to. You can mention the ability to create Paratroopas and existing enemies and stuff into this article, but we don't need to create articles about enemies that were modified as a result of a custom-making engine specifically designed to enhance and express a user's creativity.

In all honesty, I think we should. Yes, the genre may be different but just because of that should affect whether we create these articles, especially since they do function differently from the original enemy. Because I'm fairly certain that the majority of the names will be conjectural enemies like Huge blah blah Tower and Para blah blah Tower I think could be placed into a respective article, for example Huge Goomba Tower, just being part of the Goomba Tower article.

 

[Glowsquid]

The deal is that Mario Maker feature modifiers you can apply to most, if not all, enemies (ie: winged, stacked, big etc). The "new" enemies are not actually specific creations, but rather the result of using features of the editor. Making separate pages for them is ridiculous.

 

[Mario4Ever]

It'd be like making an article for every user-created microgame in WarioWare: D.I.Y.

 

[Glowsquid]

A more fitting comparison would be creating articles based on the fact you can change the pallete on the pre-build assets of D.I.Y.

 

[SiFi]

I'm thinking maybe we could have a page called "Winged (or whatever gimmick) enemy (Mario Maker)" and have it briefly describe the gimmick's general effect, and then have sections for each enemy that say "main article: enemy" and mention anything unique about applying the gimmick to that enemy if there's something like that to be mentioned.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Since you can change the language in Smash Bros. 3DS, some trophy descriptions also come in other languages. Is it worth noting... or...?

I've seen some trophy descriptions in French, and one trophy, the Pit Eggplant ones, have a tirade of puns in English, but the French version makes another set of puns. Namely, "pois" (peas) instead of "pas", "navet" (turnip), and maybe "salsifis"? Also mentions a banana, but I don't know what it's a pun on.

Qu'y a-t-il de pire que d'être transformé en aubergine? Rien. N'écoutez pois les ignorants qui disent le contraire. C'est comme s'ils navet jamais tenté le'expérience. Il faut ê raifort pour s'en remettre, croyez-moi! Salsifis maintenant! Et quoi qu'on endive, c'est une expérience peu banane! (Avouez que vous avez souri.)

and now I'm really glad I widthrew this brain tumour-induced proposal in time;

By the way, Captain Toad is actually not the same Toad as the Toad who’s playable in games like Super Mario Bros. 2 and Wario’s Woods,

This makes me happy - maybe he got wind of the Internet turmoil over the Toad stuff and decided to throw us a bone with some concrete info (which was still topical as the interview was about NES REMIX and its sequel, which features SMB2 and WWoods). Full interview's here, btw: https://miiverse.nintendo.net/posts/AYMHAAACAAADVHhqLHlohg

THANK YOU HAYASHIDA FOR SATISFYING MY INNER MARIO NERD.

 

[Glowsquid]

I'm thinking maybe we could have a page called "Winged (or whatever gimmick) enemy (Mario Maker)" and have it briefly describe the gimmick's general effect, and then have sections for each enemy that say "main article: enemy" and mention anything unique about applying the gimmick to that enemy if there's something like that to be mentioned.

That's already better idea, though really, it's best to wait until we have complete information about Mario Maker's editor before deciding how to organise the content.

Since you can change the language in Smash Bros. 3DS, some trophy descriptions also come in other languages. Is it worth noting... or...?

What do you mean by "noting"? If you mean writing them down, that's rather counter-productive for an english language wiki.

and maybe "salsifis"? Also mentions a banana, but I don't know what it's a pun on.

Salsifis is one for "ça suffit" ("That's enough") and banane is one for "banal" (mudane, ordinary).

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Okay... I thought it was interesting that they decided to use their own set of puns rather than directly translate. I thought maybe we can squeeze a little side note, but again, I can't imagine.

Anyway, any point in Genre article? Glowsquid has mentioned its possible potential, but I don't quite see it, so I don't 100% agree that it should stay.

 

[Walkazo]

Puns don't tend to translate well, so it's kinda necessary to rewrite them if you want to maintain the humourous tone or whatever.

The genre page is kinda like an in-depth glossary page, which doesn't seem like a bad thing. It could be better, but I don't feel a pressing need to delete it.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

Any way to rewrite the page so people don't question the use for it in the future?

 

[Time Turner]

Since I love to stretch myself thin, I've been going through the enemies listed in the Yoshi's Island guide, and there are quite a few discrepancies between the book and the wiki (mostly the YI template). Since I have zero knowledge about the game, I'll list the problems here and hopefully someone can sort this out. I'm going to preface this with the fact that the actual guide and the collection of enemies at the end often counter one-another (like Bandits, Blaargs, and [thing] not being listed at all), which is where some of my concerns come from.

