Super Mario = Paper Mario?

Farrah Goodfairy

Farrah Goodfairy

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Hello,

I remember seeing this in the comments of a YouTube video (@Tinselina I think this was one of your livestreams?) but I can't seem to find it anymore so I can't really give credit to who made this, but anyway: this person brought to light a comparison between 3D Super Mario games and Paper Mario games for their respective systems:

Super Mario 64 / Paper Mario 64 (Nintendo 64): Loved, pioneered the series, seen as a classic and remembered positively for a very long time after.

Sunshine / Thousand-Year Door (GameCube): Took a similar formula to the N64 version and upgraded many elements of it as well as adding several new ideas. Usually seen as less revolutionary than the N64 version but still considered an upgrade and by some the best for a long time after.

Galaxy / Super Paper Mario (Wii): At first there were some people who didn't like it for being too easy and/or linear or some other changes they didn't like from the first two. But over time it arose to a largely very positive community reception, and did well commercially and critically.

3D Land / Sticker Star (3DS): Different to its predecessors in many ways, went for a new style entirely and got rid of many of the things that were loved about the first three. Ususally disliked and considered the worst.

3D World / Color Splash (Wii U): Took a very similar formula to the 3DS version but made it better in most ways. Not hated as much as the 3DS version but still generally considered a dissappointment.

Odyssey / ???????? (Nintendo Switch): Goes back to its roots, makes great leaps forward in many ways, fulfills most fans' wishes. Although there's obviously no nostalgia factor it is now commonly (though not unanimously) agreed to be the best and gives hope for the future of Mario, representing another golden age for Nintendo.

I think I find this interesting and I guess I agree with it but I don't think it's a perfect analogy.

For example I'd argue it might be better if we swapped the Wii and GC ones so that Sunshine = SPM and Galaxy = TTYD, since TTYD is a near-universally loved sequel to the first one which better matches Galaxy, whereas SPM was controversial for being different but still loved by many and considered underrated, which better matches Sunshine.

Also I think a lot of this is kind of obvious. E.g. of course SM64 and PM64 were classic pioneers, they wouldn't be the first in a popular series otherwise. The ones on the Wii were going to be a little different since the Wii at its core is a different console with different intentions compared to the N64 and GC, but it did excellently commercially which is why Galaxy and SPM did so well. Then the 3DS is less powerful even than the GC so it's kind of expected that this one would be less powerful.

Anyway do you think this is an interesting comparison and how far do you agree with it? Does Odyssey give you hope for the future of Super Mario and/or Paper Mario?
 
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Super Paper Mario and Galaxy both also take place outside the Mushroom World and involve traveling to completely different realms.

And TTYD and Sunshine both have a port town as their hub. Paper Mario 64 has Peach's Castle based on its depiction in Super Mario 64.

I think if Super Paper Mario had released after Galaxy, there would've definitely been Galaxy references at least in Chapter 4.

Though I also see some parallels between TTYD and Galaxy: the Grand Stars act like the Crystal Stars in the way they're arranged on the observatory and unlock new domes just like the Crystal Stars point towards where the next one is.

Boy do I hope the next Paper Mario does what Odyssey did for 3D Mario. I'm still not convinced it will though.

Also side note: from the topic title I thought you were asking whether Mario in the main series is the same character as Paper Mario, which I believe he is in the first 3 Paper Mario games, but not once they began focusing on being paper as a canon trait. (The paper abilities are "curses" in TTYD, characters aren't expected to fold like that, and I'm sure for 3D Mario it would just be represented as a transformation ability like a power-up, the way he transforms is just a neat stylistic interpretation)
 
Tinselina said:
Though I also see some parallels between TTYD and Galaxy: the Grand Stars act like the Crystal Stars in the way they're arranged on the observatory and unlock new domes just like the Crystal Stars point towards where the next one is.
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I mean the Pure Hearts kind of do this too. But I guess the pattern on the floor next to Polari and Rosalina is a lot like the pedestal in TTYD.

Also your point on locations is very interesting. Then 3D Land and Sticker Star go back to a generic Mushroom Kingdom location (I think) and then 3D World and Color Splash go back to having another original location, but not really as epically otherworldly as we had on the Wii.

Finally Odyssey had you travelling between several kingdoms which I'm more fond of and hope this is the future of Paper Mario too.
 
