The (series) pages kind of sucks, don't they?

[Glowsquid]

I see several obvious problems with the (series) pages as they are now. They are:

1: Redundant, unfocused coverage. Of course Mario is going to show up in the Character section of multiple series and of course Donkey Kong (the game) is going to be listed on both the Mario and Donkey Kong series pages because reasons, but c'mon; If all the Donkey Kong Country games are going to be listed on the Donkey Kong (series) page anyway, then what's the point of having a separate Kondey Dong Country series page in the first place?

2: The partner series is space-wasting verbiage; just throw a "see also" link to the other series page instead of having a paragraph that basically amounts to "Wario Land is a series of gaems that stars Wario doing stuff, a guy who was in a Mario game before I think. It has a lot of games and stuff."

3: The game descriptions by far and large, sucks. Most messilly attempt to describe story, gameplay and release history in too much detail for the small space available and too little detail to be actually informative, resulting in ugly walls of text that fail spectacularly at being informative or interesting.

I mean, look at this bullshit;

Donkey Kong Country is a game for the Super Nintendo Entertainment System. Released in 1994, it is known for being the first game to use pre-rendered sprites, creating a 3D effect throughout the game. It is the first game in the Donkey Kong Country series, with three sequels, Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest, Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble!, and Donkey Kong Country Returns. It also has a similar semi-sequel, titled Donkey Kong Land. The game stars Donkey Kong, along with his buddy, Diddy Kong, in his debut, as the two travel across Donkey Kong Island in search for the Banana Hoard. The game was remade for the Game Boy Color in 2000, and was also remade again for the Game Boy Advance in 2003. The two remakes feature some new Bonus Games, the ability to save in the overworld, and several more new elements. Donkey Kong Country was also released on the Wii's Virtual Console in 2006, being the same as the original version.

Dr. Mario was the first game in the Dr. Mario series; it was released for the NES in 1990. The game brought the basic concept of the series to the players' attention immediately, as they would start the game off having to reorganize falling Megavitamins in order to eradicate viruses from the screen. Once all viruses have been eliminated, the player would move on to the next level. As the game progressed, each level rose in difficulty, providing more viruses for the player to eliminate and less space to maneuver the Megavitamins in. Dr. Mario was ported and remade many times after its original release.

n June of 1985, Nintendo released Wrecking Crew in Japan for the Famicom Disk System, then later that year in other parts of the world for the NES. The concept of the game revolved around Mario (and Luigi, if a second player were to join the game) who were in the middle of a demolition site. While at the site, they had to break down all of the concrete walls with their hammers found in each level. The player would encounter several enemies, none of which could be defeated with the hammer that Mario (or Luigi) would carry. Rather, they would have to trap enemies under steel drums. The game also featured a new character: Foreman Spike, who would occasionally appear to outdo Mario at breaking down the concrete walls, and who could push Mario off of ledges. The game also featured a custom level creator, the first game in the Mario series to ever do so.

Donkey Kong Country 2: Diddy's Kong Quest is the second Donkey Kong Country game for the Super Nintendo. It is the sequel of Donkey Kong Country and is also the predecessor to Donkey Kong Country 3: Dixie Kong's Double Trouble! and Donkey Kong Country Returns. The game has a Game Boy pseudo-sequel, Donkey Kong Land 2, that was released one year after the original. It was released in 1995 and stars Diddy Kong, as he and his partner, Dixie Kong, make their way through Crocodile Isle to save Donkey Kong from the Kremling Krew. In 2004, a remake of the game was made for the Game Boy Advance. It features several differences, including the addition of photographs and extra DK Coins. Later in 2007, the game was remade on the Virtual Console to play on the Wii system.

Take any random entry on any (series) page and they're likely to be like that. If that's all series page are going to be made of, what's the point?

