2-D Mario games could learn a thing or two from DKC.

GalacticPetey

GalacticPetey

Donkey Kong
I'm gonna reiterate what I posted on reddit.

I recently got Tropical Freeze as free gift from Club Nintendo, and I've been loving it. Aside from a little bit of DCKR, I hadn't really played any DK games until now. Just got to the fourth world. Thinking about the game led to me comparing it to the Mario 2-D games.

I'm gonna be completely honest, this blows games like New Super Mario Bros. U out of the water. I think future 2-D Mario games should take a page or two from DKC's book. In this post, I'll mostly be comparing it to Mario's Wii U 2-D platformer, NSMBU.

My first point is the difficulty. The New Super Mario Bros. games have always felt too easy. Tropical Freeze has challenging levels, but I want to be challenged. The satisfaction after beating a tough level is extremely rewarding. It's also not cheap difficulty. It's genuine challenge and I only have myself to blame when I die, not the game.

Aesthetically, NSMBU pales in comparison. The NSMB games have gotten into this dull cycle of Grass, Desert, Ice, Water, Forest, Mountain, Sky, and Volcano worlds always in that order. Tropical Freeze's levels all feel unique. Many reviewers have talked about how someone could reference any moment in the game, and you would be able to picture that exact level. Who could forget that Lion King-y level in World 3 where everything is moving to the music? NSMBU had something similar with the painting background in world 5, but that was only one level.

The character, boss, and enemy models are also more expressive and lively in Tropical Freeze. Boss fights are also much more intense and fun as opposed to jumping on the Koopaling's head 3 times. Also, Rambi > Yoshi.

While I like the music in NSMB, it gets kinda tiring to hear those same "bahs" over and over. I don't know if Tropical Freeze had orchestrated music, but it just has a better sound to it. Part of that is the amazing David Wise returning from the original games.

One more thing. I like how we had different villains this time. Would I love the Kremlings? Sure. But the Snowmads are cool too. What I would like to see is Bowser taking a break from being the villain for awhile. Why not bring someone like Wart back? Or even have a new enemy. There's only so many times I can stand pushing a button to kill Bowser, then running away from giant Bowser to push another button. NSMBU fixed this a little bit with its final battle, but I still wanted more.

I know this makes it sound like I hate NSMBU, but I don't. It's still some fun Mario platforming. I just feel like after being introduced to DKC, Maio could stand to up its game a little bit. Now, I haven't played 3D World yet, so maybe that fixed some issues. Though that's not entirely a 2-d platformer. I played 3D Land and liked it well enough, so who knows. What do you guys think?

Also, vote Dixie or K. Rool for Smash DLC!
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Thoughts?
 
Most of these I can agree with. I understand why Mario is generally easy though as it's made with younger folk in mind.

And while I like the snowmads, ultimately they just made me wish K.Rool came back so I'm not crazy on new villains for Mario platformers.
 
I'd take the shovel knight approach to Mario bosses personally.
 
Less ''waitey''then the TF ones

 
I never played Donkey Kong Country, but I feel 2D Mario platformers need to take cues from Kirby and Rayman as well. Mostly, the better water controls, the lack of lives, making Mario feel more acrobatic than a jumping wooden plank like he is right now, the instant respawns, more combat options, and the aesthetics. I just feel Mario platformers need something more than just platforming to keep my interest since my interest is waning on them. I like Mario platformers, but it's not my favorite platformer or games in the Mario series (I don't think it has ever been anyway, though).
 
Agree 100%. Similar things be said about the new Rayman games as well, especially those musical levels (Black Betty level is the best level in gaming, no question)
 
Mario Party Σ said:
I never played Donkey Kong Country, but I feel 2D Mario platformers need to take cues from Kirby and Rayman as well. Mostly, the better water controls, the lack of lives, making Mario feel more acrobatic than a jumping wooden plank like he is right now, the instant respawns, more combat options, and the aesthetics. I just feel Mario platformers need something more than just platforming to keep my interest since my interest is waning on them. I like Mario platformers, but it's not my favorite platformer or games in the Mario series (I don't think it has ever been anyway, though).
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I think the way Mario moves right now is perfectly fine, at least for the 2D games.
 
Chiaki Nanami said:
(Black Betty level is the best level in gaming, no question)
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I concur
 
I disagree.
 
I didn't play Tropical Freeze so I can't express an opinion about this game.
However, while I still like the recent 2D Mario platformers, I find the older ones better.
Particulary, I consider Super Mario Bros. 3 (or replace it with Super All Stars since it has it) and Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island the best platformers ever made, far better than the Donkey Kong Country games. The level design in these games is great.
Now Mario Maker is a very interesting 2D Mario game who is coming, if the level editor is complete enough to replicate all the levels made by Nintendo in previous games.
 
or mario maker can make brand new levels

but the quality of the levels is nearly sorely dependent on how good the creator is and i really hope its good, like hopefully maxis levels of good.
 
Finally, I think Mario also needs to take cues from 2D indie platformers as well.

Mcmadness said:
I think the way Mario moves right now is perfectly fine, at least for the 2D games.
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My complaints is while that the platforming precision is great, Mario needs to feel mobile while moving through the air. Maybe he can use a slightly floatier physics engine, or maybe he should do more twirls through the air because, well, it's fun watching Mario do those things. Since the game focuses more on precision and the stomping, I think the enemy sprites need to be bigger to prevent those instances where you fall a pixel short and you power down. Mario needs the momentum like in Rayman when he stomps on enemies.

The water levels are always something to be desired though, hope you guys can disagree. Again, Mario should take cues from Rayman Origins/Legends when it comes to swimming controls.

I'd perhaps like a game where there is combat similar from Super Mario 64. I just think Mario needs more combat in general.
 
He looks plenty acrobatic to me especially when triple jumping.

Hell when I get a good run going it's like I'm bounding across the levels like nobody's business.
 
Mcmadness said:
He looks plenty acrobatic to me especially when triple jumping.

Hell when I get a good run going it's like I'm bounding across the levels like nobody's business.
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Well, he still feels mighty stiff when normally jumping. There are hardly any instances where he feels like he's all graceful and that. Mario in Smash Bros. feels less like a plank, too, but to be fair, it's mainly his double jumps. I think he shouldn't need a big distance to build up speed either, like how it feels in the New Super Mario Bros. games. I'm thinking about Spelunky, which feels a lot like Mario to me for some reason, and I'm thinking how the platforming works compared to New Super Mario Bros.... hmm....
 
well if you say so, I like the NSMB physics, especially for NSMBU as it has that spin move that can prolong Mario's time in the air.
 
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