Deku Link said:
Ema Skye said:
- Daisy had only a small handful of platformer appearances and was just a damsel in distress / object / obtainable / etc in them.
Omg...after having to look up like so many articles for my research paper, I really hate looking at those words now...
Aren't we all? *sigh*
Deku Link said:
Anyways, Daisy could have a little more establishment in terms of characterization, but it's not her fault, it's Nintendo's. I do feel that she deserves more of a backstory besides in Super Mario Land. She has basically been demoted to Waluigi status, where she is the secondary princess to Princess Peach that appears as another appealing female option to play as in spin-offs. It is quite sad because Daisy can have more potential to be in a main game sort of situation, but unfortunately she has not been given that opportunity yet.
Toadette is somewhat in the same boat, though she got a good appearance in TTYD. She mainly is just the female version of Toad, thus another female [almost] purely for spin-offs as a women choice. Would love to see her and Daisy both in a main Mario game, just as I would love to see Waluigi appear in a main game of either Mario or Wario.
With Rosalina though, I'm very happy that they are doing it with her. She is a very developed character, and with this and Mario Party 3DS, it will be her 6th appearance. In that time, she was one of the main NPC in SMG and a major cameo in SMG2, a playable character in Mario Kart Wii and 7 (and even had a course), and now potentially a host/cameo in MP3DS and playable in a main 3D Mario game. She is also the only female "princess" in the Mario series to not have been captured by an evil villain [yet]. She has one of the most detailed backgrounds of all the Mario characters throughout the series, and it was in a mainstream Mario game rather than in a Mario RPG where it is usually expected.
Now, do I want Daisy to be playable in a main Mario game? Yes. Do I want to see Toadette at least appear in a main Mario game? Yes.
However, what they are doing with Rosalina is a step in the right direction. I feel like everything they are doing with this game has been a step in the right direction. They are coming up with more original bosses after all those sad disappointments, Peach is actually the one saving someone instead of vise versa, and we get another famous Mario character playable. Not to mention the fact that many levels are actually inspired from/by other Mario series (Mario Kart, 3D Open World Mario, etc.). These past 8 years have basically been games (MP9, Sticker Star, etc.) that have been influenced by the Mario platformers, but now there is a lot of things from other games. A step in the right direction.
This. This so much.
Deku Link said:
Something tells me that this really is going to be a turning point for many Mario games after the NSMB suffering. I feel as though we are going to start seeing more of the lovely classics like Super Mario 64/Sunshine/Galaxy 1 and less of the NSMB stuff. At least, one could hope.
I don't really have a problem with the NSMB series. I mean, I adored NSMBW because it felt like a throwback to everything I loved about SMB3, and I very much enjoyed NSMBU because it was a prettier NSMBW with challenge modes and Miiverse. However, like you, they have felt very stale as of late. Also, the openness of Super Mario 64 was, like, the turning point that made me really love video games because suddenly they weren't just toys, they were new worlds that you can go into and explore, and that blew my mind.
Then I see articles
like this which kinda suggest that Open-3D Mario games are bad because the 2D fans didn't like them and because they didn't sell as well. But this feels so wrong because of the feelings I have towards Super Mario 64. I really wish Nintendo would just accept that it's okay to have a different audience for the 2D, Open-3D, and Linear-3D and that making something special that caters to each group individually, because they feel so much purer than something that meshes them all together.
It makes me worry that we'll never see another open world like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine, and that kids who are now turning the age I was when I first played Super Mario 64 won't have that sudden mind explosion about games being another world, and that makes me sad.
Dorayaki said:
Ema Skye said:
I disagree. Rosalina has been in the series for six years now, which is a long time mind you.
Would you mind counting how many years Toad has been here?
I was addressing the fact that everyone considers her a 'newcomer,' which makes sense compared to the other characters in the series but compared to every other game character in existence it is quite a long stretch.
Dorayaki said:
Ema Skye said:
- Daisy had only a small handful of platformer appearances and was just a damsel in distress / object / obtainable / etc in them.
Everyone has their love in main characters. In the same word, Peach shouldn't be playable because she also meets these things.
Daisy and Toadette had been an issue in SMB titles because they have been playing contradictory roles in Mushroom Kingdom. Everything could be fine if Nintendo just randomly pick Azalea and Mrs. Zess to be recurring characters. If you want to argue that Daisy doesn't deserve more spotlights, you should blame Nintendo why they shot themselves in the foot.
Peach has had a couple of opportunities to shine, such as her roles in the Super Princess Peach and the Paper Mario series (a bit of a stretch but still a thing), so compared to Daisy she does have that exploration. It's not much, yet it still is comparatively close to other Mario characters like Mario and Luigi.
It also doesn't really help that, as far as we've seen, Daisy in terms of character has never really offered more than Peach at all other than being worse tempered (Mario Strikers). Most literature people would tell people to ditch her completely because her character as it stands can just be encapsulated in Peach. Same deal with Toadette being encapsulated in Toad (I honestly can't think of a difference other than her being a girl).
Dorayaki said:
Deku Link said:
However, what they are doing with Rosalina is a step in the right direction. I feel like everything they are doing with this game has been a step in the right direction. They are coming up with more original bosses after all those sad disappointments, Peach is actually the one saving someone instead of vise versa, and we get another famous Mario character playable. Not to mention the fact that many levels are actually inspired from/by other Mario series (Mario Kart, 3D Open World Mario, etc.). These past 8 years have basically been games (MP9, Sticker Star, etc.) that have been influenced by the Mario platformers, but now there is a lot of things from other games. A step in the right direction.
It's a correct statement. Yes, no matter what, if Nintendo is willing to give more main characters playable and unlockable elements, we expect it to happen in future SMB titles. However, they should also get rid of their old problems.
Pretty much.
Just to be clear, I wasn't by any means arguing that they the other characters shouldn't get their chance to shine (I know people have been hammering about a Waluigi game for many years now) but I don't think 3D World is really the place for it, because in this game their exposure is just another body of the default character skeleton, rather than having their stories explored. Unless they decided to do a 'library' thing for each of the characters in 3D World like they did for Rosalina in Galaxy (which would be kinda cool in all honesty), then I don't know how adding them is really going to benefit their character at all. I was basically saying that if we're choosing characters for this game based purely on character establishment, then Rosalina is a more appropriate choice, despite her infancy in the series.
