Author Topic: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances  (Read 591 times)

Lassi

  • Let's shout hooray now!
  • King Bowser
  • *****
  • Pink Cat
  • All animals are friends
    • View Profile
    • Where the wind blows
Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« on: February 05, 2019, 04:16:50 AM »
I know I am going to get a lot of crap for this but yes, I am going to defend this

Fire Emblem's rep count is usually joked about but let me tell you: It all comes down to circumstances

Let's start with of all places, Smash 64, Marth was later reveled to be considered for this game, with the reason for his exclusion due to a lack of premade assets given to secret characters, it is notable that he is the only character that wasn't from a series represented in the game   that we know to be cut and the reason is due to original game low budget opposed to say, a lack of popularity

In Melee, Marth is added and Roy is added as a clone, he was there to promote his game but there might a starting point how he was added, Roy's originates from the canceled Fire Emblem game for the Nintendo 64, then called Ike funny enough, Roy's seiryu and Sakurai are actually aware that was his name once, keep in mind, this wasn't revealed till years later


In 2001, when Melee came out , the anime aesthetic was popular overseas and yet to become a internet punchline, as no
games were released out of Japan, aside those who came across an obscure dub of it's OAV, those who were even interested in Fire Emblem beforehand must had a positive opinion as importing games and the consoles needed to play them was much harder in a world where the internet was limited.

Additionally,  the characters were fun to play as the only other swordfighters were the two Links and they were powerful both in their own ways, hence the series become localized.


With the series leaving Japan and find it's standing on the GBA, it started to become more popular,  Sakurai took note of this

 deiced to put "A new Fire Emblem character" on the list planned for Brawl, the devs for the games suggest Ike, keep in mind, if we go by sales, we would likely get a character from Blazing Sword over him, as both of his games bombed in both Japan
and overseas


Before Smash 4, remakes of Marth's games sale decently, but not enough to save the series from the sales of Ike games, Fire Emblem Awakening is made as a test, do well or go away forever, what do you think happened? Not only did it save the games, but make the series more popular than ever, the game was first came out in 2012, meaning the game came out around the time Sakurai started to make Smash 4 after finishing Uprising, however, it yet to come out of Japan, it must left a pretty good impression for Sakurai to even consider it for a series that would die if it failed.

Marth was an obvious addition from the past two games where it would feel glaring to feel leave out, Ike's games did not do well however Sakurai had no other reason to take him out besides lack of relevance, with Sakurai rather not taking out characters knowing that players would miss them, Lucina was added as a skin for Marth, afterall, she was flat out pretending to be him in her games, with her being added a full slot due to the usual reason clones were added, it was late in development  and she was easy to add as a bonus to make the game seem bigger

Here is why I don't think Sakurai is adding the characters for the sake of adding Fire Emblem characters, with the fallout of Ike's games sales, a failed game that never came to be on the Wii to reinvent the series with Real Time strategy, he would have to be  of  wary adding anyone from the series, regardless Chrom was rejected for Smash 4 and only added to Smash Ultimate as an easy echo due to already having a model, is that he would do add very little to the series, considering FE reps are addressed as "Marths", I think he was becoming aware that people would not simply eat a FE rep for being a FE rep.

Roy was added as DLC as after Mewtwo, he was the most missed character that was in Melee but not Brawl, not to mention that we have proof within Brawl's data that he, the Doc and Mewtwo were the ones to be added next anyways, Corrin I believe was picked over the Inkling for Smash 4 was due to Awakening's success compared to an new series that could go in any direction, otherwise, I believe the Inklings  would be picked over him due to Fate's later split reputation

So, yeah, that's all I got
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 04:26:21 AM by Lassi »
Come back soon and when you do, I have some new surprises in my hat for you
        
 

Moldomré

  • Moldomré Dapzi the Pink
  • King Bowser
  • *****
  • Once, I was BLoF. Now, I am just Moldomré.
    • View Profile
    • Planet Minecraft Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #1 on: February 05, 2019, 08:45:03 AM »
Nothing's wrong with the amount of Fire Emblem characters in general.

It's the amount of sword-wielders that's the problem. There's folks with lances and axes and so far there are only three unique FE characters. One sword wielder can be counted among them (Marth, he's the OG), Corrin (who wields a sword but is also an actual dragon sooo...), and Robin (still wields a sword), whose special attacks make use of his tomes.

Add a lance wielder. I dare you.

Twitter | Ask Thread | Photo by BabyLuigiOnFire

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #2 on: February 05, 2019, 10:09:03 AM »
Ike plays way different than Marth though, so I'd count him as one of the unique characters.

Yes, though, they should have used other weapons. Idk, give Soren a chance (although seeing as he comes from Ike's games, I doubt that would ever come to fruition), or idk...

