Toad, a worthy candidate for SSB4 (reasons and moveset provided).

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Well, I decided to create this topic to help those to understand why Toad has potential to becoming a playable character in SSB4. It seems that in many fan created rosters, Toad is usually excluded out and is beaten by many characters including Bowser Jr., Paper Mario, and to a further extent Waluigi and Daisy. While I am not saying that those characters are bad as newcomers, I personally believe that it is wrong to include them in Smash before Toad. Here is my reasoning for Toad's inclusion in Smash...


Reasoning:

i) Now, one of the main reasons that Toad has supposedly been shifted aside is because people say that he has no moveset potential. Some even go further to saying that the Toads cannot even fight. This is actually very false as Toad may be one of the very few unique characters left in the Mario series to have a potential unique moveset.

First off, Toad has had two mainstream playable roles as of the moment: Super Mario Bros. 2 and New Super Mario Bros. Wii. Toad's statistics can come right from SMB 2 as a speedy, but physically strong character. Additionally, he can also have the weak jumps he had from SMB 2 and be a lightweight as in the Mario Kart series. A small, quick, but physically strong character is not something we have yet in Smash. Additionally, Toad can also use the power-ups from NSMB Wii (such as the propeller power-up) to diversify his moveset. Not to mention that Toad also had his own game: Wario's Woods where he can pull moves from (bombs and running up walls). Let's not forget the spin-off games and the fact that Smash can create movesets for any character (Look at ROB, Zelda, and Captain Falcon). Toad can even have his unique properties such as emitting spores and using mushrooms to attack (think of an expanded Sports Mix).

If you want to see the moveset and essay for his inclusion, check this link. Give thanks to the dedicated users who made it on this forum if you liked it.

:)toad:) http://www.smashboards.com/showpost.php?p=12843555&postcount=2 ( :toad:)


ii) Does Toad still stand a chance? Well, yes he does. To this day, Toad is still a very recognizable and popular Mario character. He still frequently appears as a main playable character (or in a few rare cases a host) in almost all the Mario spin-off games. The Toads are also one of the few, important recurring characters that still appear in the Mainstream Super Mario Bros. games (others include Mario, Luigi, Peach, Bowser, Yoshi, and as of lately Bowser Jr.).

Another common arguement is that Toad is part of Peach's moveset. However, this is actually not a problem at all as it shows that Nintendo actually did notice Toad by making him his own model in the game. However, can he get out of this situation? Yes, he can. Special moves have been changed in every Smash game and one prime example is Mario getting the FLUDD move as his down B. Why not change Peach's standard special to her vibe powers or Perry the Parasol from Super Princess Peach? Even disregarding this game, a Toad can still be part of her moveset as his race is a generic one. Having two Toads in the game would not be out of place. Even giving her Toadsworth as her B move would work as he is now her loyal steward rather than Toad (imagine Toadsworth striking back with his cane as a counter move to protect Peach!).

iii) Toad is generic? Yes, he is and many use this as an argument saying that this hurts his chances of being playable. However, this is not a problem as the door for generic characters has been open since the first Smash game. Look at Yoshi, the Pokemon, Mr. G & W, Kirby, and even ROB. All of these characters are generic, yet they're still in. The true main point is whether or not people would want to play as one of these characters even if they're part of a generic race. Toad has been requested for a long time, so why not make him playable for his fans now? With two Toads being playable in NSMB Wii, this makes Toad a more notable rep than ever before as now both he himself and his species have had fighting experience.


iv) Toad's competitors. Toad is definitely not a shoe-in as he still has rivalry for the newcomer spot in SBB4. Both Waluigi and Daisy are important; however, they are mostly known for being in the spin-offs only (excluding Daisy's small role in SML). Both have potential, but they are better off repping the Mario spin-off series, and at the moment I feel that Toad has priority over the both of them since he appears outside of the spin-off games. Paper Mario's support came suddenly; however, while the character's moveset may be very unique, this doesn't help him other than the fact that he is still Mario...in a different dimension. We already have Mario, and there is still a small chance that PM might become another Toon Link. Finally, we arrive at Bowser Jr.. Jr. has a good chance; however, I feel that he missed his biggest option back in Brawl (SMS and NSMB DS were his biggest game roles). Since these 2 games, Jr. has become less important and has become more of a recurring mini-boss. Toad's role has actually grew considerably since NSMB Wii and even in Super Mario Galaxy (the Toad Brigade were important characters). Either way, both have a chance; however, we must not forget about the past. Toad was one of the classic characters who have helped shaped up the series to what it is now since the very beginning.

