THE MEGA BRAWL MINES (Lounge Thread)

If I may offer some mid-game feedback, I've noticed activity has been slowing down from both the players and host, and I'm thinking the designed gameplay loop may be responsible. What's been created here is what I'll call an "always on" game - the players are expected to be actively participating in the thread, and the host is expected to be available regularly to respond to player input in a timely manner. There doesn't seem to be any time limits in this game, so those expectations could remain in place for quite a while. That's a lot of strain on a host and a big commitment for the players as well (one that, I'll add, isn't what was signed up for since the gameplay loop was changed from what was in the sign-up thread. For what it's worth, the playerbase here seems to be receptive to the change, and it's understandable for your first time hosting with an untested game format to boot). I'm not sure this is sustainable, and interest (or at least the ability to remain committed) already seems to be waning on both ends, to the point that there's been multiple days where the game isn't really running and no communication beforehand.

Usually in forum games that require the host to be consistently present for the game to progress, "on" phases will have established time limits and breaks where other facets of gameplay take over or there's an intermission period while the host works behind the scenes. Using AAAA as an example with a comparable game design, only 1/4 days in a phase cycle required this active engagement from players and the host. Players knew they had 24 hours to investigate, and then there was effectively a break for 72 hours. You'll see this in other formats too like KG. The only successful "always on" game I've seen is Investigations, which sets out with clear expectations of how long the game will run for and when the host will be available to respond (and is, notably, much shorter!).

If you'll allow me to make some suggestions, this is probably what I would do with the game in its current state. Do with it what you will.
  • Bring back something like the originally planned gameplay loop, so the players and host have some break time. I think the exploration and interaction with the map can mostly remain as-is, but put a time limit on those phases to incentivize progression. (The lack of any urgency is part of what's slowing things down, IMO.) Boss encounters can be moved to a separate phase, letting them mark the end of a floor, although players should still be able to return to previous floors to take care of unfinished business. I would cut random enemy encounters entirely, they mostly seem to just be a side distraction?
  • I feel like the combat could perhaps be more engaging. From my encounter with the Jealous Bass, it seems like there's a "more HP = more challenging" thought process at play, but in practice it felt like I was just slowly chipping away at a damage sponge (there needs to be really good gameplay to pull this off and I'm not sure if entirely text-based gameplay can handle it in general). To be fair, I did design a character that wasn't combat-oriented, but there's apparently nothing in the environment I can use to my advantage so I'm pretty much out of luck unless my teammates voluntarily hop in - but then if they do that they're locked into the fight and can't make any progress elsewhere until it's over. At the very least, moving boss battles to a separate phase would allow for more interesting team collaboration without having to sacrifice progress elsewhere.
  • If nothing else, a list of active and completed quests in the OP would be nice. At this point I've completely lost track if there's any specific goals I can be making progression towards.

I hope you don't take this too harshly - I like what you've made here and there's some pretty cool ideas in play. I really want to see this game be able to come to some form of conclusion and not just quietly fizzle out.
 
Waluigi Time said:
To be fair, I did design a character that wasn't combat-oriented, but there's apparently nothing in the environment I can use to my advantage so I'm pretty much out of luck unless my teammates voluntarily hop in - but then if they do that they're locked into the fight and can't make any progress elsewhere until it's over.
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Sorry WT
 
Waluigi Time said:
If I may offer some mid-game feedback, I've noticed activity has been slowing down from both the players and host, and I'm thinking the designed gameplay loop may be responsible. What's been created here is what I'll call an "always on" game - the players are expected to be actively participating in the thread, and the host is expected to be available regularly to respond to player input in a timely manner. There doesn't seem to be any time limits in this game, so those expectations could remain in place for quite a while. That's a lot of strain on a host and a big commitment for the players as well (one that, I'll add, isn't what was signed up for since the gameplay loop was changed from what was in the sign-up thread. For what it's worth, the playerbase here seems to be receptive to the change, and it's understandable for your first time hosting with an untested game format to boot). I'm not sure this is sustainable, and interest (or at least the ability to remain committed) already seems to be waning on both ends, to the point that there's been multiple days where the game isn't really running and no communication beforehand.

Usually in forum games that require the host to be consistently present for the game to progress, "on" phases will have established time limits and breaks where other facets of gameplay take over or there's an intermission period while the host works behind the scenes. Using AAAA as an example with a comparable game design, only 1/4 days in a phase cycle required this active engagement from players and the host. Players knew they had 24 hours to investigate, and then there was effectively a break for 72 hours. You'll see this in other formats too like KG. The only successful "always on" game I've seen is Investigations, which sets out with clear expectations of how long the game will run for and when the host will be available to respond (and is, notably, much shorter!).

