Old Characters that should have joined the main characters?

Dorayaki

King Bowser
It's similar with another topic "old characters that you would like to see in a new game", but talking about the Mario chracter history.

Nowadays there are many complaints about bad rosters in Mario spinoff games, because of the improper use of main characters.
But, if the staff had a better foresight of making spinoffs in 1990s, would there be not only better rosters, but different main characters?

Excluding main characters who already appear before SMB (Mario bros, Peach, Toad, DK, Bowser), take a look at how each main character made their spinoff debut, classified by games:



Playable debut in Super Mario Kart, 1992: Yoshi
Yoshi: the first ever added main character, after his real debut in SMW, 1990, Yoshi was added to be the earlies Kart game.

Playable debut in Kart 64, 1996: Wario
Wario: after his real debut in SML2, 1992, actually he was already playable in his subseries like Wario Land, Wario Woods. Though the previous Super Mario Kart was after SML2, Wario wasn't immediately added to this game, like Daisy in SML.

Playable debut in Golf 64, 1999: Baby Mario
Baby Mario: surprisingly earlier than many other main characters. His debut was in the origin of Yoshi series, SMW2, 1995. This also make other new babies playable in spinoffs.

Playable debut in Tennis 64, 2000: Birdo, Daisy, Waluigi
Birdo: her origin was in SMB2(USA version), 1988, which is earlier than her counterpart Yoshi. But obviously, it's very late for her to be playable as Yoshi already had several own games in that time.
Daisy: her origin was in SML, the 1989 gameboy game, where she was a replacement of Peach. Even though it's earlier than Wario, her playable debut is later than him. Her official portrait also appeared in NES Open Tournament Golf, 1991. The 1993 film Mario bros was possibly another factor to let Daisy become more important in Mario series.
Waluigi: the first ever spinoff original main character (Uh). Generally he seems to be created as Wario's partner in face of Mario bros.

Playable debut in Mario Golf Toadstool Tour, 2003: Bowser Jr.
Bowser Jr: created in SMS, 2002. He's also the character that only needs one year to become playable.

Playable debut in Mario Kart DD, 2003: Toadette, Diddy Kong
Toadette: the second spinoff original main character. But it's weird for her status to be an original spinoff characer.
Diddy Kong: a subseries character, debut in DKC1, 1994, and had his own spinoff: Diddy Racing in 1997.

Playable debut in Mario Superstar Baseball, 2005: Dixie Kong
Dixie Kong: the thrid DK character, debut in DKC2, 1995.



After these information, we can see some spinoffs were the key to determine tha future Mario main characters, from the 1990s. What about the other characters from the same timeline?


Pauline: the very early character, and still recurring, but still no playable chance. Her major problem was to be regarded as a prototype of Peach in NES era, but she was designed to be a different character in 2000. Her example was actually similar with Daisy's, but the staff could just say that she's another princess and Peach's friend.

Foreman Spike: a character appeared in Wrecking Crew, 1985, and playable in Mobile Golf, 2001. He shares some similarity with Wario, but no knowing why the staff changes the idea with Wario.

The Super Mario Bros. Super Show characters: appeared in 1989. In this story there are some puppets characters and many related characters referred to be Mario and Luigi's friends/relatives, though the staff chose none of them to be reused in spinoffs, official introduction or Yoshi series. Some cousin/nephew characters are actually possible to replace baby characters (if they were young enough).

Koopalings: appeared in SMB3, 1993. Actually they had a good time in comic and cartoon era as official main characters. Their major problem was to be a group, as the staff didn't choose them to be individual spinoff character.

Wart, Tatanga: the two bosses from the early SMB2(USA ver) and SML face the major problem of being with Bowser, where the staff seem to think only one major boss can be in spinoff series. I think too many bosses do kill diversity, however, Fawful is an intersting example.

Geno, Mallow: the very first main RPG characters in Seven Star, 1996. They seem not to be reused because of the copyright problem, but other future RPG characters aren't reused too.

Gene: actually Gene was a recurring player in golf games even earlier than Daisy or Birdo. It's unknown why the staff cancelled his chance in more sport games.

Human athletes: Tennis 64 was also a notable point of Mario history. The staff (Camelot) stuffed many human athlete characters along with Baby Mario in Golf 64, but suddenly in Tennis 64 they changed their mind and put other old Mario characters/species and make them recrurring. It's unkown why the two similar games have such two opposing rosters. If the athletes still appeared in Tennis 64, we can see them in Olympics now.



