Mario villains battle royale:

Mcmadness said:
I'd believe that if super dimentio weren't such a weak boss. I mean all it does is try to step on you or shoot easily dodged blocks.
Click to expand...
Gameplay and story are completely different. If they gave some random Goomba in TTYD 5000 HP that wouldn't make it any more powerful story wise just a heck of a challenge to beat gameplay wise. Similarly if the Shadow Queen were easy that wouldn't make her not a near invulnerably almighty demon who can enslave the world on her own.

Just because a boss fight is easy doesn't mean the character is weak or vice versa.
 
if they wanted to make the player believe that this entity is super-powerful, they would certainly tie it in the gameplay in some manner you know

that's why they don't give goombas 500 hp (also making enemies damage sponges suck). that's why they make the final boss in many games, like, really destructive and all and sometimes, very difficult. that's why i believe cackletta's soul is more threatening because that person can ohko on her first term because your characters start out weakened.
 
Redshift said:
if they wanted to make the player believe that this entity is super-powerful, they would certainly tie it in the gameplay in some manner you know

that's why they don't give goombas 500 hp (also making enemies damage sponges suck). that's why they make the final boss in many games, like, really destructive and all and sometimes, very difficult. that's why i believe cackletta's soul is more threatening because that person can ohko on her first term because your characters start out weakened.
Click to expand...
Of course there's a general correlation. But it's not always the case. Imo Cackletta isn't as powerful as the Dark Star yet Superstar Saga's final boss is harder than Bowser's Inside Story. One boss being harder than another may usually mean that it's canonically more powerful, but not always.
 
final bosses don't necessarily need to be difficult but in order for players to accept that, that's true, but, they should tie in more of his supposed power-level with actual gameplay than just dialogue and cutscenes because making a boss fight interesting and somewhat challenging is more convincing of a threatening boss than not.
 
Indeed. I remember when I first played SPM years ago and fought Count Bleck for the first time and after all the build up about how strong he was (note this is the guy who defeated Mario with plot convenience ease in the opening of the game) and all he can do is just throw some easily dodged purple energy balls, open a portal you can easily run away from and make you run slower?

Pretty anti-climactic.
 
Super Paper Mario's battle system is its biggest step down from TTYD if you ask me. I can kind of relate to why they did it, and it's not all bad, Brobot 1 was really creative, and Pit of 100 Trials would be terrible if it were turn based, but just... they took away one of the best things about the first two games and replaced it with something kind of mediocre. One way in which it stalls is that some of the bosses are incredibly broken, including Super Dimentio. It's not just that though, 3 attack power for a final boss is pathetic considering how easy the attacks are to avoid and how short the fight is.

Mcmadness said:
Indeed. I remember when I first played SPM years ago and fought Count Bleck for the first time and after all the build up about how strong he was (note this is the guy who defeated Mario with plot convenience ease in the opening of the game) and all he can do is just throw some easily dodged purple energy balls, open a portal you can easily run away from and make you run slower?
Click to expand...
Count Bleck is actually one of the hardest bosses in the game if you ask me. I guess you probably played this in adulthood whereas I was still in my single digits when I first fought Bleck. I didn't get the whole bosses are too easy thing back then. Coming back to it now I can appreciate its flaws for sure, easy bosses being one of them, but that doesn't make the story any less amazing. I agree that both Bleck and Dimentio deserved to be harder which would have communicated their vast power in terms of gameplay as well as dialogue and cutscenes, but that doesn't mean that they're actually less powerful.

Hence my point stands that Super Dimentio to my knowledge is the most canonically powerful any Mario character ever becomes at any point despite how easy he might have been gameplay wise.
 
Yeah, I still don't believe it. It lacks any of the oomph the previous game's had.
 
still think bowser is overall more powerful than he is

he at least comes back. always.
 
Redshift said:
still think bowser is overall more powerful than he is

he at least comes back. always.
Click to expand...
There's the whole Bowser and King Boo theory. Or we could just assume the plots are discontinuous. Plus if Bowser is cannonically more powerful than Super Dimentio the heroes should have won the first half of the Super Dimentio battle and wouldn't need the Pure Hearts. Bowser is pretty powerful for sure but he's not a godly almost immortal multiverse eater.
 
yeah but he doesn't have one terrible weakness that brings him down permanently. and he always comes back up. resilience is a really important trait to have, it's what makes mario powerful himself.