iv) Final verdict. Toad has a good chance of making it in. I made this thread to help those understand why there are people supporting Toad's inclusion. Many unfortunately bash him due to his infamous role from "Super Mario Bros."; however, if you think outside of this game, Toad has been actually important and helpful. My hopes are that both Toad and Jr. would make it in to make both the old and new Mario fans happy. Additionally, Paper Mario as a newcomer for HIS OWN series would make a worthy addition. We lost one Mario rep from Melee to Brawl, so why not have 6 Mario characters and possibly Paper Mario repping the Mario RPG/Paper Mario series. However, I feel that Toad should be the first of those characters to be made playable as he is one of the original characters in the series, one of the original playable characters in the series, and arguably one of the more recognizable and important characters from the series as well. Additionally, Toad is one of the few characters who makes an appearance in almost all types of the Mario series (mainstream, spin-offs, Paper Mario/RPG, Mario vs DK etc). Only Mario, Luigi, Bowser, and Peach share this title. Even Yoshi does not appear in all types of the Mario series; hence, he is repping his own series. This ultimately makes Toad a rep who would not only effectively rep the Super Mario Bros. series, but as well as the entire Mario series as a whole.


Thank you for reading all this and please post your comments.
If you have any questions, feel free to ask me on this thread. :) :toad:
 

GutsehMan

Ladies and gentlemen, my name is Paul Heyman.
The question that eludes me with Toad (and always has) is: What kind of role would he have in the story mode? (Assuming there is one)
 

SonicMario

Star Spirit
YES YES YES I love SSB threads like this, reminds me of my first days on the internet at Smashboards

Very nice, It might actually be nice to have Toad in the next game. Offers another lightweight fighter. I think the only concern in at least the fandom is people who view the Toad as a Scrappy like Pichu was. Albeit Pichu is far worse in that department. If we get a new Mario character it might be 50/50 between Toad and Bowser Jr. Though if Junior is Toad's only competition we should hope that Toad's longtime part of the series gives him the edge for the thumps up. Toad getting his way out of Peach's Pockets and replacing that move with Toadsworth is probably the best way to counter the "He's Peach's B move"
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Thanks for the reviews guys! :D And I agree with you Northern Verve, both Toad and Jr. both have good chances of making it into the next Smash. However, Toad's seniority to the series may be the key to helping him (as well as his new recent and upcoming roles). Also about the Pichu thing. I doubt Toad will be the joke character. He has shown to have power (unlike the baby pokemon) and is also speedy with great possibilities for moves. I personally see him as an effective hit and run type of character (like Pichu), but he does not hurt himself so there is no need to worry that Toad will be similar to Pichu.

Also GutsehMan, I think Toad is a pretty flexible character for the story mode. Obviously, he would be alongside Princess Peach during the earlier scenes, but perhaps they can both split up after Peach has been kidnapped as this mirrors Toad's role in the games. Peach is kidnapped, while Toad helps or accompanies the rest of the heroes. Perhaps he too can be kidnapped and saved later as well. He is known for being cowardly, yet very loyal so he can pretty much be similar to Luigi.
 

Dr. Javelin

Nathan Latsk
I literally spent 20 minutes typing up a counter-response to your arguments and then it logged me out and deleted it all.