S'yeah, thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

 

[Xiahou Ba]

Well there's a reason I placed the rewrite tag in the Mario (series) article: the page is just a MESS. It doesn't need to cover every single flippin' Mario game in existence, ESPECIALLY if the said Mario game is part of the sub-series (why the --- is Mario Party 3 covered here, it should be in the Mario Party series article). The entire page needs a huge overhaul before I take that rewrite tag off this page. It doesn't help that it's written flowerly and the like.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

3: The game descriptions by far and large, sucks. Most messilly attempt to describe story, gameplay and release history in too much detail for the small space available and too little detail to be actually informative, resulting in ugly walls of text that fail spectacularly at being informative or interesting.

Take any random entry on any (series) page and they're likely to be like that. If that's all series page are going to be made of, what's the point?

S'yeah, thoughts? Comments? Criticism?

Wait wait wait, I'm working on the WarioWare series pag (yes I am) and I have done descriptions, partially for the Mario & Luigi (series) page.. Does it fall in the same trap as your examples? And if it does, what do you suggest I do to improve it?

I also have a crapton of questions regarding the Donkey Kong (series) article:

Why is coverage pertaining mostly to Donkey Kong Country? Where is Mario, the Mini Marios, the Diddy Kong Racing characters? Sure, the Mario vs. Donkey stuff is in its own series article, but same for Donkey Kong Country. Why is Mario vs. Donkey Kong part of the Donkey Kong series; isn't it part of the Mario series as well, so why is the navigation template just the Donkey Kong series?

...

 

[GBA]

I see the need for a series pages to provide an overview of their games and list them (though as Glowsquid mentioned, perhaps not so extensively with the summaries, it looks horrible), but the 'notable' characters/items/shit tables seriously need to go or be trimmed, we have separate character articles for a reason. Perhaps having summarised paragraphs would be better, so in the case of the Mario (series) page, paragraphs about mechanics, power-ups, blocks, coins, enemies and the like would be better instead of huge extensive lists of redundant shit.

(Also on the topic of the Mario series page, I absolutely agree with BL, there's no need to list every bloody game that features Mario in existence, and it brings home the point of redundant crap more than any other page. I mean really, we list Toadsworth, E. Gadd and Gooper Blooper as notable characters, wtf)

A case-by-case thing would probably work better than an overarching system imo, they all seem to be of varying levels of shit, look at this in comparison to this, for example.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

If all the Donkey Kong Country games are going to be listed on the Donkey Kong (series) page anyway, then what's the point of having a separate Kondey Dong Country series page in the first place?

I don't know if this question is rhetorical. I suppose the separate "Konkey Dong County" is to provide more focus on the Konkey Dong Country series. But the Donkey Kong series page's coverage acts like Konkey Dong Country is the only game worth noting. Regarding the Donkey Kong series page... I..I... have no idea how to approach this. I'd like some more focus on nonDonkey Kong Country stuff, but not making sub-series pages feel redundant. In the meantime, we do have to summarize who are the major players in the Donkey Kong series, so maybe we can have character descriptions for the major playable characters and the major villains? Again, though, where are mah Mario, Mini-Marios, and Pauline, dammit!?

Oh, by the way, I don't really like how characters are divided by "protagonist" and "antagonist", because characters change their roles. You can argue that they are usually protagonists or usually antagonists. Okay, fine. But in the Donkey Kong series page, counting more than just a few games covered there, Donkey Kong is consistently both a major protagonist (Konkey Dong Country and its sister series) and a major antagonist (Donkey Kong, Game Boy Donkey Kong, and most Mario vs. Donkey Kong games). The protagonist/antagonist divide doesn't work really well there.

I'd like to suggest a few things to improve the Donkey Kong series page.

• Add Mario as a character
• Move anyone that isn't Donkey Kong, Diddy Kong, Dixie Kong, or King K. Rool into their respective sub-series page. This is the Donkey Kong series, not the Konkey Dong Country series, after all. Yes, move the species there as well.
• Items section bloats the page, considering the pretty broad scope of the Donkey Kong series. Recurring items should go into the respective sub-series page.
• Ditch the partner series section.
• Add Mario as a character

The rewriting and stuff come later. I'm more concerned about how the page looks for now. But anyway, does anyone find my suggestion too bold, or is this the right start of the right approach?