If you'll allow me to make some suggestions, this is probably what I would do with the game in its current state. Do with it what you will.
  • Bring back something like the originally planned gameplay loop, so the players and host have some break time. I think the exploration and interaction with the map can mostly remain as-is, but put a time limit on those phases to incentivize progression. (The lack of any urgency is part of what's slowing things down, IMO.) Boss encounters can be moved to a separate phase, letting them mark the end of a floor, although players should still be able to return to previous floors to take care of unfinished business. I would cut random enemy encounters entirely, they mostly seem to just be a side distraction?
  • I feel like the combat could perhaps be more engaging. From my encounter with the Jealous Bass, it seems like there's a "more HP = more challenging" thought process at play, but in practice it felt like I was just slowly chipping away at a damage sponge (there needs to be really good gameplay to pull this off and I'm not sure if entirely text-based gameplay can handle it in general). To be fair, I did design a character that wasn't combat-oriented, but there's apparently nothing in the environment I can use to my advantage so I'm pretty much out of luck unless my teammates voluntarily hop in - but then if they do that they're locked into the fight and can't make any progress elsewhere until it's over. At the very least, moving boss battles to a separate phase would allow for more interesting team collaboration without having to sacrifice progress elsewhere.
  • If nothing else, a list of active and completed quests in the OP would be nice. At this point I've completely lost track if there's any specific goals I can be making progression towards.

I hope you don't take this too harshly - I like what you've made here and there's some pretty cool ideas in play. I really want to see this game be able to come to some form of conclusion and not just quietly fizzle out.
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I do agree with a few of these things like the boss fight phases it's just that I'm not entirely sure how long I should have certain phases go on for so while I DO enjoy being on hands with the game play I'm not too sure how long it should go on for since I know people have time commitments (including me) as for other quality of life things I will implement them for your convenience. As for the battles they are NOT random infact if you check the maps both you and the enemies move around so it's simply a matter of avoiding them if you don't with to engage in combat becuase besides the Boss and Mini Boss not every encounter is required but I will admit it might be hard for players to know how to avoid enemy's attacking you so if you have any suggestions for that I'm all ears. As for the final thing this game is very much meant to be a collaboration where while you CAN go down the levels in your own it's much easier to do so with a team.
If call have any more suggestions I'm happy to hear them.
 
Boo1268 said:
As for the battles they are NOT random infact if you check the maps both you and the enemies move around so it's simply a matter of avoiding them if you don't with to engage in combat becuase besides the Boss and Mini Boss not every encounter is required but I will admit it might be hard for players to know how to avoid enemy's attacking you so if you have any suggestions for that I'm all ears.
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I couldn't see the side room that Blobby and Nachi went to on the map. I couldn't avoid the enemies in there.
It shows up for me now, but it hadn't before.
 
[[DryBonesBandit]] said:
I couldn't see the side room that Blobby and Nachi went to on the map. I couldn't avoid the enemies in there.
It shows up for me now, but it hadn't before.
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Ah I see well that's partly my fault and partly the maps fault since I did reveal the room AFTER you entered it but it seems as if it takes some time to fully load on your end when I reveal it so sorry about that.
 
Boo1268 said:
I do agree with a few of these things like the boss fight phases it's just that I'm not entirely sure how long I should have certain phases go on for so while I DO enjoy being on hands with the game play I'm not too sure how long it should go on for since I know people have time commitments (including me)
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This pretty much comes down to complexity - in other words, how much content there is to interact with and the input you're expecting from players. 24 hours might be enough for a reasonably engaged playerbase to explore everything in an area, or if there's too much content 48 hours might be better before "ending" it. 24 hours would probably be enough for a boss, assuming it's something like one round of submissions or the players could be expected to take it down in a few rounds of attacks.

Speaking from experience, you can always try something out and adjust the times later if it's not working out for the players. I ended up adjusting the phase lengths for AAAA based on player feedback.
 
Waluigi Time said:
This pretty much comes down to complexity - in other words, how much content there is to interact with and the input you're expecting from players. 24 hours might be enough for a reasonably engaged playerbase to explore everything in an area, or if there's too much content 48 hours might be better before "ending" it. 24 hours would probably be enough for a boss, assuming it's something like one round of submissions or the players could be expected to take it down in a few rounds of attacks.

Speaking from experience, you can always try something out and adjust the times later if it's not working out for the players. I ended up adjusting the phase lengths for AAAA based on player feedback.
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Alright then I'll try that later today!
 
Should have done this from the Start but here we are.
Exploration Phase has begun you have till to enter the Boss Door.
However if more time is needed I will extend the time frame.
 
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ALRIGHT FOLKS I CHANGED THE TIME YOU HAVE MORE TIME NOW! (Again if you want to finish this and get to the boss door please ask for more time.
 
