My stance on the New Super Mario Bros. games

[chillv]

People say that these games don't introduce much new, and basically do nothing but overused nostalgia. However, I don't feel that, and there is a very good reason why.

First off, New Super Mario Bros, was the first Super Mario Bros, game I ever played. The only real mario game I played before that was Super Mario Sunshine. I had an N64, but never had any Nintendo or Mario games on it besides Super Smash Bros. As a result, I appreciate each installment more than people normaly would because I my opinions on these games are not influenced by games previous SMB games like Super Mario Bros. 3 or Super Mario World since I never really played any of those games.

I have Super Mario World and Super Mario Bros. 2 on virutal console but they are just collecting virtual dust because their controls and physics aren't as good as the New Super Mario Bros. games' and are way too difficult that I don't want to come back to them. In fact, me having trouble getting used to the controls and outdated physics don't help with the game's difficulty. And to be honest, most retro Nintendo games that I have gotten turned off of are because of these main aspects. I can't get used to the physics or controls, and it doesn't help that the game is challenging. Heck, I even played the Japanese version of Super Mario Bros. 2, and the game being very hard wasn't even the problem, the controls and outdated physics were.

From my experience with old Super Mario Bros. games, they have those exact two short coming that make them unenjoyable for me and completely turn me off from even progressing in any of them. However, people who grew up with these games obviously won't even notice those short comings since controls and physics were not like they were now on during the time and they have gotten used to them from playing them for so many years.

Now, people complain about these games not introducing a lot of new ideas. However, because the New Super Mario Bros. series is the only Super Mario Bros. games I am exposed to, the features they introduce are enough to excite me.

People complain about the games recycling out stuff like baby yoshis and the raccoon suit. However, the people who say that grew up with the games where that stuff originated from unlike me. As a result, I like when they do this because it gives me a chance to experience that same feature.

For example, I plan to buy New Super Mario Bros. 2, and the money making powerups are enough to make me want the game, and raccoon suit is great to me since I never got to experience it because I never played Super Mario Bros. 3. New Super Mario Bros. U has the flying squirrel suit that looks very cool by itself. Not only that, there are the returning baby yoshis. This gives me a chance to experience this feature since I got turned off of Super Mario World, meaning I never got to use them.

To be continued... (I'm tired, I will write more later)

All in all, what I'm really trying to say is, I believe because I didn't grow up with the older Super Mario Bros. games like most fans, appreciate the New Super Mario Bros. games more than most people do. And because of that, I think I understand why most people don't like these games very much while I do.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

I believe what you're talking about is "nostalgic immunity".

Joshscorcher explains it better than I can.

 

[chillv]

I believe what you're talking about is "nostalgic immunity".

Joshscorcher explains it better than I can.

Yep! That's exactly what I am refering to. I like the New Super Mario Bros games because the have modern physics, better controls and recycled features that I never got to experience or new features that are enough to excite me for the game.

However, these games aren't so good to people who have played previous Super Mario Bros. games because it gives them the feel of "been there, done that".

Whenever I play the previous Super Mario Bros. games, I notice a lot outdated controls and physics that are hard to get used to, and their challenge doesn't really help either. However, people who grew up with those games won't even notice the outdated controls and physics since they have gotten used to them from playing it for so many years.

And like I said, I am not really finished with what I have to say and will be adding on.

 

[Ray Trace]

I don't think New Super Mario Bros. is immune to criticism just because the game is a firstie to another person. I'm pretty sure the game reusing assets like crazy with barely any change for a sequel still counts as a valid critic.

 

[Dorayaki]

Critics are inevitable when generic playable characters exist.

 

[chillv]

I don't think New Super Mario Bros. is immune to criticism just because the game is a firstie to another person. I'm pretty sure the game reusing assets like crazy with barely any change for a sequel still counts as a valid critic.

You are right, but be aware that this thread is mainly focused on why "I" like or appreciate the New Super Mario Bros. games more "compared to others" and how they have influenced me to not like the old Super Mario Bros. games very much.