Problem is most lords and main characters in FE use swords, only exceptions being Ephraim from Sacred Stones, Hector from Blazing Sword (who should've been in Smash actually, sadly Eliwood, Roy's dad comes from the same game and maybe overshadows him) and Micaiah from Radiant Dawn. And Micaiah doesn't even fight much, only using few light tomes and healing. Even then, Ike's games also have very major characters who are royalty of their respective laguz (people who can shapeshift into animals) tribes, and I'm sure they would have provided unique mechanics, since they have a gauge in-game that shows how long they can stay transformed. Their designs are also really cool.

However, I like the presence of the FE cast in Smash. They're really fun, and if it weren't for character bias, I would have Ike as my number one main (of course Lucario and Isabelle have already snatched my heart), and I would've loved the Black Knight as a playable fighter, but him being an assist trophy is also great.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2019, 10:17:07 AM by Isabelle »

Dream Stone Spirit

  • Dry Bowser
  • ******
  • YoshiFlutterJump
  • Fine! I'll be happy to...NOT TELL YOU!
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #3 on: February 05, 2019, 12:37:10 PM »
My main issue with the number of Fire Emblem reps is that it has seven reps (even more than Zelda, and almost as many as Mario and Pokemon), and yet Kirby, a much bigger and more popular franchise than Fire Emblem, is left with only three.  That's just not fair.  Put Bandana Waddle Dee in Smash and then we'll talk.

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #4 on: February 05, 2019, 12:52:17 PM »
To be fair, even if Kirby is a massive franchise, there are just many characters in it who are just not relevant enough. Marx, one of the most memorable characters in the entire series is just a boss. Whereas Fire Emblem not only has a massive amount of characters in the games themselves which makes the amount present in Smash look like nothing, but the characters that ARE in Smash are main characters of their games, these games having marked a certain era of the serie seach. Marth is the most iconic character, Roy represents the GBA era of FE, Ike represents the Tellius games, the only games thus far to feature 3D graphics during map sequences and for a while, the last home console games to date (although with Three Houses coming soon that is subject to change), Chrom, Lucina and Robin, while I think 3 characters from one game is a lot, Awakening was by far the most important game in the series and saved it from dying, and Corrin comes from the best-selling FE to date.

So yeah, all of them are justified, wether you like it or not. They all have a reason to be here.

Dream Stone Spirit

  • Dry Bowser
  • ******
  • YoshiFlutterJump
  • Fine! I'll be happy to...NOT TELL YOU!
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #5 on: February 05, 2019, 01:36:42 PM »
Lucina and Chrom are more justified than Bandana Dee?  Please.  Bandana Dee, who, in the decade since his debut, has become iconic to the very series that Smash is based off of, gets sidelined to the spirits list, while a total of three Fire Emblem one-offs joined the roster in SSB4 alone, plus yet another in Ultimate.  Bandana Dee needed four major appearances and several more supporting roles in the last decade, and he still hasn't gotten in.  Robin is justified despite being a one-off.  Corrin could be justified as well.  But I struggle to see a reason that Lucina and Chrom are justified when Kirby, the one franchise that Smash simply wouldn't exist without, suffers a severe lack of representation.  If that's not unfair than I don't know what is.

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #6 on: February 05, 2019, 01:48:10 PM »
Dude, believe me, I really want Bandanna Dee too, but saying that Lucina and Chrom, while they're kinda unnecessary with Robin already in game, are not justified because they're "one-offs" (which they're not, appearing in many spin-offs after Awakening) shows that you don't really know anything about their game of origin, don't you? Chrom is the main character of Awakening, Robin simply being the avatar that represents you. Chrom should've been in since Smash 4 actually, with this role, and I agree that Lucina could've not been in Smash, but she's just one echo fighter, so what difference does she make and what harm does she do to you?

I'm not saying at all that they're more justified than Bandanna Dee, in fact, I think he's long overdue for a spot at this point, but it's wrong to say that these characters don't have any merit just because you don't know anything about them. Kirby should get a lot more representation, but I don't blame FE for that lack of reps, because then again, they have a well-deserved representation, especially in these recent years. Why else would we get the Killing Edge as an item, Tiki and the best FE character Black Knight as assist trophies, Chrom and a bunch of new songs?

Dream Stone Spirit

  • Dry Bowser
  • ******
  • YoshiFlutterJump
  • Fine! I'll be happy to...NOT TELL YOU!
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #7 on: February 05, 2019, 01:56:57 PM »
Fair enough.  I'd trade Lucina for Bandana Dee any day (well, I kinda can't because Lucina's an echo, but whatever), but good to know that Chrom actually has some merit.  And you're right, I don't know too much about Fire Emblem, lol.

LeftyGreenMario

  • Do not show the embarrassing CPU scores during the battle.
  • Donkey Kong
  • *******
  • R.I.P. Walkazo December 16, 1991 - March 27, 2016
    • View Profile
    • RationalWiki
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #8 on: February 05, 2019, 02:28:06 PM »
Doesn't matter how much you spin it, Corrin sucks and is a bad choice for DLC. He is an advertisement, product placement, for some game in the future, bad and he is the only new first party for the DLC line up. The disappointment is well deserved. While I don't think he should get cut, he shouldn't have been added in the first place and saturate the roster with Fire Emblem.