[[DryBonesBandit]]
New Nachi Form
1757118046610.png

Percussion Pounder
Strength: 8/10
Inteligence: 7/10
Speed: 3/10
Hp: 9/10
Special Skills:
This hulking Robotic mass can not only smash its foes with its hands (even if it has no fingers) create soundwaves by banging its drums and if it bangs its drums in a certain frequency it can make rocks levitate alongside this its arms have no joints so it can move them in any direction.
 
Hi, popping in again with some more feedback/a suggestion. Awards season is winding down and we'll be looking to archive the board not too long after Scribble wraps up - considering this game is only about 1/4 through its planned content, I doubt it'll be finished around then, which basically leaves two options here. Either you can request it be moved over to the Strategy board to run its course, or, and this would be my personal suggestion, wrap things up after the first boss and pick the rest up again at a later date. Consider this a test run for the format, now you know what sorts of things work and what don't and what's expected of you as a host, and you can more easily take feedback into account for a longer game. The good thing, if you decide to do that, is that the game is constructed in a way where all the areas are pretty modular (whereas AAAA was constantly expanding on a single area) so I don't think it would be very disruptive.

Like I've said before, I think there's a fun core concept here! But I do also think some improvements could be made (and I'll have more detailed points of feedback to offer whenever that's appropriate) and I think it might be healthier to try a fresh run versus patching things mid-game. Plus, almost everyone involved in this game including yourself is also committed to RKG2, and since activity has slowed for the second time now, I'm not sure if this playerbase has the energy to keep things going as-is for three additional areas.
 
Waluigi Time said:
Hi, popping in again with some more feedback/a suggestion. Awards season is winding down and we'll be looking to archive the board not too long after Scribble wraps up - considering this game is only about 1/4 through its planned content, I doubt it'll be finished around then, which basically leaves two options here. Either you can request it be moved over to the Strategy board to run its course, or, and this would be my personal suggestion, wrap things up after the first boss and pick the rest up again at a later date. Consider this a test run for the format, now you know what sorts of things work and what don't and what's expected of you as a host, and you can more easily take feedback into account for a longer game. The good thing, if you decide to do that, is that the game is constructed in a way where all the areas are pretty modular (whereas AAAA was constantly expanding on a single area) so I don't think it would be very disruptive.

Like I've said before, I think there's a fun core concept here! But I do also think some improvements could be made (and I'll have more detailed points of feedback to offer whenever that's appropriate) and I think it might be healthier to try a fresh run versus patching things mid-game. Plus, almost everyone involved in this game including yourself is also committed to RKG2, and since activity has slowed for the second time now, I'm not sure if this playerbase has the energy to keep things going as-is for three additional areas.
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*sigh* I don't want to end the game yet so I think I'll just move it to Strategy wing but here's a compromise after the first Boss fight is over we will take a break and reanage the game at a designated date that way it can be planned around I've just been busy as of late and don't want this game to end at just the first level I wish for it to run it's full course.
 
Boo1268 said:
*sigh* I don't want to end the game yet so I think I'll just move it to Strategy wing but here's a compromise after the first Boss fight is over we will take a break and reanage the game at a designated date that way it can be planned around I've just been busy as of late and don't want this game to end at just the first level I wish for it to run it's full course.
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Well, that's your choice to make - I suppose just taking an extended break would have a similar effect to a fresh run, if you're willing to take feedback into account and make adjustments for the remaining areas. Just be mindful that some people who originally signed up may no longer be interested or willing to participate, which is always a danger when a game goes on hiatus. You may need to find some replacements at that point.

I do have some points of feedback for whatever form this continues in:

Consider the level of commitment you as a host are willing and able to achieve - This is the biggie here. I've talked a bit before about how having a game that constantly needs the host present to move forward can be a pretty big strain. It's important that you're regularly available, and to clearly communicate with the players if you won't be. I think the big momentum killer for this game, which we're still feeling the effects of, was that there were multiple days of limited or no host availability. Players will be understanding if something comes up and you can't be around, but it's really important to be open and communicative about it. I think it would solve multiple problems with the game if it was on a more defined schedule and wasn't constantly running, like if you were to have regular sessions over the weekend where we complete one floor/area each time.

As a host, nudge the players along a bit more - This hasn't been a huge issue this game but I feel it's worth addressing. One thing that was, in my opinion, rightfully criticized about AAAA was "multi-step" interactions (i.e. meeting an NPC, and then having to interact with them a second time to get the details of their quest). So I think you could streamline some interactions, for example when we first found Captain Toad we just heard wailing in the room and then had to investigate further to find him, I think that could've just jumped straight to meeting Captain Toad. In a game like this, it's safe to assume that when you mention things for players to investigate, they're going to want to check them out, especially when it's the only thing in the room.