Basically:

i) Toad is definitely shifted aside, and all his "unique roles" from Super Mario Bros 2 have been given to Peach, like turnip throwing.
ii)Toad doesn't stand a chance because of the presence of more recognizable characters such as Waluigi and Daisy that are also present in every spin-off.
iii)Toad is certainly generic, much more so than the characters you have listed.
iv)Toad's competitors outclass him in many ways, Waluigi has more personality, Paper Mario is more unique, Bowser Jr. is more powerful and combat-ready. Also you left out a major fanbase who are pulling for Geno, but it's very unlikely that he'll make it in.
v)I haven't seen any support for Toad in SSB until I saw this post, so the "fans" you speak of must be strangely silent or few and far between.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
i) Toad is definitely shifted aside, and all his "unique roles" from Super Mario Bros 2 have been given to Peach, like turnip throwing.
ii)Toad doesn't stand a chance because of the presence of more recognizable characters such as Waluigi and Daisy that are also present in every spin-off.
iii)Toad is certainly generic, much more so than the characters you have listed.
iv)Toad's competitors outclass him in many ways, Waluigi has more personality, Paper Mario is more unique, Bowser Jr. is more powerful and combat-ready. Also you left out a major fanbase who are pulling for Geno, but it's very unlikely that he'll make it in.
v)I haven't seen any support for Toad in SSB until I saw this post, so the "fans" you speak of must be strangely silent or few and far between.
i) Yeah, but Toad still has his unique statistics from Mario 2. Speed, strength, and poor jumps. Additionally, Toad could still use moves from this game even though Peach has some of them. Giant turnips from Super Mario Advance? Super Charged Jump? There is still more possibilities. Additionally, Toad does not even need SMB 2 for a unique moveset. NSMB Wii is there, and it does not seem like Mario or Luigi will be getting moves from there since the two already have established movesets in the Smash series. Not to mention, many other games provide Toad with more options. Just because Peach has turnips, this does not make her the only character of only having SMB 2 moves. Peach needed this move in order to give homage to the only Super Mario Bros. game she was playable in.

ii) Daisy and Waluigi are significant in the spin-offs, but to the Mario series as a whole? Not so much. Additionally, these two are put in the same level of importance as the other major Mario characters in the spin-offs (including Toad). The Mario series should have representation from the Super Mario Bros. games; however, these two have yet to make an appearance in one of these games (except Daisy's role in SML). If anything, they should get in as Mario spin-off reps, not Mario series ones. Toad has been in almost all of the mainstream games as well as the spin-offs. Toad even has his own game! This allows him to be just as popular or even more popular than these two. I apologize to Daisy and Waluigi fans, but this what I conceive of the Mario series reps.

Also check out this link. It is a poll showing Japan's favourite VIDEO GAME characters. Toad was number 8 on it and this is a poll for all video game characters (not Mario ones). This shows that he is pretty popular and recognizable in Japan (the country with the main say for the roster in Smash 4).
http://kotaku.com/5035884/and-japans-favorite-video-game-characters-are
Toad also has his own prize pack from Club Nintendo. He must be pretty significant to receive his own titled product from an official Nintendo source.

iii) I stated my reason for the "genericness", yet you don't mention any reasons for why Toad is generic. Additionally, you simply say that Toad is more generic when there has never been exact characters for G & W, the Pokemon (Ash's or Red's Pikachu?) and even ROB. Toad has existed as a character, and still does. Also, take a look at the Brawl and Melee Yoshi trophies. Both listing of Yoshi's trophies interestingly never mentions the character known as Yoshi. It only mentions his species. However, for both of Toad's trophies, Toad the character is the main focus of the description. This makes sense as Yoshi is representing the generic Yoshis from the Yoshi series games. THE Yoshi does not exist in Yoshi's Island or Yoshi's Story; only in the ending of Yoshi's Island DS. We only have green Yoshis. In conclusion, Yoshi is just as generic as Toad is. Regardless, both of these characters stand in as representatives for their species. That is why THE Yoshi is repping his species, similarly to how Toad would rep his species if he got in.
iv) Waluigi...more personality? Toad has personality too if you played the games. He is cowardly, loyal, impatient, brave when the need calls for it, and even lazy. Waluigi may be more enthusiastic , but I fail to see how Toad does not have personality. Also must I ask if whether this matters when Mario has almost zero personality (sorry Mario fans, just an example). As for Paper mario's case, I mentioned his problems and I also mentioned Toad's moveset if you did read my post properly. Also Toad has power too (just like Jr.). Play SMB 2? Or better yet a recent game like NSMB Wii? Toads can fight. Jr. never fought physically except in NSMB DS (somewhat). He always fought in some kind of mech or robot. Not much uniqueness there either... Also I have stated my reasons for why Toad is reasonable for Smash, yet you never really adressed them and just went in the other direction...

