Between Miyamoto and the Koopalings being Bowser's kids, NOE chose...

[Mister Wu]

A funny detail already wrtitten in the talk page of the Koopalings in the Wiki, but still good for a funny discussion.

Before starting, let's contextualize this story a little:
We all know that Miyamoto officially acknowledged the retcon of the original relationship between Bowser and the Koopalings in the newer games in an interview to Game Informer in 2012:
[quote author=Shigeru Miyamoto]Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bowser's only child is Bowser Jr., and we do not know who the mother is.[/quote]
However NOJ was a bit too zealous and even modified the story of Super Mario Bros. 3 in the Encyclopedia Super Mario Bros. so that it is no longer explicitly told that the Koopalings are Bowser's children.

But what about NOE? Well, the first shot arrived with the new page of Super Mario Bros. 3, updated after it was released on Wii U Virtual Console:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/NES/Super-Mario-Bros-3-279558.html

Mmmmhh, offspring, arent' they? But after all, this is pretty much the text that was before so maybe they just kept it and called it a day.

This was a bit more troublesome:

"Forgive us... father. I mean, of course... Master Bowser!"

But still, a single language, all the other use either Bowser instead of father or even just have Morton saying "M... Master Bowser" like the Japanese version.


And now this comes:
this week it has been announced that Super Mario Advance 4 was coming to the European Wii U Virtual Console. I knew something interesting could happen to the description of the game in the official site so I immediately copied the text that was on the UK page before the update:

[quote author=Nintendo UK]It's the best-selling video game of all time. It's acclaimed by gamers the world over as the best Mario game ever made. And now it's portable.

Super Mario Bros. 3 was a milestone in gaming upon its original release for the NES in 1990, and still holds the world record for game sales. Now it comes to Game Boy Advance with new features galore. Boasting vastly improved graphics and sounds over the NES original, plus never-before-seen special features, Super Mario Bros. 3: Super Mario Advance 4 will give everyone a chance to relive - or experience anew - a true Miyamoto masterpiece.

Strap yourself into the red or green dungarees of Mario or Luigi as they jump, bounce, slide, fly and swim their way across eight enormous worlds. Their mission? To battle the forces of Bowser and his troublemaking kids, who have turned all the local kings into animals.

What makes Super Mario Bros. 3 so special? Is it the pixel-perfect controls? Could it be the superb level design, packed with secrets and surprises? Or maybe it's the cool power-ups like the flying Tanooki Suit, sea-swimming Frog Suit, or the whirlwind-summoning Warp Whistle?

Super Mario Bros. 3 also includes the original Mario Bros. game for some multiplayer madness. Simply connect to any of the other three Super Mario Advance games and take part in fun frolics for up to four players.[/quote]

And now, what is the current text? Here it is (http://www.nintendo.co.uk/Games/Game-Boy-Advance/Super-Mario-Advance-4-Super-Mario-Bros-3-267398.html):

[quote author=Nintendo UK]Strap yourself into the red or green dungarees of Mario or Luigi as they jump, bounce, slide, fly and swim their way across eight enormous worlds. Their mission? To battle the forces of Bowser and his troublemaking kids, who have turned all the local kings into animals.

What makes Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 so special? Is it the pixel-perfect controls? Could it be the superb level design, packed with secrets and surprises? Or maybe it's the cool power-ups like the flying Tanooki Suit, sea-swimming Frog Suit, or the whirlwind-summoning Warp Whistle?

Boasting vastly improved graphics and sounds over the NES original, plus never-before-seen special features, Super Mario Advance 4: Super Mario Bros. 3 will give everyone a chance to relive - or experience anew - this classic game.[/quote]

So, they kept saying that the Koopalings are Bowser's kids and removed the reference to Miyamoto instead...

P.S.: I know, first of all SMB3 was codirected by Miyamoto and Tezuka so the sentence had to rephrased anyway, and I am almost sure that this wasn't a stab at Miyamoto, still it's quite funny to see this, because it's pretty much the only part of the text that was rewritten...

 

[freakworld]

NOE is a bunch of rebels

 

[Mcmadness]

You know, Miyamoto wasn't the one who made the choice to retcon the koopalings status as Bowser's kids. He was just the one who said that was how the dev teams looked at it.

"Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bower's only child is Bowser Jr. and we don't know who the the mother is."

That is the exact quote. Nothing about it says that he forced this change.

 

[Mister Wu]

You're right to point that out, I am pretty sure this retcon is actually the result of a team of designer and more in general, of people involved in IP management, which is quite a complex matter as it involves decisions on many fronts (such as which characters should be promoted and how, how they should be presented, having a constant contact with third party using you own characters so that they use it properly and so on..). Miyamoto was speaking on behalf of the whole team, and we don't know how much his involvement in this decision was, if any at all.
By the way, this also reveals that these decisions might have regional variations as well.

EDIT: I modified the original text so that it's clear that Miyamoto acknowledged, adding the proper quote; saying that only he is responsible of this retcon when we don't know anything about it is not correct.

 

[Glowsquid]

maybe Satoru Shibata didn't take the retcon well

 

[MnSG]

Even though it's confirmed that the Koopalings aren't related to Bowser, I'd still think of them as Bowser's "stepchildren".

 

[Borp]

They're his nephews and niece. All cartoon villains need nephews.

 

[Walkazo]

Or they were his adopted/foster kids and then he disowned them once he got himself a natural son.

You know, Miyamoto wasn't the one who made the choice to retcon the koopalings status as Bowser's kids. He was just the one who said that was how the dev teams looked at it.

"Our current story is that the seven Koopalings are not Bowser's children. Bower's only child is Bowser Jr. and we don't know who the the mother is."

That is the exact quote. Nothing about it says that he forced this change.

I'd still bet it was his idea originally, even if everyone else went along with it, like with PM:SS and whatnot.

 

[Mister Wu]

Or they were his adopted/foster kids

I think if NOJ were to remove the retcon, they probably would go that way.
NOE is more "extreme" and still keeps that "offspring" and translations thereof, and if you were asking yourself this, yes, Nintendo of Germany uses a translation of the "offspring" term just because they want to be at the forefront yet again...

and then he disowned them once he got himself a natural son.

Interestingly, this is what the added details in the lines of the European versions of Paper Jam want to suggest (except that the Koopalings themselves are considered natural children), at least implicitly except in the case of the German version that went a bit too far and definitely is supporting this hypothesis through Morton's reveal and Bowser Jr. that says "my dad" in front of Roy.
If Color Splash will have talking Koopalings with a decent number of lines (wishful thinking at the moment...) I think I will do the same comparison done for Paper Jam to see if even in this case they add details to the lines that tell us something about their familiy relationships!

 

[Magikrazy]

I don't have Paper Jam, but I think OP is looking too much into a line that to me seems to be a throwaway joke not meant to be taken seriously.

 

[NSY]

why don't nintendo just kill off the koopalings. i think they are just pointless

 

[Magikrazy]

They did, but the fans wanted them back.

It's an endless cycle of bitching.

 

[Mister Wu]

I don't have Paper Jam, but I think OP is looking too much into a line that to me seems to be a throwaway joke not meant to be taken seriously.

Well, the whole first post isn't meant to be taken seriously (if you really can), it's just funny to see NOE continuing with this attitude that includes this addition of "interesting" lines to the Japanese script of Paper Jam! As I said before, a watered down version of this line is actually present in many European translations as well (and in the Northern American one, by the way) but not in the Japanese version. It's not that it is particularly important (if you read carefully, I too underline this!), and surely NOE is far from publishing bios in which they state that the Koopalings are Bowser's natural children (which itself is a trivial matter, since we're talking about characters of video games, and the Super Mario series itself is clearly not about story first and foremost).
But while NOJ really follows what has been said by Miyamoto, down to ridiculous details (because the detail removed from the Encyclopedia is just one word, the rest is unaltered!), NOE just doesn't care, and pretty much does the exact opposite, leaving the details and even letting the translators add new ones just because!

why don't nintendo just kill off the koopalings. i think they are just pointless

Already did that! From 1994 to 2003, and that was because AlphaDream used them for Superstar Saga. Otherwise it would have been from 1994 to 2009. I'm happy that you had 14 years of "delight" (I'm counting out 2003), and I'm happy that now I'm having have some years of "delight" too!

