Daisy officially confirmed to be a Peach clone: Dark Pit of Peach. Thoughts?

memoryman3

memoryman3

Dry Bones
Banned User
So with Smash Ultimate FINALLY including Daisy as a well deserved playable character, fans like me have been cheering and are looking forward to the release in December! Thank you Mr Sakurai and your team!

Only problem is...she is pretty much a complete clone of Peach, with only “different characteristics”. That’s right, not only do they share the same basic moveset, but they also share a lot of attributes like running and walking speed plus strength. This has been concerning for Daisy fans as in sports games she is usually more energetic and ruthless.

Daisy fans have been adamant that she is her own character with her own idenity, but whilst she looks extremely polished, it is a shame to see the differences in playstyles and identity potentially wasted. In Smash, she is less of a Luigi and more of a Dark Pit, even if she has more animation differences than the latter.

For why she is a Peach clone, I can gather the following ressons why.

• Her frame and attire are very close to Peach’s, more so than any other Mario character to each other, Except maybe Toad and Toadette.

• Seems to be designed to complement Peach well, as they are besties. Maybe this will lead to Peach and Daisy having a closer friendship?

• That Daisy Peach color means that a lot of Daisy fans have gotten used to Peach’s playstyle, and changing up Daisy too much could be jarring. I like Peach’s moveset so seeing that on a char I actually like...is nice. Wish she was a tad faster.

• Lucina, Daisy and Dark Pit are characters who try to seperate their identites from their main core. Dark Pit literally hates being called “Pitoo” and wants to stand on his own. Lucina adopts a new style but she is closely related to Marth. Daisy has been diverging but she still has Peach’s blood
 
Wait, the fighter Sakurai explicitly said was a clone, an echo fighter if you will, is actually confirmed to be.........................a clone??????????????????????????
 
Russian Baby Luigi said:
Wait, the fighter Sakurai explicitly said was a clone, an echo fighter if you will, is actually confirmed to be.........................a clone??????????????????????????
Click to expand...

Yeah :P

Even though I was pushing for her to be seperate, I can see why she is a clone. However I do wonder why she has Blue Toad. Peach gave her one when teaching her how to fight in Smash?
 
You know, playing devil's advocate here, just because Daisy is a Peach clone in Smash, doesn't mean she's literally a clone of Peach everywhere else. The Koopalings all share the same slot as Bowser Jr. (while looking distorted beyond belief) yet no one here will argue that they are clones of Bowser Jr. (well rather they all mash together but that's another story). The same deal with Alph and Olimar, two technically unrelated characters. The reason they picked Daisy to put over Peach was because the shared a very similar build to Peach, and Daisy was made from spare parts, so why not put the leftovers to good use and make a character out of it. In fact, the Daisy recolor for Peach in Smash 4 still being there bothered me more than anything because they could have a Wireframe Mac situation and give Daisy a unique one-slot voice and nameplate.

Luigi in fact initially started out as a clone for Mario. Ganondorf used to be a clone of Captain Falcon. If you give Smash Bros. some time, Daisy will probably slowly gather distinctions over time. It most certainly happened to Luigi and Ganondorf who have pretty much hugely changed since their first appearance in Smash Bros., and slowly happening to Toon Link and maybe Young Link.
 
Was Dr Mario ever a clone of Mario?

Because if so, then he should be counted too. It seems that nowadays, his playstyle is different enough from Mario at the point that he can be his own standalone character. And the funny thing is... ahem... he actually is a technical clone, just not gameplay-wise. That only makes him a semi-clone.
 
Dr. Mario has pretty much been a clone in Mario in Super Smash Bros. Melee. I think when people throw around the term "clone" it's mostly because of their animations and move properties that muddle with another character's but never quite the same.

Really, the term "semi-clone" and "clone" is very loosely defined and hard to determine for fighters. I say that a fighter would constitute as a clone if they share quite a few properties. Like, Dr. Mario is more similar to Mario than Lucas is to Ness.
 
I don't think Daisy would of gotten in any other way at this point. She does have her unique traits, but Dark Pit and Lucina also could be argued that they had more potential then they were presented with in Smash.

With the focus on Smash Ultimate being mainly bringing every single playable character of the past back no matter who they were (Even unexpected returns like Pichu and Young Link), the room for unique newcomers was much smaller. And another unique Mario rep when there's already plenty of Mario characters in when there are other franchises that could sorely need characters of their own? That might be a little much.