As for Geno, I am quite aware of him. His fanbase is very vocal that is for sure, but he really has an almost zero percent chance. It seems like his fans have realized this (at least a majority) as he never even received a cameo (due to Square owning his rights). How can one compare Geno to other important Mario characters like the aforementioned ones. If Geno was so important, why doesn't he exist now? Even the newer fans of Mario would not know who he is unless they played that ONE game.

v) Actually, there is a strong Toad following since this game was announced. Check a variety of forums and even the Toad alliance on the Smash boards forums. He's considered to being one of the main three newcomers along with Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario. It's just that he is unfortunately bashed down due to incorrect reasoning such as him being Peach's B move or that he is generic. However, many do not realize that these small arguments can easily be countered back. This is why I made this thread, to help those understand why were are supporting Toad's inclusion in the game.
 

UltimatePetey

Go! Magnezone!
After reading what you said, this makes me want to have Toad in the game. However, I'm very sure there will be a story like the Subspace Emissary. And if that's true, what role will Toad have in the story?

Anyway, good job writing.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Thanks Dr. Mario! I still believe Toad would be that kind of "back up" character who may seem minor and unimportant in the beginning, but in the end he would become one of the true heroes and stand up for himself (thinking of Ness, Luigi, and even King Dedede in the original SSE). I suspect him to be associated with Peach in the beginning, but then get shafted out in the middle as a minor character after her kidnapping (I believe she would still get kidnapped) until the near end where he becomes much more important.
 

UltimatePetey

Go! Magnezone!
Propeller Toad said:
Thanks Dr. Mario! I still believe Toad would be that kind of "back up" character who may seem minor and unimportant in the beginning, but in the end he would become one of the true heroes and stand up for himself (thinking of Ness, Luigi, and even King Dedede in the original SSE). I suspect him to be associated with Peach in the beginning, but then get shafted out in the middle as a minor character after her kidnapping (I believe she would still get kidnapped) until the near end where he becomes much more important.
Good point.

You man, would be a great Nintendo worker.
 

Dr. Javelin

Nathan Latsk
First off, I have to say that all the sections I didn't go in-detail on, I already did but was too frustrated to type it up again after the forum logged me out.



Propeller Toad said:
i) Yeah, but Toad still has his unique statistics from Mario 2. Speed, strength, and poor jumps. Additionally, Toad could still use moves from this game even though Peach has some of them. Giant turnips from Super Mario Advance? Super Charged Jump? There is still more possibilities. Additionally, Toad does not even need SMB 2 for a unique moveset. NSMB Wii is there, and it does not seem like Mario or Luigi will be getting moves from there since the two already have established movesets in the Smash series. Not to mention, many other games provide Toad with more options. Just because Peach has turnips, this does not make her the only character of only having SMB 2 moves. Peach needed this move in order to give homage to the only Super Mario Bros. game she was playable in.
Speed and strength in a platformer genre don't translate well into a fighting genre. There is no need for turnips because, like I said, Peach already represents that game and there is no evidence Nintendo is eager to reference SMB2. Toad does nothing unique in NSBMW, he's just a clone of Mario and Luigi.

Propeller Toad said:
ii) Daisy and Waluigi are significant in the spin-offs, but to the Mario series as a whole? Not so much. Additionally, these two are put in the same level of importance as the other Mario characters in the spin-off (including Toad). The Mario series should have representation from the Super Mario Bros. games; however, these two have yet to make an appearance in one of these games (except Daisy's role in SML). If anything, they should get in as Mario spin-off reps, not Mario series ones. Toad has been in all of the mainstream games as well as the spin-offs. This allows him to be just as popular or even more popular than these two. I apologize to Daisy and Waluigi fans, but this what I conceive of the Mario series reps.
Waluigi is already closer to being playable than Toad, as he appeared as an Assist Trophy in Brawl. He also has the same level of popularity as Toad, and on these forums, I believe he has more. Check the Mario awards, I'm not sure who came out on top.