The other point here is the encounter with Pianosaurus, specifically that we haven't actually entered into the boss fight yet. Granted, the players haven't taken the initiative to actually start the fight, but that's where host nudging comes in - you could have the boss initiate on its own. I assume you're trying to incorporate some freeform roleplay elements by letting the players talk to the boss, but that's not necessarily beneficial in a structured game format. It's not clear right now if the players actually can talk their way out of needing to fight it, or if we're just going to be continually stonewalled and the players are being allowed to participate in RP fluff that doesn't progress the game. If it's the latter, that's something you should be steering players away from - character interaction can be a fun part of these games but isn't something that should be prioritized at the expense of gameplay.

Evaluate the usefulness of teams - This one isn't so much a hosting-related issue as it is a personal point of feedback of mine. To be honest, I don't feel like the team aspect is adding much to this game - I haven't seen anything really make use of it, and if anything it's actively making me not want to engage at times because I feel like doing so would be helping someone I "shouldn't". The big thing here is that with only 5 players, adding a competitive aspect feels a little odd and that this could easily be fully collaborative since it's already PvE anyway. No big deal if this is left as-is, but I thought I would mention it.


So again, I hope you don't take this too harshly - speaking from experience, no game is perfect, and even the most well-received games here have had points where something could've been done better. Not only is this your first time hosting, but it's also an untested format, so a few bumps are inevitable.
 
DryBonesBandit said:
Honestly i don't get the rival team thing
why aren't we just a big group of five if we're going to end up being forced to work together anyway
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Well if you all want to you can be a big team after you beat the Boss?
Waluigi Time said:
Well, that's your choice to make - I suppose just taking an extended break would have a similar effect to a fresh run, if you're willing to take feedback into account and make adjustments for the remaining areas. Just be mindful that some people who originally signed up may no longer be interested or willing to participate, which is always a danger when a game goes on hiatus. You may need to find some replacements at that point.
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Yeah If I'm being honest I've gotten way over my head.
Waluigi Time said:
I do have some points of feedback for whatever form this continues in:

Consider the level of commitment you as a host are willing and able to achieve - This is the biggie here. I've talked a bit before about how having a game that constantly needs the host present to move forward can be a pretty big strain. It's important that you're regularly available, and to clearly communicate with the players if you won't be. I think the big momentum killer for this game, which we're still feeling the effects of, was that there were multiple days of limited or no host availability. Players will be understanding if something comes up and you can't be around, but it's really important to be open and communicative about it. I think it would solve multiple problems with the game if it was on a more defined schedule and wasn't constantly running, like if you were to have regular sessions over the weekend where we complete one floor/area each time.

As a host, nudge the players along a bit more - This hasn't been a huge issue this game but I feel it's worth addressing. One thing that was, in my opinion, rightfully criticized about AAAA was "multi-step" interactions (i.e. meeting an NPC, and then having to interact with them a second time to get the details of their quest). So I think you could streamline some interactions, for example when we first found Captain Toad we just heard wailing in the room and then had to investigate further to find him, I think that could've just jumped straight to meeting Captain Toad. In a game like this, it's safe to assume that when you mention things for players to investigate, they're going to want to check them out, especially when it's the only thing in the room.

The other point here is the encounter with Pianosaurus, specifically that we haven't actually entered into the boss fight yet. Granted, the players haven't taken the initiative to actually start the fight, but that's where host nudging comes in - you could have the boss initiate on its own. I assume you're trying to incorporate some freeform roleplay elements by letting the players talk to the boss, but that's not necessarily beneficial in a structured game format. It's not clear right now if the players actually can talk their way out of needing to fight it, or if we're just going to be continually stonewalled and the players are being allowed to participate in RP fluff that doesn't progress the game. If it's the latter, that's something you should be steering players away from - character interaction can be a fun part of these games but isn't something that should be prioritized at the expense of gameplay.

Evaluate the usefulness of teams - This one isn't so much a hosting-related issue as it is a personal point of feedback of mine. To be honest, I don't feel like the team aspect is adding much to this game - I haven't seen anything really make use of it, and if anything it's actively making me not want to engage at times because I feel like doing so would be helping someone I "shouldn't". The big thing here is that with only 5 players, adding a competitive aspect feels a little odd and that this could easily be fully collaborative since it's already PvE anyway. No big deal if this is left as-is, but I thought I would mention it.


So again, I hope you don't take this too harshly - speaking from experience, no game is perfect, and even the most well-received games here have had points where something could've been done better. Not only is this your first time hosting, but it's also an untested format, so a few bumps are inevitable.
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Yeah like I said I've just been busy so I'm sorry about that guys I'll work harder in it and we will definitely have a break after the first Boss fight.
 
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