Let's further cut down on our Super Smash Bros. content.

[Doomhiker]

If you remember https://www.marioboards.com/index.php?topic=39608.0 this subject then you will remember how we decided to cut down on our Super Smash Bros. content. But honestly: the extent to our coverage of the Super Smash Bros series is still too large. We still have pages on characters such as Joker who do not have any appearances that pertain to the Mario franchise, but still have a page due to appearing in Smash. Sure, the Mario franchise is quite major in the Smash franchise, but in Super Smash Bros. Ultimate the Mario franchise only has 11 fighters compared to eighty total after DLC. Very close to being only one eighth of the roster. While fighters are not the only representation of franchises in Smash, it is an example of how Smash does not focus on one or two series like other crossovers do: the Smash series focuses on video games as a whole. So, I will ask a question: will a regular Mariowiki reader go to the site for info about the Joker? No. How about info about his appearance in Smash? Still no. If the hypothetical reader would want to learn about the Joker, or his Smash appearance specifically, then they would go to either a Persona wiki, or the Smash wiki. Not the Super Mario Wiki. Of course, we do have similar to Smash coverage with other crossovers such as with Itadaki Street DS. However those crossovers are nearly one half Mario, so giving characters and stages pages makes sense as they pertain to a largely Mario game. No Smash game is largely Mario. Only partially Mario. Not even close to the likes to Mario & Sonic. And Wario Blast uses Wario as a major selling point, unlike with Smash where so many different franchises crossing over is the selling point. While the "bros." part of Super Smash Bros. is similar to Super Mario Bros. bros. is also a shortening of brothers. Finally, we even recently deleted G&W pages that don't pertain to the Mario franchise. (https://www.mariowiki.com/MarioWiki:Proposals/Archive_53#Delete_certain_Game_.26_Watch_game_articles)


Of course, character articles of characters that only are covered due to Smash appearances (and sometimes other unrelated appearances that do not pertain to Mario) are not the only Smash info that I fell should be deleted or trimmed.
*I also want any non-Mario item pages to be removed. So Freezie's Smash info will stay, but Banana Gun (which I did admittedly create) will be deleted.
*Pokémon will be deleted, and Assist Trophy will be trimmed to remove info of all non-Mario assist Trophies so it will only include info of Mario assist trophies. I mean, why would someone go to the Mario Wiki to learn about the fan-favorite Mario character Arcade Bunny? No one.
*Other lists with mixed pertaining info will also be trimmed to only contain Mario related info. So for example Spirit (Super Smash Bros. Ultimate) will only cover Mario spirits, not stuff like the Absolutely Safe Capsule's spirit. These pages will be adjusted to reflect the changes, although they will still contain opening paragraphs to explain how they work.
*Character pages and other non-Mario thing pages that have appearances in games that pertain to the Mario franchise will be kept, although their Smash info will be removed. So for example Banjo's page due to his appearances in Diddy Kong Racing N-Gang, etc., although the information about his SSBU appearance will be removed, as it does not pertain to the Mario franchise.
*Non-Mario stage pages will also be deleted, unless they fall into the rule above.
*The game pages will still stay, although they will be trimmed to only include info regarding the appearances of the Mario franchise, so it will only include the Mario fighters, cameos, stages, items, and any other pertaining info.
*The Smash series page will be trimmed in a similar fashion.
*Alph's page will be deleted. He is literally just a costume in Smash games.
*Any non-Mario bosses such as Tabuu will be deleted. Also, Off Waves will be deleted, because it should have been merged with Tabuu in the first place. Porky Statue, who is technically not a boss will also be deleted due to not pertaining to Mario.
*Any subspace emissary levels will be deleted, too. Even the ones where Mario character can play in, as they still are Smash levels, not Mario ones.
*Note that there may be other things that may be missing, but basically this will remove any Smash info that does not have anything to do with Mario, while keeping Mario info that does actually pertain to Mario.

Of course, Mariowiki:Coverage will be changed, to consider the Smash franchise as a "minor crossover", which is what it is, and thus, it should only receive partial coverage. While you may say that including so much Smash info is harmless, it is not, as it means that with every new game editors have to spend large amounts of time, and effort, making articles and update them to cover stuff that is not really Mario-reated, on the Super Mario Wiki? All of this Smash info wastes editors' time. In the enter Smash is not Mario. Is Spiral Mountain Mario? No, it is not, why should we cover it, if just it's Smash appearance. Of course, this is a large change, so please discuss and add feedback. Thanks.