Baseball Boy - Baseball Boy isn't actually listed, since there isn't a definitive "Baseball Boy". It seems similar to Koopa (species), only with less of a foot to stand on. I'd consider the article pointless, but the guide consistently refers to both Green Gloves (Green Glove) and Sluggers (Slugger) as Baseball Boys, all the time. I'm not sure what to think of it. Considering the official name and whatnot, the article is pretty harmless.

Blue Boo - This is an enemy that apparently appears in Bigger Boo's Fort, and the text corroborates this, but outside of the guide, silence. They're visually identical to Boo Balloons (Boo Balloons) (though since they appear in a dark room, the balloon cord isn't visible), though I'm not entirely sure on matching abilities. They're completely identical to the balloons, so all that's really needed is a marked name.

Chomp - According to the wiki, "Incoming Chomp" is another name for these guys (and it's indeed in the guide), but they seemingly act a lot more differently than other Chomps. I'm bringing it up here because, again, I don't know much about SMW@.

Chomp Shark - The "guide" part of the guide consistently calls it a Chomp Shark, but the list calls it a Shark Chomp. It's a minor distinction, but which one takes priority? Chomp Shark is the one that appears more, so it'll stick.

Green Toady - If you haven't heard of this enemy, that's because it's currently resting in Solo Toady's article. Both Greenie and Solo-ie are individualized, though appearance-wise, they're palette swaps. I can't find any videos of the Green one in action, but the article seems to show that there have different abilities, but it's seemingly minute.

Hefty Goonie - I want to verify if "Very Goonie", which is what the article is called, is solely derived from Moltz the Very Goonie. If so, since the species otherwise doesn't seem to ever be called "Very Goonie", Moltz aside, the article would default to Hefty, no? In fact, it would.

Hopping Tap-Tap - There's zero mention of any sort of jumping Tap-Taps on the wiki, but they're clearly shown separately. I have no idea if there are actual differences between them and regular Tap-Taps besides the jumping, though, and whether that'd be enough to justify separate articles.

Kamek's Toadies - Oddly enough, there's a consistent mention of the Toadies that swarm to grab Baby Mario as "Kamek's Toadies". Again, lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if that's worthy of distinction of if it should just be mentioned offhandedly.

Large Milde - As far as I can tell, the guide does not mention Large Mildes at all, or if it does, it at least doesn't bother to list it. From a video, they seem to just be subdivisions of Marching Milde, though again, lack of knowledge.

Mace Penguin - All I have to work with here is a low-res picture, but the Mace Penguin really doesn't seem like the same enemy as Spike. Considering they're referred to as "Penguins" and appear in winter levels (something completely unrelated to Spikes), I really wouldn't doubt it.

Pokey - The only appearance of this Pokey (not the stacked yellow one) is on Needlenose, since they appear to work in tandem like Ptooies (Ptooie). I'm not entirely sure if there's actually enough for an individual article.

Rip Van Fish - Do these guys actually appear in this game? They're listed as having done so, but the guide doesn't make mention of it at all. Perhaps they were just confused with Piscatory Petes (Piscatory Pete)?

Slime - Besides the fact that they're not listed, I'm almost certain that the Slimes the article is referring to is actually just Salvo the Slime, simply reused in a later level. They appear to be identical, other than the disguise thing. On the other hand, the guide proper refers to them as both Salvo the Slime and a generic "slime" at the same time, so I can't even tell.

Submarine Nep-Enut - Once again, here's an enemy that's individually listed but gets zero recognition. I have absolutely no idea what the differences are, or even if there are any differences, between it and a regular Nep-Enut, nor do I have a clue where they appear.

So... anyone happen to be a huge Yoshi's Island aficionado?

 

[Toa 95]

I'm currently playing Yoshi's Island, though I don't remember too much of the early game, but I'll help out the best I can; otherwise I can just go back and replay some levels and see what I can find.

Baseball Boy - Baseball Boy isn't actually listed, since there isn't a definitive "Baseball Boy". It seems similar to Koopa (species), only with less of a foot to stand on. I'd consider the article pointless, but the guide consistently refers to both Green Gloves (Green Glove) and Sluggers (Slugger) as Baseball Boys, all the time. I'm not sure what to think of it.

If it's used as a proper name in the guide then I don't see a reason to not keep it; otherwise it's just part of a level name used to describe the two main enemies that show up.

Blue Boo - This is an enemy that apparently appears in Bigger Boo's Fort, and the text corroborates this, but outside of the guide, silence. They're visually identical to Boo Balloons (Boo Balloons) (though since they appear in a dark room, the balloon cord isn't visible), though I'm not entirely sure on matching abilities.

