Super Mario = Paper Mario?

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
I thought BLOF said it well, SPM has a fandom. Outside of the fandom it's generally disliked by the Mario RPG Fandom.
That doesn't match my experience.
 

Shy Guy on Wheels

Hornet from Daytona USA for Smash
I mean just scrolling through comments of YouTube videos to do with Paper Mario it seems that most people like it.

To test I just went to Hero's "What happened to SPM" and he himself said that he didn't like Super Paper Mario but when I went to the comments sure there were a few people who agreed with him but there were a huge number of people who came to its defense.
who is Hero and why should I care about the opinion of him and his fanbase
 

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
who is Hero and why should I care about the opinion of him and his fanbase
He's a youtuber, I don't know much else about him other than he has some affiliation with PM and doesn't like SPM

True the comments section of a YouTube video is not a fair test as it depends on the people who watch them, but given this dude clearly isn't an SPM fan anyway, things like this convince me SPM isn't all that hated anymore. It's not just that video, I've seen many others with similar comments sections of YT videos relating to Paper Mario.

On the other hand though I just went to the title sceen theme for sticker star and it actually had some positivity in the comments, but not overwhelming. I suppose people are more likely to watch a video or listen to music about a game they love than a game they hate but not all of these videos really have that bias in favour of SPM if you ask me.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
All what we have are anecdotes. We cannot accurate gauge the overall consensus of a fanbase. However, this isn't a debate, it's all a matter of opinion, and my point still stands: there are common, prevalent, shared negative opinions on Super Paper Mario and they aren't to be dismissed, regardless if they're a smaller group of people or not.

Comment sections on YouTube videos don't really invite all that much discussion to begin with. They're mostly echo chambers with most people with similar views already agreeing with the said YouTuber, since those types of people are the sort of ones that their channel attracts in the first place. Someone like me won't be clicking YouTube videos for those sort of subjects, and thus won't be leaving comments behind. I know there are a few weirdos who click on such YouTube videos just to hate on the games and write a negative comment but those get like downrated to oblivion and are practically invisible anyway unless the author ironically pins that comment.
 

Wicked Clown-nak

Too Fat to Release
I generally see more praise for Super Paper Mario than hate in the Paper Mario subreddit, which is a fandom hub for the Paper Mario series in general.

Usually when someone posts a negative opinion on SPM, they're met with downvotes/angry reacts, unless it's a genuinely well-constructed and constructively critical post in which case the responses are mostly "i respect your opinion but disagree/i see your point but i don't think that ruins the game"

That being said it's definitely the most controversial game in the series, with the consensus on SS/CS being more negatively skewed and 64/TTYD being more positively skewed. I think that's actually pretty poetic considering SPM's theme of light/dark and balance between the two sides.
 

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
I think this thread went too far on a tangent of "how unpopular is SPM?"

Anyway, I'd say that to conclude it, SPM to me seems much more unpopular than Galaxy is relative to how famous they are, but SPM still is a lot more popular than SS or CS ever will be, so it at least loosely fits the analogy I quoted in the OP.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
Well, it's the same situation on Marioboards. You aren't going to find people who aren't fans of Mario on Marioverse, since this forum doesn't attract these sorts of people. You're not going to find questions such as "Why don't you like Paper Mario?" on a Paper Mario subreddit. As I said, it's an echo chamber of opinions and people critical of Paper Mario aren't going to be on there. I do dislike trolls and people who say shit like "Paper Mario has never been good" and make low effort bait but still, you're not going to find much honest, effortly crititcal posts because again, it doesn't attract this sort of people to begin with: most people are nice enough to just leave fandoms alone if they don't like the games they represent.

I do agree that Super Paper Mario has a stronger fanbase than either Sticker Star or Color Splash though. Especially Sticker Star. It's one of the most hated Mario games out there.
 