 

[YoshiFlutterJump]

I think that Banjo's SSBU info should stay but I agree with literally everything else. Delete, delete, and delete some more.

 

[Superchao]

I think that Banjo's SSBU info should stay but I agree with literally everything else. Delete, delete, and delete some more.

banjo isn't a part of our coverage so if you want to purge it you have to purge him too

 

[Alex95]

Of course, Mariowiki:Coverage will be changed, to consider the Smash franchise as a "minor crossover", which is what it is, and thus, it should only receive partial coverage.

Smash is quite possibly the absolute biggest crossover, it's hardly minor in any sense. Major or minor, it is still a crossover. There's no guest appearances like you just decide to include Mario in the background of a Pokemon game. Every series is heavily represented in multiple ways.

Off of that, why would we remove other playable characters? Sure, other wikis do, but that doesn't mean we should. We cover Smash like we cover any other crossover. Every playable character gets a page, it's the same thing with Fortune Street. Why should we cover the Dragon Quest characters in Fortune Street, but not the other characters in Smash? That would lead to a weird place for Hero, tbh.

So for example Banjo's page due to his appearances in Diddy Kong Racing N-Gang, etc., although the information about his SSBU appearance will be removed, as it does not pertain to the Mario franchise.

This is just terribly confusing. In a game with both Mario and Banjo, why wouldn't we include Smash in Banjo's article?

There's also the popularity factor of the Super Mario Wiki itself. While it may not be the first wiki that comes to mind for people who actually use wikis consistently, they can still find the information with us and be led to where they need to, usually Smash Wiki. We work together, that's a point of NIWA.

tl;dr Smash is still Mario. It's also Zelda. And Pokemon. And Fire Emblem. And literally any other franchise represented. It's just a series where they all come together.

I agree with Alph's deletion, though.

 

[Doomhiker]

Of course, Mariowiki:Coverage will be changed, to consider the Smash franchise as a "minor crossover", which is what it is, and thus, it should only receive partial coverage.

Smash is quite possibly the absolute biggest crossover, it's hardly minor in any sense. Major or minor, it is still a crossover. There's no guest appearances like you just decide to include Mario in the background of a Pokemon game. Every series is heavily represented in multiple ways.

Off of that, why would we remove other playable characters? Sure, other wikis do, but that doesn't mean we should. We cover Smash like we cover any other crossover. Every playable character gets a page, it's the same thing with Fortune Street. Why should we cover the Dragon Quest characters in Fortune Street, but not the other characters in Smash? That would lead to a weird place for Hero, tbh.

So for example Banjo's page due to his appearances in Diddy Kong Racing N-Gang, etc., although the information about his SSBU appearance will be removed, as it does not pertain to the Mario franchise.

This is just terribly confusing. In a game with both Mario and Banjo, why wouldn't we include Smash in Banjo's article?

There's also the popularity factor of the Super Mario Wiki itself. While it may not be the first wiki that comes to mind for people who actually use wikis consistently, they can still find the information with us and be led to where they need to, usually Smash Wiki. We work together, that's a point of NIWA.

tl;dr Smash is still Mario. It's also Zelda. And Pokemon. And Fire Emblem. And literally any other franchise represented. It's just a series where they all come together.

I agree with Alph's deletion, though.

While yes, Mario's appearance in Smash is major, it is small in comparison to everything else. In Mario & Sonic, for example, Mario is half of the game. In Smash, he is a merely small fraction. A better way to word the differences would be "crossovers which are largely Mario" and "crossovers that are not largely Mario". Just like how Smash is still not largely Zelda, even if it is heavily represented. The reason why we would not include Banjo's Smash appearance in his page is simple, as despite being in Smash, his Smash appearance is not part of anything Mario. It is part of Smash, like how his Banjo-Kazooie appearance is not part of anything Mario. However his DKR is part of something Mario so we cover it.

As for the playable characters thing, they do not need to be covered when Smash is not a Mario game. Sure many Mario things are in it, but that does not transform it into a Mario game. A Smash game is a Smash game, not a Mario game, or a Zelda game. With Fortune Street, Mario is basically half the game. Due to that covering the Dragon Quest characters makes sense, as they are in a game that is largely Mario. Smash is not largely Mario. As for the wiki thing, the NIWA wiki template on game pages and the Main menu already help the Smash Wiki and direct people to it. Just because the wiki is popular does not mean we should cover certain things: with that mentality we would cover stuff from Splatoon.