Propeller Toad said:
iii) I stated my reason for the "genericness", yet you don't mention any reasons for why Toad is generic. Additionally, you simply say that Toad is more generic when there has never been exact characters for G & W and even ROB. Toad has existed as a character, and still does. Also, take a look at the Brawl and Melee Yoshi trophies. Both listing of Yoshi's trophies interestingly never mentions the character known as Yoshi. It only mentions his species. However, for both of Toad's trophies, Toad the character is the main focus of the description. This makes sense as Yoshi is representing the generic Yoshis from the Yoshi series games. THE Yoshi does not exist in Yoshi's Island or Yoshi's Story; only in the ending of Yoshi's Island DS. We only have green Yoshis. In conclusion, Yoshi is just as generic as Toad is. Regardless, both of these characters stand in as representatives for their species. That is why THE Yoshi is repping his species, similarly to how Toad would rep his species if he got in.
Yoshi is much more comlpex that Toad is; he has the long tongue and the egg-making ability. He also has his own series, the Yoshi's Island series, something Toad cannot even compare to. And that Yoshi is not necessarily representing his species, he could just as easily be the Green Yoshi that pops up in plenty of games.
Propeller Toad said:
iv) Waluigi...more personality? Toad has personality too if you played the games. He is cowardly, loyal, impatient, brave when the need calls for it, and even lazy. Waluigi may be more enthusiastic , but I fail to see how Toad does not have personality. Also must I ask if whether this matters when Mario has almost zero personality (sorry Mario fans, just an example). As for Paper mario's case, I mentioned his problems and I also mentioned Toad's moveset if you did read my post properly. Also Toad has power too (just like Jr.). Play SMB 2? Or better yet a recent game like NSMB Wii? Toads can fight. Jr. never fought physically except in NSMB DS (somewhat). He always fight in some kind of mech or robot. Not much uniqueness there either... Also I have stated my reasons for why Toad is reasonable for Smash, yet you never really adressed them and just went in the other direction...
Your description of Toad's personality: cowardly, loyal, impatient, brave, and lazy. I could say the same about Goombas.
Toad's moveset: I saw nothing that made him stand out from the crowd. Paper Mario would have plenty of moves such as the Flip ability, the Paper Airplane ability, the spring jump, and the tube ability.
Toad's fighting: He didn't have any moves in SMB2 or NSMBW that stood out. You also forgot that Bowser Jr. appeared in Sunshine and fought physically in that game. He also could use his graffiti brush to slip up the stage. Again, in Super Mario Galaxy, the Toad Brigade was a bunch of supporting characters that were not central to the plot, while Bowser Jr. was a World Boss, much more important.
As for Toad's importance to Smash, he has nothing that stand him out from the other characters, and I doubt Nintendo will find an open spot for him. Besides, this whole post is discussing whether or not he's viable for Smash, so obviously I'm discussing that.

Propeller Toad said:
As for Geno, I am quite aware of him. His fanbase is very vocal that is for sure, but he really has an almost zero percent chance. How can one compare Geno to other important Mario characters like the aforementioned ones. If Geno was so important, why doesn't he exist now? Even the newer fans of Mario would not know who he is?
Geno isn't in because of copyright issues, it has nothing to do with popularity. Also, Nintendo has included obscure characters such as Pit and Marth and they were huge successes so...


Propeller Toad said:
v) Actually, there is a strong Toad following since this game was announced. Check a variety of forums and even the Toad alliance on the Smash boards forums. He's considered to being one of the main three newcomers along with Bowser Jr. and Paper Mario.
Granted. I haven't been checking Smash boards, I was just saying that I don't know anyone who wants him in.



I spent all my time reading your giant post, now you better read mine. And all you undecided people, read it too.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
@twinArmageddons

i) How does speed and strength = not equal something good in a smash game. It is something we do not have yet in Smash. Additionally, Toad balances this out by being a lightweight and by having weak jumps. And Toad's origins lie from SMB 2. How could one not reference this game for Toad. Peach was just one of the characters who got moves from this game, yet she does not rep everything. Toad cannot float, but he can use a lot of different arsenal from this game. And SMB 2 can be repped more if one sees that Luigi is also repping SMB, SMW, and even Mario 64 (though he wasn't in this game), by being somewhat of a clone of Mario. Toad would not be a clone due to his properties and stats. And saying that Toad does nothing unique in NSMB Wii is like saying that Luigi is nothing but a green palette swap of Mario. He is exactly the same too...