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yabobay said:
Anyone I've asked (like 2 people) says 3D Land is better than 3D World.
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I'd say the general opinion is that 3D World is better. I know TheTopTens is by no means an accurate measure of the community's opinion but it's overall somewhat reliable, so here

Top 10 Greatest Super Mario Games of All Time

www.thetoptens.com www.thetoptens.com
As of me writing this post, 3D World = 7th and 3D Land = 16th
I haven't played 3D Land myself but judging from what I know 3D World seems better in pretty much every way, it's on a much stronger system anyway, so better graphics, better levels, better character selection, better music, better gameplay mechanics, better powerups etc.

yabobay said:
Nintendo will make another Paper Mario, returning to its roots? Ain't gon happen.
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Nintendo's changed a lot since the Wii U / 3DS era. I'm not going to place any money on the equivalent of Odyssey for the Paper Mario series but we've got a chance. And I hope so.
 
I'm very interested in what Nintendo will do with Switch's high specs for a Paper Mario game.

Personally I'd like to see them use it to have about 6 main partners right at the beginning of the game, that progress and develop with Mario. And I mean actually develop. Their own stories fleshed out throughout the entire game.
All the while Mario will have Paper Cappy (or something near equivalent) to take over enemies. I'd love to have the chance to play every species in battle.
 
Luma said:
I'm very interested in what Nintendo will do with Switch's high specs for a Paper Mario game.

Personally I'd like to see them use it to have about 6 main partners right at the beginning of the game, that progress and develop with Mario. And I mean actually develop. Their own stories fleshed out throughout the entire game.
All the while Mario will have Paper Cappy (or something near equivalent) to take over enemies. I'd love to have the chance to play every species in battle.
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That sounds interesting. I think I'd pretty much like another TTYD but with a fresh story, characters, locations, music, better graphics, new partners, new attacks, some tweaks to the battle system TTYD had, and better level design.

To be honest my desired future of Paper Mario is too big to say here but I would very much appreciate that.

If Nintendo could do all that they may just make my favourite game of all time.

I'd also like to see TTYD remade for Switch since basically nowadays you can't play it without either pirating or paying a very large amount of money.
 
Another idea, to maybe match Odyssey, is a "Paper Mario Collage", it'd sort of be like the lego games where you can redesign yourself and everything around you, of course in huge places to explore unraveling some kind of mystery.
 
Luma said:
Another idea, to maybe match Odyssey, is a "Paper Mario Collage", it'd sort of be like the lego games where you can redesign yourself and everything around you, of course in huge places to explore unraveling some kind of mystery.
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I'm not really sure what you mean as I've not played Odyssey myself but a character creator I don't really feel would fit in with Paper Mario Switch.

A level creator would be good. Honestly I want to see Super Paper Mario in Super Mario Maker. Because, like, unofficial software already exists for creating custom 3D levels such as Whitehole, so I don't feel it would be unrealistic or unwise to make an official one. And I think that as SPM switches between 2D and 3D and its 3D environments are still kind of tile-based, it would be the perfect opportunity to give creators a taste of 3D before a full step up to creating epic painting worlds, harbours, galaxies, or kingdoms, as well as representing and bringing back to life what is to me an underrated masterpiece.

The open world feel could suit Paper Mario very well if you ask me. I'm currently playing through Dry Dry Desert in PM64 for the first time and it works kinda but needs improvements. That section where they just spammed like 10 pokeys is not ok.
 
Super Mario Odyssey went pretty far from conventional Mario series traditions, giving us brand-new areas, NPCs, and bosses, all of which brim with personality, and I'm kind of expecting the side games to follow suit. And so far they have, Mario Tennis Aces has much more personality than Mario Tennis: Ultra Smash and Luigi's Mansion 3 is arguably the most expressive game in the series, with how much the characters and ghosts emote. Plus Miyamoto, the one who most people blame for how Sticker Star and Color Splash turned out said in a recent interview he tries to be less stingy with how the series is handled. Then you also have Tanabe, the one behind Sticker Star and Color Splash, saying that he and the team looked through videos, message boards, and more for criticisms on Luigi's Mansion: Dark Moon to make Luigi's Mansion 3.

Things are looking pretty bright, but is it because the sun's rising or the sun's setting? I have a feeling we'll get the next game or at least an announcement for it in 2020, but we'll need to wait and see where the series goes from here.