I don't mean that just to apply to Daisy. Options like Captain Toad, Waluigi, or Paper Mario if none of them are playable (With Waluigi already out of the running) it just means any more unique newcomers they add weren't going to come from the Mario series. Daisy was both easy to add by simply copying off Peach and probably a fairly requested character in the ballot. If Daisy is the only new Mario character in Smash Ultimate then that just means they wanted to add another Mario character without necessarily taking too much dev time from other potential newcomers in different series plus the returning veterans that were not in Smash 4. Cause when you're balancing Peach across the whole cast then you've practically already balanced Daisy. You can't echo Toad, Waluigi, or Paper Mario off anybody. So it's not like Daisy was chosen OVER those characters. It's more like unique newcomers from other series were prioritized over yet another new unique Mario character. The introduction of Echo fighters gives hope to characters that would otherwise stand little to no chance otherwise if they within reason could be echoed off a character from their own series. And that's exactly how Daisy got her chance.

(I'm still holding out at least a little hope for Captain Toad at this point, but I would completely understand if he's left out in favor of different unique newcomers that would add to other franchises that could use them. The Mario cast still doesn't feel quite complete without a playable Toad but I understand it's not that high of a priority. And at least regular Toad is getting a little more respect then the meatshield status he used to be in. But it absolutely won't be Daisy's fault he's not in either way. Same thing for any other potential Mario rep)
 
Super Smash Bros Melee:

Aka just put in a bunch of characters and make their movesets similar to existing ones.

Ganon is not one to yell "FALCIIIIOOOOON.... PWWWAAAAAUUUUNCH!" All the time. No one will notice.
 
My thought after all this was processed is: I wonder what would happen if Daisy was the Super Mario "clone" back in Super Smash Bros. Melee instead of Dr. Mario? The funny thing with Echo characters is that the label is only applied to the two "clone" characters in Wii U/3DS, as opposed to the ones used in Melee. It's very possible that they all are already developed to be much different than the characters they derive their movesets from, such as Dr. Mario being re-introduced as a "Mario who never got his moveset changed in Brawl" and Pichu being able to take recoil damage from its electric attacks. It would most likely mean that Daisy would be a lot more distinct from Peach at that point that she can occupy her own number, much like how Melee's "clones" all have their own number. On the other hand, Dr. Mario will never get in as a separate character and had to settle as a Mario costume instead.

Thank you for reading.
 
Dr. Mario isn't an echo because his neutral b, down b, and down air are distinct from Mario's. Echoes have to be exactly 1 to 1 aside from visuals. This applies to the other melee clones because in addition to having some unique moves, they have different weights and speeds.
 
Captain America said:
Dr. Mario isn't an echo because his neutral b, down b, and down air are distinct from Mario's. Echoes have to be exactly 1 to 1 aside from visuals. This applies to the other melee clones because in addition to having some unique moves, they have different weights and speeds.
Click to expand...

If you are responding to the post I made, I need to clarify that I did not mention that Dr. Mario is an Echo fighter at all. In fact, I expounded my point about how the Melee "clones" managed to become distinct as to be considered separate fighters (as opposed to Dark Pit and Lucina). I utilised Dr. Mario as an example, where he's basically "Mario who never got his moveset changed in Brawl" that essentially made him distinct. As such, we are on the same page because that's the exact point I made: Melee's "clones" are considered distinct fighters that can not be labelled as an Echo Fighter.

I am posting my thought on this topic, which amounts to a "what-if scenario". I am musing that if Daisy were to be the Super Mario "clone", she would be considered a distinct fighter as to have her own number by now, because each iteration is an opportunity for existing "clone" fighters to flesh out distinct features. Another thought I had is that if that were to happen, Dr. Mario would not have never become a fighter at all and would instead be a Mario costume (like Builder Mario and Wedding Mario).

Thank you for reading.
 
i cant believe that the clone i said was a clone all that time ago actually turned out to be a clone

this is a new level for me ladies and gentlemen i'll take my winnings in cash please
 
Captain America said:
Dr. Mario isn't an echo because his neutral b, down b, and down air are distinct from Mario's. Echoes have to be exactly 1 to 1 aside from visuals. This applies to the other melee clones because in addition to having some unique moves, they have different weights and speeds.
Click to expand...