ii) Being an assist trophy= does not equal close to playable status. How is Mr. Resetti, Nintendog, and Hammer Bro. closer to being playable than others. In a way, it is similar to Toad being Peach's move. He has an in game model too. Also, we cannot judge a character's importance from one source or the other. I mean there is a reason why Toad is merchandised much more than Waluigi (just a point). Toad was also one of Miyamoto's original characters, and hence should be included by now.

iii) You have a point there about Yoshi. However, I thought we were talking about the generic statement here? Anyways, I mentioned that Toad still has a lot of things to make him unique. Take in his superhuman strength, Mario Kart skills, power-ups and moves from NSMB Wii and even add a few unique properties like mushroom summoning and spore attacks. Toad too can be very unique. I also mentioned that THE Yoshi was the last star child in Yoshi's Island DS in the ending and not the green Yoshi (but this does not matter since Yoshi is still repping his species).

iv) Honestly, you just dismiss Toad's personality. We can say that Waluigi has the same personality as a goomba too (evil like them). Also I said personality does not matter, just look at the majority of the main Mario characters. Even Waluigi has more personality than them. The reason for this is because Miyamoto wants to keep the main Mario characters ready for any game. As for Paper Mario, I said he can rep his own series; however, this does not change the fact that he is still Mario. Anyways, Toad still has unique moves too such as the propeller cap, mushroom abilities from the spin-offs, and the fact that he is a playable character in the mainstream games.

Also I have Sunshine, and Jr. never fights physically. All he does is run when he's Shadow Mario and create goop piles to slow Mario down. He does not fight till the end when he is fighting on a boat machine launching bullet bills. Bowser was doing the main fighting. Also the Toad Brigade were major allies of Mario. They had more appearances overall than Jr. and Jr.'s three fight role can be compared to any generic mini-boss fight.

Also that is your opinion if whether or not Toad is viable. I'm sorry if I'm sounding harsh, but this is the truth. They made characters like Zelda, Peach (only playable in SMB 2 and Mario RPG excluding spin-offs prior to Melee), G& W, and even the Ice Climbers fight. Even ROB was an accessory to the NES, yet he can fight?! So why not Toad? At least he can fight and does not need to burrow moves like the other characters (Zelda's moves were burrowed from Link while ROB's was completely made up).

v) It was never mentioned to being copyright issues. Also Marth and Pit are much more relevant than him as they are the main stars of their games which have spawned sequels. They are not obscure as their games were recognizable. Geno was not the main hero of Mario RPG, Mario was. Geno is not recognizable as he never survived past this game. This is why Luigi, Peach, and Bowser made it as they still appear in Mario games. And since then, Geno has yet to make an appearance (excluding the one cameo from M & L: SS).

vi) I'm not trying to force you to like Toad, twinArmageddons. I am simply stating my reasoning. Many bash Toad, yet they don't realize that he does have a good chance. Also I understand your likeness for Toad; however, this is a support group for saying why Toad has a chance, not to go against him. There are others who want Toad even if some others do not. It's the same for any character... Toad's wanted percentage back in Brawl was very small since he did not have big roles back then. However, lately he has a lot of support due to his inclusion in a majority of Mario games these days.

Toad's fighting: He didn't have any moves in SMB2 or NSMBW that stood out.
So does Mario, Luigi, and Peach have no moves that stood out either as they play the same or similarly as him... All of the Mario characters have Smash only moves that were created for them in order to fit as detail is one thing the Mario series characters lack...
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
I forgot to mention this, but if you are willing to support Toad for the next Super Smash Bros. game, please join this group if you are already a member of the Smash Boards forums. A website dedicated to Toad's chances has also been made from the same group. This group has just started and it is basically a group dedicated to talking about and supporting Toad's chances for the next Smash. You can even make an account there if you want; however, I am not forcing anyone to do this. It is just for the common interest for those supporting Toad. :)