I'd have to replay the levels to see if there's a difference.

EDIT: They literally are Boo Balloons with a different name; identical behavior, same method of defeating them, and since they appear in rooms with dotted-line coins that can only appear when a switch is pressed I can only presume they release the same thing when they're defeated.

Chomp - According to the wiki, "Incoming Chomp" is another name for these guys (and it's indeed in the guide), but they seemingly act a lot more differently than other Chomps. I'm bringing it up here because, again, I don't know much about SMW@.

They leap up from the background and make a crater in the ground, so yeah, they do behave differently than your typical Chomp in later games, but otherwise they're just Chomps. But yeah, different behavior from the norm, unique name (as given in the guide), I don't see why they can't have a separate article.

Chomp Shark - The "guide" part of the guide consistently calls it a Chomp Shark, but the list calls it a Shark Chomp. It's a minor distinction, but which one takes priority?

They aren't named in-game from what I can tell (haven't actually beaten the entire game yet but I am close), but it should be fine as-is unless a name shows up in a later game, just list both names.

Green Toady - If you haven't heard of this enemy, that's because it's currently resting in Solo Toady's article. Both Greenie and Solo-ie are individualized, though appearance-wise, they're palette swaps. I can't find any videos of the Green one in action, but the article seems to show that there have different abilities, but it's seemingly minute.

Green Toadies fly after you and steal Baby Mario off your back, whereas Solo Toadies occasionally show up and play keep away with Baby Mario if he's knocked off your back. They behave practically the same otherwise (keeping Baby Mario away from you).

Hefty Goonie - I want to verify if "Very Goonie", which is what the article is called, is solely derived from Moltz the Very Goonie. If so, since the species otherwise doesn't seem to ever be called "Very Goonie", Moltz aside, the article would default to Hefty, no?

Haven't played any other Yoshi's Island games, so I can't tell you that, but it seems that way.

Hopping Tap-Tap - There's zero mention of any sort of jumping Tap-Taps on the wiki, but they're clearly shown separately. I have no idea if there are actual differences between them and regular Tap-Taps besides the jumping, though, and whether that'd be enough to justify separate articles.

The ones labeled as just Tap-Taps walk across the ground, while Hopping Tap-Taps hop in place.

Kamek's Toadies - Oddly enough, there's a consistent mention of the Toadies that swarm to grab Baby Mario as "Kamek's Toadies". Again, lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if that's worthy of distinction of if it should just be mentioned offhandedly.

I'd have to check the early levels to see if the name is mentioned in a message box or something.

EDIT: Watching a part of a playthrough, the game refers to "Kamek's toadies" at the beginning of the very first "level", when a message box pops up before you start to tell you about the Countdown Timer.

Large Milde - As far as I can tell, the guide does not mention Large Mildes at all, or if it does, it at least doesn't bother to list it. From a video, they seem to just be subdivisions of Marching Milde, though again, lack of knowledge.

They also appear individually in one of the later fortresses/castles (according to the wiki it's Hookbill the Koopa's Castle; they're in a bonus room where they must be defeated to earn a Red Coin).

Mace Penguin - All I have to work with here is a low-res picture, but the Mace Penguin really doesn't seem like the same enemy as Spike. Considering they're referred to as "Penguins" and appear in winter levels (something completely unrelated to Spikes), I really wouldn't doubt it.

The guide may give them a different name, but they do actually behave similarly to Spikes and the appearance compared to Spike's SMB3 sprite isn't that far apart.

Pokey - The only appearance of this Pokey (not the stacked yellow one) is on Needlenose, since they appear to work in tandem like Ptooies (Ptooie). I'm not entirely sure if there's actually enough for an individual article.

They apparently only share a name; otherwise they have a completely different appearance and behavior...

Rip Van Fish - Do these guys actually appear in this game? They're listed as having done so, but the guide doesn't make mention of it at all. Perhaps they were just confused with Piscatory Petes (Piscatory Pete)?

Due to similar appearances that might be the case.

Slime - Besides the fact that they're not listed, I'm almost certain that the Slimes the article is referring to is actually just Salvo the Slime, simply reused in a later level. They appear to be identical, other than the disguise thing. On the other hand, the guide proper refers to them as both Salvo the Slime and a generic "slime" at the same time, so I can't even tell.

I really don't know what to do regarding this...

Submarine Nep-Enut - Once again, here's an enemy that's individually listed but gets zero recognition. I have absolutely no idea what the differences are, or even if there are any differences, between it and a regular Nep-Enut, nor do I have a clue where they appear.