I personally believe since the New Super Mario Bros. was the first 2D mario game I ever played, I like and appreciate it and its sequels more than other people would. This is because my thoughts and expectations on these games aren't influenced by retro Super Mario Bros. games but by previous New Super Mario Bros. games.

Also, because the older Mario games have old controls and physics that I am not used to unlike the New Super Mario Bros. games, I find them less enjoyable and get turned off of them altogether.

Even though the New Super Mario Bros. games don't change that much about themselves, they seem to do enough that makes me like them. Reusing stuff does not feel like overusing nostalgia for me, but instead giving me a chance to enjoy something I wasn't able to because I couldn't back then.

 

[Mario4Ever]

I believe what you're talking about is "nostalgic immunity".

Joshscorcher explains it better than I can.

He keeps using the phrase "bad design choices" but doesn't actually mention any. All I got out of that is that he thinks that if a game does something better than an older game in the same genre/developed by the same company, then the developers of the older game fucked up.

 

[Ray Trace]

You are right, but be aware that this thread is mainly focused on why "I" like or appreciate the New Super Mario Bros. games more "compared to others" and how they have influenced me to not like the old Super Mario Bros. games very much.

I personally believe since the New Super Mario Bros. was the first 2D mario game I ever played, I like and appreciate it and its sequels more than other people would. This is because my thoughts and expectations on these games aren't influenced by retro Super Mario Bros. games but by previous New Super Mario Bros. games.

Also, because the older Mario games have old controls and physics that I am not used to unlike the New Super Mario Bros. games, I find them less enjoyable and get turned off of them altogether.

Even though the New Super Mario Bros. games don't change that much about themselves, they seem to do enough that makes me like them. Reusing stuff does not feel like overusing nostalgia for me, but instead giving me a chance to enjoy something I wasn't able to because I couldn't back then.

I like New Super Mario Bros. DS and Wii, but afterwards....the welcome got worn out.

 

[chillv]

I like New Super Mario Bros. DS and Wii, but afterwards....the welcome got worn out.

but is New Super Mario Bros. your first game in the Super Mario Bros. series?

 

[Ray Trace]

I think it was the first one I played through 100%, since at the time, I wasn't interested in Mario platformers because they weren't ridiculous multiplayer Mario party games.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

I just see it as that if we had both SMB and NSMB series at the same time, of course NSMB would be preferred. I also don't think it is all that fair to compare two game's graphics from different generations. I mean, SMB was the norm for the graphics back then with the 8-bits, while NSMB of course has the modern technological stuff, so of course NSMB is going to have the better is going to have the better graphics, but SMB - in relevance to the graphics at the game - were pretty superior to the NSMB, who's graphics are not the best art and character design that Nintendo has made for Mario.

That said, NSMB (the game) itself is not bad. It was a great introduction for 2006 to have on your DS because it really brought back the classics to the latest generation and allowed people to somewhat have the old SMB in a new vision. It was a decent game that had the multiple worlds with each different theme, the cool level designs, some new enemies, and a variety of different bosses.

Then NSMBW came out, and it was like "oh, yeah, bringing 4 player to the game". It also gave the Koopalings a return after their long absence. Some people were starting to feel like it might be a bit of a rehash, but I mean, brought new power-ups and new things to the table, and was definitely a good game. Plus with Yoshi, it made the game have some more uniqueness than the original.

But then NSMB2 came out, and it was like "wtf?" It was literally NSMB, but with coin showers and nothing else. It reused the music that the series have been milking enough already, had nothing truly interesting to it other than the coins, and just was almost a rehash of the original NSMB game. What made matters worse was that NSMBU came out with it as well. For NSMBU though, they actually did make changes to the game to have it somewhat fresh from the others. Brought Baby Yoshi's, had tons of Super Mario World references in it, some of the levels had some great direction to it (and that one level in World 5 with the background drawn like that one painting), and there was definitely some more challenge to the levels. And for once, you're actually heading back to the castle instead of trying to go from castle to castle.