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
I do agree that Super Paper Mario has a stronger fanbase than either Sticker Star or Color Splash though. Especially Sticker Star. It's one of the most hated Mario games out there.
Last time I checked on TheTopTens SS was 10th and SPM and TTYD were both above 100. SPM was actually lower than TTYD but I don't think that's accurate.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
I wouldn't call the content of TheTopTens "inaccurate", it's really just their opinion, unless you meant that you misremembered their placements.
 

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
I just checked now and TTYD is still higher on the "worst" list than SPM is. But I mean from all other anecdotal experience TTYD is less hated than SPM so idk how that happened.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
Probably the author's unpopular opinion then. Like how I have the unpopular opinion that PM64 is better than TTYD.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
Uh, you kinda misunderstand the point of the topic. The topic draws parallels between the games themselves and audience reception of it, not the character themselves.
 

Wicked Clown-nak

Too Fat to Release
Well on the topic of Paper Mario's subreddit not having people who don't like Paper Mario, that's kind of obvious. That said, disliking SS and/or CS is a relatively popular opinion on there, the consensus is that the series isn't what it used to be, SPM is more back and forth but I see more that like it than don't. But generally, most criticism of SPM is on the gameplay, and yes there are some folks who don't like it because they don't play the games for the story at all, but that's not very common afaik. Most opinions that criticize the story of SPM tend to not have Paper Mario as one of their favorite Mario series, afaik.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Thus further showing to me that the vast majority of Paper Mario fans haven't played many rpgs outside of it.
 

Rinka Hayami

Koops, King of cowards.
And I can safely say broadening your scope of games definitely helps you to see things in a more objective way. If you only care about Mario of course you'll do everything in your power to defend the series. When you experience other games that you might like better you start looking at the full picture. I'm not saying that people who exclusively play Paper Mario have bad judgement, but playing more games definitely can help in some areas.

I mean I'm the guy who used to say that Koops was this one character I can relate to the most, and then I started playing many other things and look at me now.
 

Princess Mario

✨Mushroom Kingdom's fabulously glittery plumber✨
Thus further showing to me that the vast majority of Paper Mario fans haven't played many rpgs outside of it.
I still think a big portion of the Mario fanbase have just a blind spot because it's so easy to stick to the Nintendo world. I'm one of them or at least I used to be. But still, Mario fans don't really get it when I say like Mario needs a loot-based RPG or something, an RPG that isn't turn-based.
 

Mcmadness

The idiot who puts things in the wrong board.
Not sure how one would even make a loot shooter Mario game but sure, why not.
 

Redshift

Enjoying dinners at 9:00 PM
Not sure how one would even make a loot shooter Mario game but sure, why not.
Well there's an Xcomlite-Mario game and a dancing Mario game, Mario can pretty much do anything.
 

Starfire

Alien superhero princess
I know this thread has been dead for a little bit, but I spotted another interesting comparison: between pre-SM64 SM games and the 3D games.

Super Mario Bros. / Super Mario 64 - Highly revolutionary, remembered as a great classic in gaming history, popular even for decades after, contains hilarious glitches, popular with speedrunners.

Super Mario Bros. 2 / Super Mario Sunshine - Seen as kind of weird and not as good as the first or third, but not really hated per se and still enjoyed by a fair deal of people. Those who do like it sometimes call it underrated.

Super Mario Bros. 3 / Super Mario Galaxy - Doesn't go down the same route as the second one but took stuff that was good from the first two and expanded on that in many ways, very popular also.

Super Mario Land / Super Mario 3D Land - (has land in the title), first on a handheld (excluding remakes), kind of similar to them but also has its own differences, not really as popular as those on home consoles but still seen as a decent game.

Super Mario Land 2 / Super Mario 3D World - sequel to the previous one, improves graphics, levels, and music, expands on the gameplay and refines some of the mechanics. More liked than the first one but still not as much as the first or third.

Super Mario World / Super Mario Odyssey - takes a traditional formula and makes a (according to most) excellent job of it, bringing many new things in as well. Basically like what happened with the third but its another huge leap forward and makes an even better game.

Interesting but again there are some differences. Like SMW came before SML2 wheras SMO came after SM3DW.
 
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