I believe the Submarine Nep-Enut appears in a cave area in one of the earlier levels; after going down a pipe you have to get past it to get to some Red Coins, then pass by it again to get out back the way you came in.

 

[Time Turner]

For convenience, I should probably post the guide pages I keep referencing... Page 126 (Media:SMW2 Guide 126.jpg), Page 127 (Media:SMW2 Guide 127.jpg), and Page 128 (Media:SMW2 Guide 128.jpg).

 

[Walkazo]

Responding to some of them (not all, at least, not right now):

Baseball Boy - Baseball Boy isn't actually listed, since there isn't a definitive "Baseball Boy". It seems similar to Koopa (species), only with less of a foot to stand on. I'd consider the article pointless, but the guide consistently refers to both Green Gloves (Green Glove) and Sluggers (Slugger) as Baseball Boys, all the time. I'm not sure what to think of it.

If it's used as a proper name in the guide then I don't see a reason to not keep it; otherwise it's just part of a level name used to describe the two main enemies that show up.

Yeah, if it's a proper name, might as well keep the page.

Blue Boo - This is an enemy that apparently appears in Bigger Boo's Fort, and the text corroborates this, but outside of the guide, silence. They're visually identical to Boo Balloons (Boo Balloons) (though since they appear in a dark room, the balloon cord isn't visible), though I'm not entirely sure on matching abilities.

EDIT: They literally are Boo Balloons with a different name; identical behavior, same method of defeating them, and since they appear in rooms with dotted-line coins that can only appear when a switch is pressed I can only presume they release the same thing when they're defeated.

And Boo Balloons are already blue too, right? Might as well leave it with one page, in that case.

Chomp - According to the wiki, "Incoming Chomp" is another name for these guys (and it's indeed in the guide), but they seemingly act a lot more differently than other Chomps. I'm bringing it up here because, again, I don't know much about SMW@.

They leap up from the background and make a crater in the ground, so yeah, they do behave differently than your typical Chomp in later games, but otherwise they're just Chomps. But yeah, different behavior from the norm, unique name (as given in the guide), I don't see why they can't have a separate article.

Splitting out Incoming Chomp from the Chomp page make sense - it's even been discussed already a couple months back (Talk:Chomp#Chomp_.26_Chain_Chomp).

Chomp Shark - The "guide" part of the guide consistently calls it a Chomp Shark, but the list calls it a Shark Chomp. It's a minor distinction, but which one takes priority?

They aren't named in-game from what I can tell (haven't actually beaten the entire game yet but I am close), but it should be fine as-is unless a name shows up in a later game, just list both names.

Yeah, add the second name to the page and as a redirect, but leave the article where it is: no sense changing things when we don't have to.

Green Toady - If you haven't heard of this enemy, that's because it's currently resting in Solo Toady's article. Both Greenie and Solo-ie are individualized, though appearance-wise, they're palette swaps. I can't find any videos of the Green one in action, but the article seems to show that there have different abilities, but it's seemingly minute.

Green Toadies fly after you and steal Baby Mario off your back, whereas Solo Toadies occasionally show up and play keep away with Baby Mario if he's knocked off your back. They behave practically the same otherwise (keeping Baby Mario away from you).

Personally, I've always waned to see the green ones split based on their colour and behavioural differences, and now that we have an official thing calling them "Green Toadies", I think we should jump on it.

Hefty Goonie - I want to verify if "Very Goonie", which is what the article is called, is solely derived from Moltz the Very Goonie. If so, since the species otherwise doesn't seem to ever be called "Very Goonie", Moltz aside, the article would default to Hefty, no?

I'd say just leave it as "Hefty Goonie" and don't worry about it unless more contrary information arises.

Hopping Tap-Tap - There's zero mention of any sort of jumping Tap-Taps on the wiki, but they're clearly shown separately. I have no idea if there are actual differences between them and regular Tap-Taps besides the jumping, though, and whether that'd be enough to justify separate articles.

The ones labeled as just Tap-Taps walk across the ground, while Hopping Tap-Taps hop in place.

Isn't there also a slight colour difference?

Kamek's Toadies - Oddly enough, there's a consistent mention of the Toadies that swarm to grab Baby Mario as "Kamek's Toadies". Again, lack of knowledge prevents me from knowing if that's worthy of distinction of if it should just be mentioned offhandedly.

I'd have to check the early levels to see if the name is mentioned in a message box or something.

EDIT: Watching a part of a playthrough, the game refers to "Kamek's toadies" at the beginning of the very first "level", when a message box pops up before you start to tell you about the Countdown Timer.

The manual also calls them "Kamek's toadies" and "toadies" - lowercase, not proper nouns.