Err, I am pretty sure Dark Pit has 3 different moves. 1:1 aside from visuals is a COSTUME. In fact pretty much all echo characters have different netural B behaviours cause of Kirby.
 
Silver Bow and Electroshock arm are slightly different, I'll give you that, but they serve a similar function and differ only in animation, speed, and knock back properties. I don't really look at final smashes when looking at movesets, but I will grant that his is different. Dr. Mario's down air and down b are completely different moves from Mario's. Though I will grant that pills are pretty similar to fireballs. Though in Melee they were much more effective projectiles than fireballs.

1 to 1 is a bit of an exaggeration, but they're functionally the same with with different properties and animations.
 
I do not mind Peach and Daisy playing similarly, in fact I think they should play similarly. But Dark Pit level changes where the differences are barely there is a bit....lazy and honestly a little bit insulting to both Peach and Daisy. I think any move with a flower effect will have different properties, like the Bomber.

Oh, and Dark Pit’s bow has more pronounced differences than Dr Mario’s pills.
 
Of course Daisy is a clone of Peach. That's all she'll ever be.
 
Well it seems like it was either Dark Pit level clone or nothing at all. Again, you could hope for de-clonings in later games a la Falco and Ganondorf, but at the point Lucina and Dak Pit got nothing new to set them apart (aside from Marth having a new idle animation), I think the echoes may stay that way for the foreseeable future.

And of course, if the next game doesn't prioritize bringing back everyone, who knows how high priority Daisy and the rest of the echoes would even be. They would have to be last minute additions where they once again will be virtually identical.
 
Barring the chance they just decide to port the game with a few more characters on the next system (And even then, it's not that easy to do that because you have to relicense all the 3rd Party content in order to bring it all back. Sakurai has said as such recently). I do feel like the next Smash game is headed to a reboot and a much smaller roster, since as Sakurai said this was probably their only chance to do what they did in bringing everybody back. Plus I feel this was a special occasion kind of game since next year, and in fact just one month after the release of the game the franchise will hit 20 years old in Japan.

And if that's the case, the best that Echo fighters might hope for are alternate costumes (As in Alph and/or Koopaling style) of fighters that would still likely be around even if the roster was completely halved or worse.

We won't have to worry about this for a while since this is only the Switch's 2nd year in it's lifespan and Nintendo has said it plans to support the Switch for a long while. But I think it's something we should certainly brace for when we get closer to it. As continually adding characters like they have certainly isn't very sustainable.
 
I've expressed it many times in the past but I would love if Ultimate just became THE smash game and it had new content added all throughout the Switch's life cycle. And if they can get through the licensing nightmare, port it to the next system with all the added content in "Turbo edition" of sorts that could also be updated for the lifespan. I'd even be cool if the first year of support was new characters, and later expansions just focus don other content. Like spend time developing a subspace style story and having that be the big DLC.
 
What if they are developping the story mode now? They didn't reveal every detail of the game.

There is still a few months before the game releases, and I don't really know how much time does a story mode take to program, but if they've been working on it for a while, I could see it happening, especially because Sakurai's reason for not doing that in Smash 4 was... say... underwhelming to say the least.
 
If they were developing a Story mode, they would have most certainly show that off at E3. There's no way they're going to hide something as major as that during such an event.
 
Russian Baby Luigi said:
If they were developing a Story mode, they would have most certainly show that off at E3. There's no way they're going to hide something as major as that during such an event.
Click to expand...

idk, it'd be a pretty awesome secret to keep until the game releases. Don't say anything and then when the game's finally out, have players discover the story mode (or discover nothing :P).
 
I mean, it's not like I want to be right about not expecting a story mode, as when pulled properly, it could be really amazing but considering what happens these days, do huge modes or major elements that become selling points to all types of audiences alike like this ever get hidden when they first get revealed? Mario Kart 8 Deluxe, for starters, advertised its battle mode straight out of the can. Mario Tennis Aces revealed the fact it had a story mode right from the getgo.

If they did revealed the trailer for a cool story mode, that, paired with everyone returning, would not only blow the hype into the roof but way up into at least the thermosphere.
 
I imagine there is some new single player mode yet to be revealed but it's most certainly not a story mode. They can't show everything at E3 and we didn't know about Smash Run and Smash Tour for awhile. It'll be a focal point in a Smash direct closer to release. What that mode could be, I have no idea.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back