Shygul

  • Nikaido Saki
  • Donkey Kong
  • *******
    • View Profile
    • my new website plz check it out and share on facebook
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2019, 01:02:00 AM »
all of the fe reps are good additions because i like them

Alex95

  • NIWA Nut
  • Wiki Administrator
  • Dry Bowser
  • ****
    • View Profile
    • Power Master Games
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2019, 01:11:34 AM »
I don't have a problem with the current FE characters, but I do wish there was more variety and less Marths. I've said this before, Chrom could've used Lances.

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2019, 10:25:49 AM »
Wait he can use lances?

Well that's now another instance of a lord using something that is not a sword, which adds even more to the fact that they could easily do that without looking through the secondary characters!
« Last Edit: February 06, 2019, 10:28:02 AM by Isabelle »

GalacticPetey

  • Donkey Kong
  • *******
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #12 on: February 06, 2019, 11:17:53 AM »
The problem with Chrom using lances is that his sword is his main weapon and is very iconic. It’s like making Link wield the megaton hammer instead of the master sword. It’d be really weird.

Alex95

  • NIWA Nut
  • Wiki Administrator
  • Dry Bowser
  • ****
    • View Profile
    • Power Master Games
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #13 on: February 06, 2019, 11:54:57 AM »
The problem with Chrom using lances is that his sword is his main weapon and is very iconic. It’s like making Link wield the megaton hammer instead of the master sword. It’d be really weird.

I was hoping for a Link that used a different set of items, and one that immediately came to mind was the Link from A Link Between Worlds. His collection of wands would fit all four specials.

But we got the absolute cutest Zelda from that game, so that's a plus :P

Wait he can use lances?

Chrom can use Lances upon promotion, but Project X Zone 2 shows him using Lances anyway in his base class. If they can stretch that, so can Smash.

I mean, other characters have moves that contradict their game origins :mario:

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #14 on: February 06, 2019, 12:14:31 PM »
Now that Ithink of it though Ike using axes or hammers like he can in Radiant Dawn in Smash kinda irks me, so I guess I know why they didn't give the lance to Chrom.

Even then, the weapon argument applies to Hector, very obviously a popular FE pick for Smash. You could say Eliwood would be in before him, but now that I think of it, him being Roy's dad, they could just be skins of each other and have Hector be his own character.

Anyway while we soeak of Fire Emblem...

I just love how blatantly this game spoils the Black Knight's true identity.

Shy Guy on Wheels

  • Definitely on Wheels
  • King Bowser
  • *****
  • Octagon?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #15 on: February 06, 2019, 12:50:53 PM »
Oh don't worry, Smash is really good at keeping secrets.

Mumkhar's enhanced form, Mecha Fiora, and who Cereza is being mentioned in Bayonetta's tips (though I've never played Bayonetta so I can't confirm if this is a spoiler) are all just examples of how Smash handles spoilers for its series.

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #16 on: February 06, 2019, 01:21:18 PM »
I mean I am not bothered by that spoiler, of all spoilers, since I knew beforehand about it, but I mean, even when the game is like 12 years old now, a game that builds up upon what happened in the game that came 2 years before it mind you, and reveals the frickin' Black Knight's true identity in the final chapter of the game that no one would've seen coming due to their irrelevance in the previous game, and keep in mind that this game in question did not sell that well compared to other games in the series (In fact, it's the second worst-selling as far as I know)...

Yeah that's so bad it's hilarious

Magikrazy

  • Donkey Kong
  • *******
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #17 on: February 06, 2019, 06:25:05 PM »
i dont know much about fire emblem so i already dont care for most of these characters, but what i do know is that the games have a weapon triangle system that consists of swords, lances, and axes. plus, a few characters are horse riders. where are any of those characters in smash? im glad at least characters like robin and corrin have a little more than just a sword, but i wanna see one of those horse riders in the next smash, preferably with a lance or something.
🦀🦀MAGIK IS GONE🦀🦀

LeftyGreenMario

  • Do not show the embarrassing CPU scores during the battle.
  • Donkey Kong
  • *******
  • R.I.P. Walkazo December 16, 1991 - March 27, 2016
    • View Profile
    • RationalWiki
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #18 on: February 06, 2019, 06:29:46 PM »
A horse rider would be a Fire Emblem character I'd use, I wouldn't be lying to myself. It'll be the closest thing I get to a playable horse in Smash.

a furry

  • Yes, furry... but only one the first level. Not going down deeper in hell, ain't I?
  • Shine Sprite
  • ******
  • Koops
  • Creatures with thin things on their skin I guess?
    • View Profile
Re: Fire Emblem and Smash: A victim of circumstances
« Reply #19 on: February 06, 2019, 11:29:29 PM »
Oh well, guess we're gonna have to fetch ourselves any Jagen then.

I would have said Titania but She comes from Ike's game so she doesn't have a shot