Here is the link to the Toad Brigade Alliance (Toad support group) -- you need to be a member to see its contents. :

http://www.smashboards.com/group.php?groupid=2597
 

WakerLuma

Celebi, the Time Traveller.
I agree with you. Toad would be a good candidate. He is able to play a role in the storyline quite well, whatever it is. However, I'd also like Mewtwo back, the Animal Crossing Boy and girl as a duo similar to the Ice climbers added in, and Professor Layton and Luke in. Toad is more likely than the ones I listed to get in. However, Nintendo can surprise us. Super Smash Bros. can bring back characters from obscure games, like Pit, who's series has only 2 soon to be 3 games, and the Ice Climbers, who only have 1. Seeing as Toad is from a series with an extremely large amount of games, he could be a very likely candidate. Also, he could have alternate costumes such as these:
Normal
Shroob costume
..I could think of more later.
Also, Propeller Toad, I really like the picture of Toad in your avatar.
That is all.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Thanks WakerLuma for your post, and thank you for your compliment about my avatar :). I agree that Toad would be a great addition. And a shroob costume? Very interesting..I like it! I also think he should get the five basic Toad colors as well (THE Toad (Red and blue vest), Blue, Yellow, green, and purple). Perhaps a Toadsworth and Toadette palette swap would also be good too.

The reason I think that other one-shot characters like Pit and the Ice Climbers made it before Toad is because Nintendo wanted to show the other franchises they made. In each Smash Bros., we have received new Mario reps (well if Wario counted as one in Brawl) and I think Nintendo is trying to limit the Mario characters added in each game. However, I feel that SSB4 is the perfect opportunity for Toad as all the other major Mario characters have already been added in, so this allows Toad to finally become playable. He would complete so many groups of the roster (SMB 2 cast, NSMB Wii cast, Mario Kart 64 cast, Classic Mario characters, and Playable Mainstream Mario characters cast). Also, he has been requested since the Melee days, so why not let him in by now?

I also like your suggestions. The Animal Crossers are great ideas; however, I don't know if Nintendo would do it since they said the series was too peaceful (but then again Animal Crossing is becoming more popular). Mewtwo was also one of my favourites back in Melee; it would be nice to see his return.
 

SonicMario

Star Spirit
I think it may all depend on how big the roster will be, and How many of the Brawl characters are returning. If the roster is only bigger by like 10 characters, I don't like Toad's chances. However if it reaches 50 or over there's a more probable chance. However, if I were making the roster I'd only put Toad in if the roster size is set to be 55 or more which would provide space for all the major Nintendo franchises to expand and leave room for a good amount of new characters. I believe 45-50 to be the more realistic size limit in all honesty though.

Though we don't know how much space the Wii U will have. For all we know there could be space for 60 characters plus all that other content. Maybe Downloadable Characters, and Stages are planned too. Right now the possibilities are endless since SSB4 hasn't technically started major development yet and all we know that it will be made.
 

Dr. Javelin

Nathan Latsk
Northern Verve said:
I think it may all depend on how big the roster will be, and How many of the Brawl characters are returning. If the roster is only bigger by like 10 characters, I don't like Toad's chances. However if it reaches 50 or over there's a more probable chance. However, if I were making the roster I'd only put Toad in if the roster size is set to be 55 or more which would provide space for all the major Nintendo franchises to expand and leave room for a good amount of new characters. I believe 45-50 to be the more realistic size limit in all honesty though.

Though we don't know how much space the Wii U will have. For all we know there could be space for 60 characters plus all that other content. Maybe Downloadable Characters, and Stages are planned too. Right now the possibilities are endless since SSB4 hasn't technically started major development yet and all we know that it will be made.
Yeah, all the chances of new characters really boils down to the number of new spots. Brawl didn't have many more characters than Melee so I'm assuming that the number of characters will only go up by about 10, and maybe 15. 20 is out of reach. I wouldn't be surprised to only see 5 new spots.

The more spaces, the more likely Toad will get in. However, HAL likely feels that there are too many Mario reps and will not expand them much, preferring to add obscure characters such as ROB and Pit as they did with Brawl. We only got two Mario reps last time, Wario and Diddy Kong, and many people (myself included) already believe that there are too many Mario reps anyway.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
Toad is a great choice. I truly support Toad's inclusion for the next Super Smash Bros. game.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Yeah, all the chances of new characters really boils down to the number of new spots. Brawl didn't have many more characters than Melee so I'm assuming that the number of characters will only go up by about 10, and maybe 15. 20 is out of reach. I wouldn't be surprised to only see 5 new spots.