Compared to these unused characters, the added main characters (Wario bros, Yoshi, Daisy) have somewhat a common point: they have similiar styles with the original main characters. However, it also leads to less diversity (many plumbers, toads, alteregos etc). Though we can't change the history, the only way the staff should do is using stories to prove that the added main characters are more competent than unused ones.
 

Koopaul

Cheep Cheep
No one wanted to play as human athletes that bad because we'd all rather play as a Mario character we've grown to love and have made appearances outside of the sports series. The one exception would be Waluigi because he has a connection to Wario.

I guess that is the biggest problem with the human athletes, they have no real connection to the Mario cast. Every Mario character has some sort of formula or relationship with one another. But these humans? Nope, they have nothing to do with Mario and friends.
 

Toad85

MarioKartRPG
Dora, you amaze me in how you are so educated about the Mario series and yet so fucking wrong.
 

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Put That Thing Back Where it Came From or So Help Me said:
Dora, you amaze me in how you are so educated about the Mario series and yet so *bleep*ing wrong.
Well, I wonder if you're educated to say someone is wrong without giving own opinions. I'd like to hear that.
 

Toad85

MarioKartRPG
I'm on an iPod Touch and it takes a really, really long time to type long drawn out sentences.
 

Anser

King Bowser
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...

It's not an old character, but it's about time that Lubba (from Super Mario Galaxy 2) makes his playable debut.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
Anser said:
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...
ESPECIALLY Baby Daisy
 

Toad85

MarioKartRPG
Finally on a laptop.

Dorayaki said:
Pauline: the very early character, and still recurring, but still no playable chance. Her major problem was to be regarded as a prototype of Peach in NES era, but she was designed to be a different character in 2000. Her example was actually similar with Daisy's, but the staff could just say that she's another princess and Peach's friend.
I personally think that Pauline is a poor character choice. With Peach and Daisy both around, she just doesn't really have a point.

I see her as a background character or unlockable tops.

Dorayaki said:
Foreman Spike: a character appeared in Wrecking Crew, 1985, and playable in Mobile Golf, 2001. He shares some similarity with Wario, but no knowing why the staff changes the idea with Wario.
How about because Wario has a better design, catchier name, clearer character, more backstory and plot, and actually makes sense in-context?

Dorayaki said:
The Super Mario Bros. Super Show characters: appeared in 1989. In this story there are some puppets characters and many related characters referred to be Mario and Luigi's friends/relatives, though the staff chose none of them to be reused in spinoffs, official introduction or Yoshi series. Some cousin/nephew characters are actually possible to replace baby characters (if they were young enough).
whyyy

The show's not canon. It never claimed to be. And even if it was, how would they fit in given Mario's retconned backstory as of "Yoshi's Island"?

Mario and Luigi's relatives were added bonuses for a short-lived TV show. Nothing more.

Dorayaki said:
Koopalings: appeared in SMB3, 1993. Actually they had a good time in comic and cartoon era as official main characters. Their major problem was to be a group, as the staff didn't choose them to be individual spinoff character.
New Super Mario Bros. Wii and 2 are your friends.

Dorayaki said:
Wart, Tatanga: the two bosses from the early SMB2(USA ver) and SML face the major problem of being with Bowser, where the staff seem to think only one major boss can be in spinoff series. I think too many bosses do kill diversity, however, Fawful is an intersting example.
Alright, I can agree with these two. I've always felt Wart had a lot of wasted potential, and could be nearly as much of a threat as Bowser or King K. Rool. Tatanga IMO would make a great world boss, like Cortez in PMTTYD or that mummy Pokey in NSMB.

Dorayaki said:
Geno, Mallow: the very first main RPG characters in Seven Star, 1996. They seem not to be reused because of the copyright problem, but other future RPG characters aren't reused too.
You just answered your own question.

Dorayaki said:
Gene: actually Gene was a recurring player in golf games even earlier than Daisy or Birdo. It's unknown why the staff cancelled his chance in more sport games.
Because no one likes him.

Dorayaki said:
Human athletes: Tennis 64 was also a notable point of Mario history. The staff (Camelot) stuffed many human athlete characters along with Baby Mario in Golf 64, but suddenly in Tennis 64 they changed their mind and put other old Mario characters/species and make them recrurring. It's unkown why the two similar games have such two opposing rosters. If the athletes still appeared in Tennis 64, we can see them in Olympics now.
See above.
 

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Koopaul said:
No one wanted to play as human athletes that bad because we'd all rather play as a Mario character we've grown to love and have made appearances outside of the sports series. The one exception would be Waluigi because he has a connection to Wario.