The problem arises when all the games basically have the same soundtrack, have little to no differences with character/enemies/item models, little difference with world/background designs, worlds are all themed the same way each time with like maybe a few themes switched around (grass, desert, water, ice, forest, mountain, cloud, lava (though kudos to NSMBU for at least having one world with night levels). Another is the fact that some games are just released too close together, like NSMB2 and NSMBU, and it makes them sacrifice time and energy on other games that we would rather have then constantly getting these games.

For me, it's the fact that they are good and fun playing through them, but once you beat the game, there is really no replay value in it, meaning that it's just a game that I will play once, maybe twice, and then be done with it. I would rather have games that I want to play many times, like Mario Galaxy or Mario Party (8 and below) or a new Mario sports game that we haven't had in a long while.

I do feel that the NSMB games get a bit of unneeded criticism just because of the release times and style, and people being against it when the original SMB series was a lot like that as well. However, a lot of is deserved as well, as NSMB should follow more in the SMB style, meaning that they should not take place in the same world/area (like how there was Subcon), should not have the same world layout (include a circus/city and maybe a fire/ice combo world if you are going to have worlds). There are just a lot of things that can improve the NSMB series from being seen as just rehashes and more of unique games.

 

[Toad Eightyfive]

I believe what you're talking about is "nostalgic immunity".

Joshscorcher explains it better than I can.

^Essentially this. You stick by what you grow up with. If you're used to the NSMB controls more than the original design, you naturally will gravitate towards the newer games.

Critics are inevitable when generic playable characters exist.

Do you have to turn every thread into your campaign for a playable Candy Kong?

 

[banjonator1]

^Essentially this. You stick by what you grow up with. If you're used to the NSMB controls more than the original design, you naturally will gravitate towards the newer games.

but none of us in this thread (except maybe m4e) "grew up" with anything older than World or Sunshine. I don't know how old the twins or bmb are, but I don't think they're any older than 18.

hey

also

getting a nes from your grandmaw when you were little and never playing it doesn't count as growing up with it either

Now, on topic, I have loved EVERY single Mario game I have played. It probably stems from the fact that my first two games were the SMW remake for GBA and Sunshine. Then a few years later I got a ds lite with nsmb. I was exposed to three mario games with totally different controls and styles.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

He keeps using the phrase "bad design choices" but doesn't actually mention any.

I thought the bad design choices of Sonic Heroes speak for themselves, like the fact that you can easily die when you're just trying to land on a rail.

All I got out of that is that he thinks that if a game does something better than an older game in the same genre/developed by the same company, then the developers of the older game fucked up.

Not necessarily. Sometimes it just means that the way games are design has changed over time, like how you open a door in Banjo Kazooie (by shooting a button) would be different than opening a door in Super Mario Galaxy (probably by pushing a switch).

Different doesn't necessarily mean worse... it just means that some people will be used to the old way while others are used to the new way.

^Essentially this. You stick by what you grow up with. If you're used to the NSMB controls more than the original design, you naturally will gravitate towards the newer games.

but none of us in this thread (except maybe m4e) "grew up" with anything older than World or Sunshine. I don't know how old the twins or bmb are, but I don't think they're any older than 18.

um

i grew up playing SMW and Yoshi's Island on the SNES, and DK64

i distinctly remember the christmas where we got a gamecube

'course i'll be 18 in a few more months

 

[Toad Eightyfive]

^Essentially this. You stick by what you grow up with. If you're used to the NSMB controls more than the original design, you naturally will gravitate towards the newer games.

but none of us in this thread (except maybe m4e) "grew up" with anything older than World or Sunshine. I don't know how old the twins or bmb are, but I don't think they're any older than 18.

BMB's in college, so I'd guesstimate he's 18/19 or so.

Also World counts as an "original design" game, IMO.

 

[Dorayaki]

Critics are inevitable when generic playable characters exist.

Do you have to turn every thread into your campaign for a playable Candy Kong?