The more spaces, the more likely Toad will get in. However, HAL likely feels that there are too many Mario reps and will not expand them much, preferring to add obscure characters such as ROB and Pit as they did with Brawl. We only got two Mario reps last time, Wario and Diddy Kong, and many people (myself included) already believe that there are too many Mario reps anyway.
Yeah, it is true that Toad's inclusion would be based on the amount of newcomer slots there are for SSB4. However, we do have to note that there are very few notable new series or existing series that have yet to have a rep in Smash (excluding third party companies), so this could allow the existing franchises to expand on their characters. If Toad got in, he would definitely be under the Mushroom Logo for the Super Mario Bros. characters. However, it is understandable that Nintendo probably sees DK, Yoshi, possibly Diddy, and Wario as somewhat Mario reps as they do appear in the spin-offs still. However, we did lose Dr.Mario and it does seem that a trend is occurring with at least two Mario reps (including Wario and Diddy) being added to each game. So this may allow Toad to be given a chance.

Also I find something else quite interesting. It is the Melee polls. These are the polls that had the Nintendo characters that the Japanese fans wanted back in Melee. Here are the results...

Super Mario series:
(1) Koopa: 169 (Bowser)
(2) Princess Peach: 66
(3) Wario: 65
(4) Kinopio: 27 (Toad)
(5) Nokonoko: 9 (Koopa Troopa)
(6) Kamek: 8 (Magikoopa)
(7) Kuribou: 7 (Goomba)
(8] Mallow (Mario RPG): 5
(9) Geno (Mario RPG): 5
(10) Baby Mario: 3

If you look closer, Toad was the fourth wanted Mario character in Melee (ninth overall from all Nintendo series). What I find interesting is the Mario series. Both Bowser and Peach had the highest amount of votes, and as a result they were in Melee. The third most wanted Mario character was Wario and he was added in Brawl - though his own series. The next one in line is Toad... Now of course I am aware that this poll is outdated; however, I still find this quite interesting in terms of the characters being added in.
 

SonicMario

Star Spirit
Yeah the problem with that is that Toad is closer in results to a Generic Koopa then he is to Wario. Also if Poll results decided everything, Ridley would of been in Brawl (I think he was #2 behind Dedede. Though Dedede did make it in) though I suppose you could say Size was also an issue for Ridley there much less so for Toad.

I'm not 100% against Toad but it still all depends on how big the roster will be. At the normal rate the Smash Bros. games went I don't like Toad's chances.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
You do bring up a good point. Ridley did not make it in, but I think that there was a reason why Nintendo personally stated why he couldn't be playable (the big factor).Of course, polls should never be taken seriously, but it is still a possible clue to seeing how the final roster is made. At least that's how I see it. :p

Additionally, while Toad was closer to Koopa than to Wario, he still beat a lot of other Nintendo chars by being 9th wanted. Also 27 votes for Toad is still pretty big in comparison to the other Mario characters-- characters from other series like Mewtwo had 35, so Toad was pretty close with them. While I understand your point about the limited slots for SSB4, I just feel that Toad now has a great chance as he is finally becoming more of an important character again (especially since his "revival" in NSMB Wii).
 

UltraMario

Donkey Kong
After readin' yer' speech, I want Toad to be in this game. You should work at Nintendo, you are a great speech maker my friend. Well done.
 

Propeller Toad

Dislikes the amount of neglect Toad receives...
Thanks Pinkie Pie! I just hoped to have my reasoning for Toad clear so that others can understand why there are fans supporting him. Many tend to look at Toad from his Super Mario Bros. role, but if one looks outside this game, they can see that there are many ways that makes Toad both a unique and favorable Mario series newcomer in the next Super Smash Bros..
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
If Captain Falcon and Fox become playable, I don't see why Toad can't. Heck, I can go as far to say Mr. Game & Watch or R.O.B. being playable is very weird, compared to Toad being playable.
 
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