 

[MnSG]

why don't nintendo just kill off the koopalings. i think they are just pointless

Ironically, the Koopalings come back, and yet the Kremling Krew gets the cold shoulder. The Kritters do appear in Smash 3DS's Smash Run, but K. Rool hasn't been involved in any games since Mario Super Sluggers, with his last appearance being nothing more than a mere trophy cameo in Smash 3DS / Wii U.

 

[Mister Wu]

why don't nintendo just kill off the koopalings. i think they are just pointless

Ironically, the Koopalings come back, and yet the Kremling Krew gets the cold shoulder. The Kritters do appear in Smash 3DS's Smash Run, but K. Rool hasn't been involved in any games since Mario Super Sluggers, with his last appearance being nothing more than a mere trophy cameo in Smash 3DS / Wii U.

Don't talk me about that, my friends and I played the 3 Donkey Kong Country a lot in the childhood... has this anything to do with Rare now being fully owned by Microsoft? Did Nitendo obtain also the perpetual rights to use the Kremlings back then?

 

[MnSG]

Nintendo does own the rights to all the Donkey Kong characters, which was shown in the past Mario spin-offs, but I think part of the issue of not bringing back the Kremling Krew has to do with Retro Studios wanting to give Donkey Kong different antagonists, which came to pass in the form of the Tiki Tak Tribe, followed by the Snowmad Tribe.

The Koopalings were fortunate that they came back from the grave, but the Kremling Krew needs more than just Smash 3DS to help them bounce back.

 

[Ray Trace]

why don't nintendo just kill off the koopalings. i think they are just pointless

I mean, they are pretty pointless but that's mostly because Nintendo's incredibly lazy with them

 

[Mister Wu]

Nintendo does own the rights to all the Donkey Kong characters, which was shown in the past Mario spin-offs, but I think part of the issue of not bringing back the Kremling Krew has to do with Retro Studios wanting to give Donkey Kong different antagonists, which came to pass in the form of the Tiki Tak Tribe, followed by the Snowmad Tribe.

The Koopalings were fortunate that they came back from the grave, but the Kremling Krew needs more than just Smash 3DS to help them bounce back.

I cannot blame Retro Studios for their approach, as it is an approach I like (the Snowmads are pretty awesome, in my opinion). Still, even though the Kremlings' design is different from that of other Mario characters, I think that the spin-off games (and sometimes the Donkey Kong Country games) could still use them. K. Rool would be pretty nice at the Olympic Games as a power character.

 

[Occasionally Returns]

It's official, disowned all of his kids except for

 

[Mister Wu]

It's official, disowned all of his kids except for

Well, not yet "official", as it's likely just one German translation team wanting to have some fun and plenty of surprised German Youtubers, unless NOE definitely wants to go crazy with the next games/videos/official bios/whatever featuring the Koopalings because "what we wrote, we wrote" and "what is seen can't be unseen".

P.S.: this time, the SMA4 Wii U eShop description mentions Miyamoto like the old site, but also leaves the "Bowser and his troublemaking kids" intact, unlike the Wii U SMB3 eShop description that completely removed all the lines where the Koopalings were stated as Bowser's children (at least in Italy). Looks like NOE is just not caring anymore about what was said on this matter...

 

[Occasionally Returns]

It's official, disowned all of his kids except for

Well, not yet "official", as it's likely just one German translation team wanting to have some fun and plenty of surprised German Youtubers, unless NOE definitely wants to go crazy with the next games/videos/official bios/whatever featuring the Koopalings because "what we wrote, we wrote" and "what is seen can't be unseen".

P.S.: this time, the SMA4 Wii U eShop description mentions Miyamoto like the old site, but also leaves the "Bowser and his troublemaking kids" intact, unlike the Wii U SMB3 eShop description that completely removed all the lines where the Koopalings were stated as Bowser's children (at least in Italy). Looks like NOE is just not caring anymore about what was said on this matter...

I'd say a majority of the people don't care. DashieGames in one video where he played as Ludwig(a.k.a. Wolverine Snuggle-toof Bitch-Ass) chose the Bowser flag to "represent his father" or something along those lines. I also remember having a Mario conversation about a year ago where someone said "Bowser has too many kids." I also once said "Are Bowser's kids also star children?" in a conversation about the star children in Mario with two guys and nobody commented on that. There's other people who still refer to the koopalings as Bowser's kids pretty commonly.