P.S. in the title, it should be "suck", not "sucks".

 

[Glowsquid]

Wait wait wait, I'm working on the WarioWare series pag (yes I am) and I have done descriptions, partially for the Mario & Luigi (series) page.. Does it fall in the same trap as your examples? And if it does, what do you suggest I do to improve it?

To be honest, yeah? Look at these entry;

WarioWare: Touched! uses mainly the touchscreen controls of the Nintendo DS. Wario, who has stolen a Gameboy Advance and a Gameboy Advance SP, trips and drops the two systems into a manhole. The Sewer Guru appears with the two systems and the Nintendo DS, asking Wario which one he dropped. Wario fights the Sewer Guru and takes all the systems. After figuring how the Nintendo DS works, he realizes the potential it has for profit and markets the system. WarioWare: Touched! introduces a few new characters: Ashley and Red, the Thang Family, Mike. Dr. Crygor also, from now on, has a full helmet rather than half a helmet (WOW). As in WarioWare: Twisted!, each character microgame set is based on certain controls rather than an aesthetic theme (for instance, Mona's microgames involve making slicing movements on the touch screen).

The first spinoff in the series, Game & Wario does not follow the traditional format of the WarioWare games. The typical microgames have been replaced by a set of more elaborate minigames which take advantage of the Nintendo Wii U's Gamepad, although microgames themselves do appear in one minigame. Most characters also undergo a minor redesign, with the different art style of the game. In the story, Wario sees the advertised Wii U on the television screen. Wario decides to market games for the console and invites his friends to help him. Eventually, his game, Wario's Pirates, is a success in Toy Express, but his fans mistaken him for the villain and blast him away. Wario crash lands in Club Sugar, meeting his employees, and they agree to go bowling.

It's silly to spend so much space describing the (nonexistent) plot, and it's even sillier to have all of it. These things are supposed to be overview.

Game & Wario eschews the microgame format in favour of a selection of single-player and multiplayer minigames themed around the WarioWare cast. The game uses various functions of the Gamepad, such as [stuff]

The entries on the M&L page ironically have decently-sized premise-summaries, but absolutely no information on the gameplay changes throughout the series. Something like "Mario & Luigi: Partners in Sodomy ditch the BP system in favour of [stuff]" (or w/e, I haven't played these games) would be great.

I also have a crapton of questions regarding the Donkey Kong (series) article:

The suggestion I made on http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Wario_%28series%29 was to remove the listings that conflict with the subseries pages and have the main "series" pages list one-offs (or two-offs - I don't think it'd be productive to have a series page for Paon's DK peg-climbing games, or considering Jungle Beat a "series" because of the two medal redemption games). This once-and-only once policy may pose the occassional problem (is Barrel Blast a Kondey Dong spinoff or a Kondey Dong Country spinoff?), but I'd wager to say the distinction is clear-cut in most cases.

but the 'notable' characters/items/shit tables seriously need to go or be trimmed, we have separate character articles for a reason. Perhaps having summarised paragraphs would be better, so in the case of the Mario (series) page, paragraphs about mechanics, power-ups, blocks, coins, enemies and the like would be better instead of huge extensive lists of redundant shit.

yeah.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

Thanks for the bluntness. I've removed most instances of the plot on the series page and removed some pointless details. The sections describe mostly the main draw of each game and new characters introduced now.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

The suggestion I made on http://www.mariowiki.com/Talk:Wario_%28series%29 was to remove the listings that conflict with the subseries pages and have the main "series" pages list one-offs (or two-offs - I don't think it'd be productive to have a series page for Paon's DK peg-climbing games, or considering Jungle Beat a "series" because of the two medal redemption games). This once-and-only once policy may pose the occassional problem (is Barrel Blast a Kondey Dong spinoff or a Kondey Dong Country spinoff?), but I'd wager to say the distinction is clear-cut in most cases.

What characters should the main "series" page list, though? Are we talking about game listing or the every listing?