 

[YoshiFlutterJump]

I think that Banjo's SSBU info should stay but I agree with literally everything else. Delete, delete, and delete some more.

banjo isn't a part of our coverage so if you want to purge it you have to purge him too

It's just that
-we already have a Banjo article
-we already have an SSBU article
So I don't see any harm in keeping his SSBU info.

 

[Doomhiker]

I think that Banjo's SSBU info should stay but I agree with literally everything else. Delete, delete, and delete some more.

banjo isn't a part of our coverage so if you want to purge it you have to purge him too

It's just that
-we already have a Banjo article
-we already have an SSBU article
So I don't see any harm in keeping his SSBU info.

It would be inconsistent to cover a character's info from Smash that is not from the Mario franchise and not for others. A reader would only look for his appearances in the Mario franchise on his article on the Mario wiki not on his Smash appearance. Plus the harm would be editors spending time and effort on something that does not really pertain to the Mario Wiki.

 

[Alex95]

While yes, Mario's appearance in Smash is major, it is small in comparison to everything else. In Mario & Sonic, for example, Mario is half of the game. In Smash, he is a merely small fraction.

Mario's series has actually been stated as one of the biggest inspiration for Smash Bros. A majority of the content is actually from Mario, in regards to characters, items, stages, etc.

The reason why we would not include Banjo's Smash appearance in his page is simple, as despite being in Smash, his Smash appearance is not part of anything Mario. It is part of Smash, like how his Banjo-Kazooie appearance is not part of anything Mario. However his DKR is part of something Mario so we cover it.

Again, this makes no sense. If we limit the content about Smash because it isn't a Mario-focused game, despite Mario and Banjo appearing in the same game, we may as well just delete the page. Would we remove Link's Smash info? Samus's? Sonic's? Why? They are all playable characters next to the Mario ones, so they deserve as much Smash coverage as Mario does.

As for the playable characters thing, they do not need to be covered when Smash is not a Mario game. Sure many Mario things are in it, but that does not transform it into a Mario game. A Smash game is a Smash game, not a Mario game, or a Zelda game. With Fortune Street, Mario is basically half the game. Due to that covering the Dragon Quest characters makes sense, as they are in a game that is largely Mario. Smash is not largely Mario. As for the wiki thing, the NIWA wiki template on game pages and the Main menu already help the Smash Wiki and direct people to it. Just because the wiki is popular does not mean we should cover certain things: with that mentality we would cover stuff from Splatoon.

No. Smash is an everything game. Why would we cover Dragon Quest characters from Fortune Street, which is a crossover, and not the characters from Smash, which is also a crossover? Same type of scenario here, a crossover is a crossover no matter how you look at it.

We don't go into the major technical data like Smash Wiki does, and we have the NIWA templates down at the bottom that link to the articles that do. But removing Smash content in this way is just being picky, there's no real reason to do so. Mario characters cross over with characters from another series almost all the time. We would remove Smash content from Link's page, Inkling's page, and Banjo's page, yet still keep the article despite Mario being in Smash and we don't cover the Smash content? It makes no sense to me to limit our coverage just because Smash isn't "Mario-focused".

 

[Doomhiker]

While yes, Mario's appearance in Smash is major, it is small in comparison to everything else. In Mario & Sonic, for example, Mario is half of the game. In Smash, he is a merely small fraction.

Mario's series has actually been stated as one of the biggest inspiration for Smash Bros. A majority of the content is actually from Mario, in regards to characters, items, stages, etc.

The reason why we would not include Banjo's Smash appearance in his page is simple, as despite being in Smash, his Smash appearance is not part of anything Mario. It is part of Smash, like how his Banjo-Kazooie appearance is not part of anything Mario. However his DKR is part of something Mario so we cover it.

Again, this makes no sense. If we limit the content about Smash because it isn't a Mario-focused game, despite Mario and Banjo appearing in the same game, we may as well just delete the page. Would we remove Link's Smash info? Samus's? Sonic's? Why? They are all playable characters next to the Mario ones, so they deserve as much Smash coverage as Mario does.

As for the playable characters thing, they do not need to be covered when Smash is not a Mario game. Sure many Mario things are in it, but that does not transform it into a Ma