 

[Mister Wu]

It's official, disowned all of his kids except for

Well, not yet "official", as it's likely just one German translation team wanting to have some fun and plenty of surprised German Youtubers, unless NOE definitely wants to go crazy with the next games/videos/official bios/whatever featuring the Koopalings because "what we wrote, we wrote" and "what is seen can't be unseen".

P.S.: this time, the SMA4 Wii U eShop description mentions Miyamoto like the old site, but also leaves the "Bowser and his troublemaking kids" intact, unlike the Wii U SMB3 eShop description that completely removed all the lines where the Koopalings were stated as Bowser's children (at least in Italy). Looks like NOE is just not caring anymore about what was said on this matter...

I'd say a majority of the people don't care. DashieGames in one video where he played as Ludwig(a.k.a. Wolverine Snuggle-toof *bleep*-Ass) chose the Bowser flag to "represent his father" or something along those lines. I also remember having a Mario conversation about a year ago where someone said "Bowser has too many kids." I also once said "Are Bowser's kids also star children?" in a conversation about the star children in Mario with two guys and nobody commented on that. There's other people who still refer to the koopalings as Bowser's kids pretty commonly.

I am pretty sure Ludwig is the true successor of the Star Child Bowser, and this will be used to create an interesting story in the next 3D movements Super Mario about Ludwig who must save the universe but doesn't want to (think about the Super Paper Mario scene where Mario always answers no), Bowser Jr. that discovers everything abouth his half brothers and sister (because the mother is different) when he tries to be the hero that saves the day (he's convinced to be the successor of the Star Child) and becomes mad at the father and... oh wait, I am talking about a complex story in a Super Mario game...

P.S.: of course, with Koizumi as producer, the next Super Mario Galaxy might have an interesting story (not this one as the retcon won't be removed anytime soon, of course), but the recent Super Mario games (Super Mario galaxy 2 included) and the explicit statements by Miyamoto make it clear that I should not expect the story aspect to be important in the upcoming Super Mario games, and frankly as far as they keep developing the gameplay and the level design and they don't necessarily rely on worn-out ideas, I'm fine with that.

To reply to your point: even in the case of the Paper Jam playthroughs at least two Youtubers, one Italian and one German, called the Koopalings Bowser's children or even Bowser's offspring in the case of the German Youtubers, and on Miiverse you see many more people that just consider them Bowser's children, I'm wondering if the availability of sources of information like the Super Mario Wiki where it is clearly and unambiguously shown that from the start the Koopalings were introduced as Bowser's children and in general give a better view of the whole matter plays a role (after all, this attitude of Nintendo is more a Western thing, in Japan pretty much nothing is said about them anymore, not even that they are siblings, although the scans of the manuals such as that of SMA4 are pretty clear on the matter...)...

 

[Mister Wu]

Sorry to bump this old thread with a double post, but really, NOE's laziness about the matter is so terribly funny and blatant...

When the Minecraft Super Mario Mash-Up came out, it seemed that NOE finally returned toward a more in-line-with-NCL stance on the matter:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2016/May/Two-beloved-video-game-franchises-collide-in-the-Super-Mario-Mash-Up-Pack-for-Minecraft-Wii-U-Edition-1106071.html

[quote author="Nintendo UK"]even troublemakers like Bowser, Wario and all seven of Bowser's minions[/quote]

Bowser's minions again!

But no, 5 years of eShop, discounts on some games and just one line to describe each game. Guess what line they used to describe Super Mario Bros. 3, both Wii U and 3DS version:

http://www.nintendo.co.uk/News/2016/June/Nintendo-eShop-sale-Nintendo-eShop-5-Year-Anniversary-Sale-1111775.html

[quote author="Nintendo UK"]Mario and Luigi are called back into action when Bowser and his kids turn the kings of the Mushroom World into animals and steal their royal magic wands.[/quote]

The first line of the official page, and again no care to update that famous part! 8)

Spoiler

And, of course, Nintendo Italia is using that famous line too and in the Mash-Up pack announcement page they aren't even using the NSMB series' Scagnozzi di Bowser (Bowser's Minions), but rather the good old Bowserotti instead, which is a direct translation of the original 「コクッパ」 term...
no need to say how much I like Nintendo Italia's approach on the matter! 8)