chibizombie
"Headshot" <<< my favorite quote in any game...
I like to shoot people out of canons does that count as canon?(jk)
Canonicity
- Thread starter Stumpers
- Start date
PaperStriker
I propose for the location going here.
Has Nintendo even said once that SMB is canon?
Or SML2?
Or MP5?
:P
Or SML2?
Or MP5?
:P
The edutainment games and Hotel Mario may not be very well linked to the Marioverse. But then again, they don't contradict anything. Except for Mario being a not silent protagonist. But does that really matter? As a matter of fact, I started to abandon this theory when Toad wasn't used to Mario being so silent in SMRPG, implying that, even if offscreen, this isn't usually the case. Plus, in the Paper Mario games, you can clearly see Mario talking, you just don't know his exact words. And you can make him say things in those games too. And besides, do you really expect the world's smartest Goomba (Until the next game) to fill in for every word Mario says? So in short, it's safest to say that Mario is silent when he chooses to be. Just like Luigi. In all Paper Mario games, he is perfectly capable of a civil conversation (Minus the attention), yet in M&L:SS, he's just as silent as Mario. As for TV, I'm just looking at the least likely thing there is: Mama Luigi. And yet, there isn't a problem, so long as we assume neither the Yoshi in SMW2, nor the Baby Yoshi in YIDS, were THE Yoshi, who was actually born, sometime during SMW. Heck, is there even a THE Yoshi? How do we know that the Yoshi in Mario Party Advance is the same one we see in Mario Kart 64? Some may argue that character personalities from TV series don't match the ones in games. The only one I notice right now is Yoshi's childish and always hungry personality. As well as my rant from before, there's also the possibility he grew up after SMW, as he never had much of a personality then. Then there it is. The matching personality, in a likely canonical game: Game & Watch Gallery 3 and 4. In both, the Cement Factory and Chef games depict Yoshi with an obsessive lust for food. My point is proven further in the former game, in which Yoshi cries if he has not been fed in a while. Then there's the comics. Hmm... Super Mario Adventures is, like Mama Luigi, an adaptation of SMW. However, they contradict each other. I'm going to say both are canon, and either Luigi's Memory isn't so good or he wanted to seem more heroic. But even then, Super Mario Adventrures isn't so accurate itself... Remember, it all started when Mario, the princess and I went to dinosaur land for a vacation, as explicitly stated in the manual and the introduction to SMA2, while in the comic, it starts with the Mario Bros. plumbing at Peach's Castle. Then, there's the fact that, while the Koopalings have a certain personality in the cartoons, it appears to be totally different in the Valiant comics. Mario Vs. Wario comics are OK, they actually provide us valuable information on Wario's backstory. And I really don't see anything wrong with those obscure German comics either, besides their story on Wario's origin. And even then, that's just one story. As for remakes, I only consider them canon if they expand the story, like Donkey Kong '94. When this happens, I rule the original versions out of continuity. The SMB anime is OK, but the Super Mario Armada series is out. So is the Movie. The characters are completely different to the ones we know. Ice capades are also okay.
But that was one pointless rant. If we were to ask Nintendo themselves, they would probably say "It's your decision. That's what we like about Mario. We can do pretty much anything without completely rewriting his history."
And as for DKRDS, it's a sequel.
BANJO BACK ON THE WIKI. And Conker.
But that was one pointless rant. If we were to ask Nintendo themselves, they would probably say "It's your decision. That's what we like about Mario. We can do pretty much anything without completely rewriting his history."
And as for DKRDS, it's a sequel.
BANJO BACK ON THE WIKI. And Conker.
B
Blitzwing
Guest
SiFi said:
So, Wizpig had the brillant idea of redoing the same frickin' thing he did in DKR except that he made some of the things easier?
Wow, Wizpig is a genius to redo his plan twice.
- Thread starter
- #32
We are being conjectural because we're trying to make sense out of an episodic series, similar to a TV show, that happens to have "Holiday specials" and no official timeline, so to speak. So what should we do instead? List out the games in release date order and tell them as individual, unrelated stories? Bowser generally references past defeats, so we know that these stories, if viewed individually, are not standalone. Each story at least needs one other in which Bowser is defeated for it to make sense. I'm trying to make sure we don't remove things that shouldn't be removed because of old prejudice against them started by some nobody on the internet years ago (we're not the first to create this idea).