Is it you're dreaming or it's actually a discussion thread for New Donky Kong Country?

Then NSMBW came out, and it was like "oh, yeah, bringing 4 player to the game". It also gave the Koopalings a return after their long absence. Some people were starting to feel like it might be a bit of a rehash, but I mean, brought new power-ups and new things to the table, and was definitely a good game. Plus with Yoshi, it made the game have some more uniqueness than the original.

But then NSMB2 came out, and it was like "wtf?" It was literally NSMB, but with coin showers and nothing else. It reused the music that the series have been milking enough already, had nothing truly interesting to it other than the coins, and just was almost a rehash of the original NSMB game.

Totally agree. The real problem began with NSMB2, not NSMB1 or NSMBWii. Forget about story part which should be the easier to way to make each SMB game unique, the thing I hate the most is making four titles in such a short period of time. I don't really think Nintendo had enough time to consider what level, world, music and enemies they can change , improve and add. Multiplayer is the only valuable thing that allow us to replay (though with wrong character selection), but that's not for handhelds. Seeing the somewhat success with SM3DW, I really think NSMBU should had been announced after that title.

I wonder if the progress from Donkey Kong Country Return to Freeze Tropical would be much more than the four NSMBs.

 

[Shyghoul]

^Essentially this. You stick by what you grow up with. If you're used to the NSMB controls more than the original design, you naturally will gravitate towards the newer games.

but none of us in this thread (except maybe m4e) "grew up" with anything older than World or Sunshine. I don't know how old the twins or bmb are, but I don't think they're any older than 18.

hey

also

getting a nes from your grandmaw when you were little and never playing it doesn't count as growing up with it either

the only Mario games I played when I was younger were SMB, SMB2, SMB3

didn't get an actual "current generation game" till I was 10

 

[Daniel Dyce]

You are right, but be aware that this thread is mainly focused on why "I" like or appreciate the New Super Mario Bros. games more "compared to others" and how they have influenced me to not like the old Super Mario Bros. games very much.

I personally believe since the New Super Mario Bros. was the first 2D mario game I ever played, I like and appreciate it and its sequels more than other people would. This is because my thoughts and expectations on these games aren't influenced by retro Super Mario Bros. games but by previous New Super Mario Bros. games.

Also, because the older Mario games have old controls and physics that I am not used to unlike the New Super Mario Bros. games, I find them less enjoyable and get turned off of them altogether.

Even though the New Super Mario Bros. games don't change that much about themselves, they seem to do enough that makes me like them. Reusing stuff does not feel like overusing nostalgia for me, but instead giving me a chance to enjoy something I wasn't able to because I couldn't back then.

I like New Super Mario Bros. DS and Wii, but afterwards....the welcome got worn out.

I actually enjoy everyone but the ds one (I think it's boring)

 

[Dr. Javelin]

the ds one was only fun because of the battle mode

that was awesome

 

[Daniel Dyce]

Also it had some pretty awesome minigames. I played the shit out of the poker minigame.

 

[Dr. Javelin]

OH YEAH I REMEMBER THAT ONE

 

[NSY]

Also it had some pretty awesome minigames. I played the shit out of the poker minigame.

so did I

 

[GalacticPetey]

Same.

 

[Baby Mario Bloops]

I'm 18 for the record. Just turned 18 3 months and 5 days ago.

Anyways, I grew up in the 64 era, so I didn't play anything before Mario Kart 64 and SM64 and OoT 64 and MM64. All but MM64 I think are not that great, so I'm not a big nostalgic person anyways. I really don't care if it's from a long time ago or if it is recent; if I like it, I like it, and if I don't, then I don't. So honestly, I do believe that NSMB is superior to SMB, even though SMB is basically the foundation for Mario. However, I do think that NSMB is just at a disadvantage due to NSMB2+ making us feel like it's just rehashes (though I really do like NSMBU a lot).

 

[Ray Trace]

I'm 18 for the record. Just turned 18 3 months and 5 days ago.

TAKE THAT I'M OLDER THAN YOU by several months