Are newer characters not wanted in spinoffs?

SiFi

SiFi

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SiFi
That seems to be the trend from what I can see. It's all 'why the sprixie princess' or 'why nabbit' or 'why rosalina'. If being a key character in a key game doesn't earn you a spot in future spinoffs, what does? I don't recall any complaints like this when Yoshi was added to SMK's roster but I swear if that happened today people would be like 'wtf that's too sudden you can't have yoshi in like one or two games and then treat him like he's just as important a character as luigi or toad'


tfw you're about to hit 'post' even though you're not sure you've made every point you've wanted to make or not phrased it clearly or
 
The comparison to Yoshi isn't the best since Super Mario World was still pretty early in Mario's life cycle, and Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.

In my opinion, Rosalina also had her chance to appear in more games right after Galaxy, but she strangely didn't; it took her around 3D World for her to be in a lot of things bar Paper Jam.
 
Dr. Mario said:
The comparison to Yoshi isn't the best since Super Mario World was still pretty early in Mario's life cycle, and Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.
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Okay if not Yoshi in SMK then what about Petey in Double Dash or did people actually complain about that like they do nowadays?
In my opinion, Rosalina also had her chance to appear in more games right after Galaxy, but she strangely didn't; it took her around 3D World for her to be in a lot of things bar Paper Jam.
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Yeah but she was in MKW and I think that was a good enough way of establishing she wasn't just a one-shot character and could make further appearances.
 
SiFi said:
Dr. Mario said:
The comparison to Yoshi isn't the best since Super Mario World was still pretty early in Mario's life cycle, and Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.
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Okay if not Yoshi in SMK then what about Petey in Double Dash or did people actually complain about that like they do nowadays?
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Oh, people did complain about Petey Piranha being in everything.

SiFi said:
In my opinion, Rosalina also had her chance to appear in more games right after Galaxy, but she strangely didn't; it took her around 3D World for her to be in a lot of things bar Paper Jam.
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Yeah but she was in MKW and I think that was a good enough way of establishing she wasn't just a one-shot character and could make further appearances.
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Mario Kart Wii is prominent, but people were wondering where she went in Super Sluggers, Sports Mix, Tennis Open, and a few others. Mario Kart Wii and 7 weren't quite enough IMO.
 
Dr. Mario said:
SiFi said:
Dr. Mario said:
The comparison to Yoshi isn't the best since Super Mario World was still pretty early in Mario's life cycle, and Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.
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Okay if not Yoshi in SMK then what about Petey in Double Dash or did people actually complain about that like they do nowadays?
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Oh, people did complain about Petey Piranha being in everything.
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Bullshit
 
What the heck? Why is Jumpman in Donkey Kong Jr? He's only been in one game and that literally came out last year.
 
I'm pretty sure the answer is not because of the new characters being in spin-offs, it's because they omitted various veterans instead and that people want to scapegoat the newcomers for the characters' absences. Take Mario Kart 7 for example. Honey Queen is a new character, one of the most recent ones, yet many people hate her because she's an anomaly and a weird choice, a unique roster choice. Developers chose her for a heavyweight because they wanted a heavy character who wasn't "rowdy" (aside from Rosalina). But guess who was also gone from that game? Waluigi, Toadette, Bowser Jr., Birdo, and other fan favorites, hence why people direct their frustration towards Honey Queen.

For Mario Kart 8, the absence of such characters made people hate the Koopalings and the characters who are actually new to the Mario franchise (but then again, crap like Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina kinda deserve fan contempt).

And same thing with Ultra Smash. It's not just Sprixie Princess being a bad inclusion, it's because of the overall skimpy character roster and other veterans that were omitted.

You see my point here?
 
Baby Luigi said:
I'm pretty sure the answer is not because of the new characters being in spin-offs, it's because they omitted various veterans instead and that people want to scapegoat the newcomers for the characters' absences. Take Mario Kart 7 for example. Honey Queen is a new character, one of the most recent ones, yet many people hate her because she's an anomaly and a weird choice, a unique roster choice. Developers chose her for a heavyweight because they wanted a heavy character who wasn't "rowdy" (aside from Rosalina). But guess who was also gone from that game? Waluigi, Toadette, Bowser Jr., Birdo, and other fan favorites, hence why people direct their frustration towards Honey Queen.

For Mario Kart 8, the absence of such characters made people hate the Koopalings and the characters who are actually new to the Mario franchise (but then again, crap like Pink Gold Peach and Baby Rosalina kinda deserve fan contempt).

And same thing with Ultra Smash. It's not just Sprixie Princess being a bad inclusion, it's because of the overall skimpy character roster and other veterans that were omitted.

You see my point here?
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I definitely see the point(hate because they replace existing characters that have an appeal), except for a little detail in your example: the Koopalings were introduced 25 years earlier and Mario Kart 8 is the first game where they became playable characters...

EDIT: typo...
 
Well I know that about the Koopalings, but they're technically considered "new" playable characters, since that's their playable debut
 
Baby Luigi said:
Well I know that about the Koopalings, but they're technically considered "new" playable characters, since that's their playable debut
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Ok, I thought the meaning of "new" in the OP message was different, but I am likely wrong and again these are details, as the core of the message is clear and is probably one of the biggest reasons for so much undeserved hate. Frankly, I don't know how much the fault is of the "new" characters rather than problems of other kinds (e.g. development time in newer games is greater due to the many details required for modern 3D models and due to problems in creating somewhat realistic physics, while the deadlines are tight, thus forcing a cut in the character rosters originally planned and resulting in these "strange" choices of characters).
 