BTW, Ghost Jam, you missed the point of my comment: 3D had just dismissed my rant by saying I was thinking too much and that the old system worked fine (even if it's incorrect?). "They're games. We're a Wiki. We have the games over here, the systems over here, the remakes over there, and the shows over there, and that movie nobody likes (Stumpers' note: I liked it...) as part of the MarioVerse over THERE." It wasn't to say that my rant was official material. The Marioverse is our own invension, so you can do what you want with it, but when it comes to the actual storyline, that's different.
If you feel I'm beating up on 3D, call me on it, (and in his defense I was way too short) but I was just asking that we look towards official Nintendo references to support theories rather than an unofficial concept of separation.
Ok, my stupid bickering aside, we need to determine canonicity and present a new argument. Let's start easy: is the movie canon? Why or why not?
BTW, Ghost Jam, you missed the point of my comment: 3D had just dismissed my rant by saying I was thinking too much and that the old system worked fine (even if it's incorrect?). "They're games. We're a Wiki. We have the games over here, the systems over here, the remakes over there, and the shows over there, and that movie nobody likes (Stumpers' note: I liked it...) as part of the MarioVerse over THERE." It wasn't to say that my rant was official material. The Marioverse is our own invension, so you can do what you want with it, but when it comes to the actual storyline, that's different.
If you feel I'm beating up on 3D, call me on it, (and in his defense I was way too short) but I was just asking that we look towards official Nintendo references to support theories rather than an unofficial concept of separation.
Ok, my stupid bickering aside, we need to determine canonicity and present a new argument. Let's start easy: is the movie canon? Why or why not?
Stumpers said:
Bowser is not a human thing.
He isn't even a dinosaur.
Lena, Iggy and Spike don't exist.
Daisy wasn't born in an egg.
Yoshi's bigger and can take more weight.
Dinohattan doesn't exist.
The usual setting for the Marioverse isn't an alternate dimension.
Meeting Daisy isn't M&L's first great adventure.
What ARE these "official references" you keep qouting, Stumps?!
All I'm saying is we're getting along fine just keeping the TV shows, the movie, and the remakes seperate. I really consider none of those canon. AT ALL.
I do, however, consider every other Mario game canon. Each one, even Hotel Mario, has a little niche in the huge, worldwide story of Mario.
All I'm saying is we're getting along fine just keeping the TV shows, the movie, and the remakes seperate. I really consider none of those canon. AT ALL.
I do, however, consider every other Mario game canon. Each one, even Hotel Mario, has a little niche in the huge, worldwide story of Mario.
- Thread starter
- #35
First of all, I owe you an apology. Second of all, the official sources are the differences in the quotes attached to the seals (you read about 'em) that render the argument that canonicity based on the original seal null. The second one, I could see very much so.
Okay, and then the others were from Miyamoto (read the interview, the URL is on my first post), where he stated that he fully embraced the concept of making serious changes to fit the form of a movie. He does feel, however, that the reason the movie failed was because it stayed too close to the format of a video game. I used this to say that Miyamoto does not inherently reject (as far as he's made public) alternate forms of media. I'm really not sure who we're assuming does so.
Next up is from Yoshiaki Koizumi, who stated that the Mario series was inherently different from game to game because each was working to create the best experience, and that the storyline never got into the way (something he appreciates about the series). So, basically, inherent differences between two creations, including those between video games or between the games and other mediums, are not inherently condemned by Nintendo. I challenge anyone who approves of our canonicity theory (and that is not a bad position at all - it does as you say work), to prove that Nintendo would ban any form of continuity between games and other forms of media simply because they are other forms or for whatever reason you have. Go too it, 3D!
Okay, and then the others were from Miyamoto (read the interview, the URL is on my first post), where he stated that he fully embraced the concept of making serious changes to fit the form of a movie. He does feel, however, that the reason the movie failed was because it stayed too close to the format of a video game. I used this to say that Miyamoto does not inherently reject (as far as he's made public) alternate forms of media. I'm really not sure who we're assuming does so.
Next up is from Yoshiaki Koizumi, who stated that the Mario series was inherently different from game to game because each was working to create the best experience, and that the storyline never got into the way (something he appreciates about the series). So, basically, inherent differences between two creations, including those between video games or between the games and other mediums, are not inherently condemned by Nintendo. I challenge anyone who approves of our canonicity theory (and that is not a bad position at all - it does as you say work), to prove that Nintendo would ban any form of continuity between games and other forms of media simply because they are other forms or for whatever reason you have. Go too it, 3D!