I don't hate when new characters are added. I rather like Nabbit, for example.

But when they just start making things up is when we have a problem, especially when it's just a reskin of an existing character.
 
I don't mind new characters as long as the ones I like playing as (Waluigi, Wario, Luigi, etc) are still in the game and if the new characters aren't made up bullshit reskins like Scarlet Plasmodium character.

The lack of Waluigi in Mario Kart 7 was literally inexcusable.
 
Dr. Mario said:
Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.
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wrecking crew immediately comes to mind. taking a quick look at the games list on the wiki golf and pinball came before even that but idk if those would count as mario spin offs as much as games that mario happened to appear in. i guess you could say that of wrecking crew too if you were being super strict since it doesn't have mario in the name but dr. mario, mario teaches typing, and even yoshi's eponymous game all came before smk. i don't think this debunks your argument fundamentally i just think you made this up. that said i also disagree that super mario kart being 1 decade after mario started and the spinoffs people complain about being 2 or 3 decades after makes a fundamental difference
 
Threek said:
I don't hate when new characters are added. I rather like Nabbit, for example.

But when they just start making things up is when we have a problem, especially when it's just a reskin of an existing character.
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This isn't automatically a problem (after all, we got Waluigi and Toadette that way), but yeah.
 
Magikrazy said:
Threek said:
I don't hate when new characters are added. I rather like Nabbit, for example.

But when they just start making things up is when we have a problem, especially when it's just a reskin of an existing character.
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This isn't automatically a problem (after all, we got Waluigi and Toadette that way), but yeah.
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Yep, I think the reference was toward "characters" such as Pink Gold Peach/Cat Peach that clearly are just alternate versions of existing characters, while Waluigi and Toadette were intended as different characters from the start.
 
I just hate when they cut a bunch of veterans and add a bunch of awful new characters like the Koopalings/Baby Rosalina/Pink Gold Peach like Mario Kart 8 did.
 
Raigh said:
I just hate when they cut a bunch of veterans and add a bunch of awful new characters like the Koopalings/Baby Rosalina/Pink Gold Peach like Mario Kart 8 did.
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If Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash is of any indication, expect this to happen more frequently with newer games (especially if the NX is a home console). Well, at least the Koopalings aren't "new" at all (they come from another millenium)... and Larry Koopa in Ultra Smash (and in future Mario Tennis games) would be 100% fitting:

 
One character I feel really bad for getting left-out a lot is Birdo. Mario Tennis on the N64 solidified the idea for me Birdo was important to the spin-offs as Yoshi's complimentary character. Yet, especially recently, she's been M.I.A.
 
Birdo was never a highly popular character. I wouldn't be surprised if she got the axe. I'm not saying that I would want her to receive the axe though
 
Uniju said:
Dr. Mario said:
Super Mario Kart is generally considered the first Mario spin-off.
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wrecking crew immediately comes to mind. taking a quick look at the games list on the wiki golf and pinball came before even that but idk if those would count as mario spin offs as much as games that mario happened to appear in. i guess you could say that of wrecking crew too if you were being super strict since it doesn't have mario in the name but dr. mario, mario teaches typing, and even yoshi's eponymous game all came before smk. i don't think this debunks your argument fundamentally i just think you made this up. that said i also disagree that super mario kart being 1 decade after mario started and the spinoffs people complain about being 2 or 3 decades after makes a fundamental difference
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If you're going to write blocks of words, I'd prefer if you'd capitalize. It's much easier to read that way.

Anyhow, note my qualifier "generally considered", and I've actually thought about Golf and Famicom Grand Prix and those other earlier spinoffs while writing that, but Super Mario Kart is a landmark game in both the Mario franchise and video gaming itself, and it and its series's popularity is arguably second to mainstream Mario platformers. To add to my statement, it started the trend of Mario multiplayer party games which Mario is also really famous for. The rest of the other early spinoffs don't quite reach that aspect.

Raigh said:
She's one of the only trans characters represented in video games too, so it would suck if we never see her again.
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My problem with Birdo is that she's just not a character I like. Her design is ugly, her transgenderism is censored, and her personality is like a flirtatious wanna-be romance queen or something. I don't like really anything about her. I still want her in the games since there's really no reason to leave her out like that. Birdo is a unique-looking character, to say the least.
 
I think Vivian is definitely a much better representation (aside from the English version), but Birdo is okay, plus her transgenderism was only censored in SMB2 where it basically said the most offensive thing you could say to a transgender woman ("he thinks he's a girl, but is really a boy). I also find Birdo slightly cute.
 
Birdo's transgenderism always felt shoehorned in to me for a quick joke (or at least what they thought was a joke back in 1988), and the only reason they still bring it up is because you don't really forget the first transgender character in video games, even if it was just a cheap "lol she is actually a he" thing.
 
It wasn't "quick" in the slightest. They milk it for all its worth in everything he appears in in Japan.
 
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