I guess that is the biggest problem with the human athletes, they have no real connection to the Mario cast. Every Mario character has some sort of formula or relationship with one another. But these humans? Nope, they have nothing to do with Mario and friends.
I discussed it in this topic. In another saying, the creation of human is not good because the creators didn't consider to make them in the same style with the classic Mario characters and make them acceptable. So maybe they got bad feedbacks from Golf 64, and changed it in Tennis 64.

But ironically, facing that SMB games lack of main characters, most of Mario's connections are only referrable in introductions or several videos. If the staff just say that Gene is Mario's forever rival, or Azalea is Peach's close friend before Daisy, that still works.

Anser said:
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...
It's not an old character, but it's about time that Lubba (from Super Mario Galaxy 2) makes his playable debut.
Petey Piranha and King Boo are a bit weird examples. They are semi-important recurring characters as not being real bosses or rivals.
I'd like to see Lubba as a party host first. Not knowing how come a generic host came in Party 9.
 

Zae

Donkey Kong
Banned User
Baby Luigi said:
Anser said:
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...
ESPECIALLY Baby Daisy
I find the whole baby concept to be a little useless.

Also not geno as he was stupidly generic and incredibly boring, only cool thing is design.

Mallow on the other hand was pretty hilarious and had a good back story at the time. Plus his step father being a frog is awesome.

Other characters I'd love to see is mainly from Paper Mario 1 & 2.

Namely Watt, Admiral Bobbery, and Lord Crump.

Also koopa bros as they were hilarious references.
 

Dark Light

Cherries and Berries
Joltik said:
Baby Luigi said:
Anser said:
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...
ESPECIALLY Baby Daisy
I find the whole baby concept to be a little useless.
I would like to argue you this, but, eh, whatever. Your opinion.
 

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Put That Thing Back Where it Came From or So Help Me said:
I personally think that Pauline is a poor character choice. With Peach and Daisy both around, she just doesn't really have a point. I see her as a background character or unlockable tops.

How about because Wario has a better design, catchier name, clearer character, more backstory and plot, and actually makes sense in-context?

The show's not canon. It never claimed to be. And even if it was, how would they fit in given Mario's retconned backstory as of "Yoshi's Island"? Mario and Luigi's relatives were added bonuses for a short-lived TV show. Nothing more.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii and 2 are your friends.

Alright, I can agree with these two. I've always felt Wart had a lot of wasted potential, and could be nearly as much of a threat as Bowser or King K. Rool. Tatanga IMO would make a great world boss, like Cortez in PMTTYD or that mummy Pokey in NSMB.

You just answered your own question.

Because no one likes him.See above.
What I mean about Pauline and Spike is, all main characters didn't have a complete backstory same as Daisy and Wario in their NES/GBC era. If the staff chose to give more development for Pauline and Spike who had only name and appearance, the outcome is still the same.
But generally "Wario" is a better and memorable name to be Mario's rival. For the new Pauline, since she has a different appearance and connections, certainly her position is different from Peach and Daisy.

Mario bro's background contradictions is what the staff should deal with. What I mean is if the staff did consider to use the settings silimar with the TV show stories, they must have "redesigns", not everything remains the same. For example, Mario's little niece evolves to be a character like Baby Peach.

Koopalings are still rival-only characters in NSMB, in a narrow sense they're recrurring but not protagonists as Bowser Jr. is.

I'm not sure if having more bosses is a good thing, but at least I think they fit to be semi-bosses in the next 3D platformers or Paper games.

Human characters as I replied. I think Gene is an okay opponent in sport games, and that's your own opinion.
.
 

Raven Effect

That's what I call hamburgers
Core 'Shroom Staff
Retired Wiki Staff
Koopaul said:
No one wanted to play as human athletes that bad because we'd all rather play as a Mario character we've grown to love and have made appearances outside of the sports series. The one exception would be Waluigi because he has a connection to Wario.
Yeah nobody wants to play as humans they want to play as mario
 

Dorayaki

King Bowser
Octoberry said:
Koopaul said:
No one wanted to play as human athletes that bad because we'd all rather play as a Mario character we've grown to love and have made appearances outside of the sports series. The one exception would be Waluigi because he has a connection to Wario.
Yeah nobody wants to play as humans they want to play as mario
That's another topic. They do not look like Mario characters, but they're officially classified to be with Mario (as they can't have own games).
 

User4042

Celestial Guide
Dorayaki said:
Anser said:
I don't know if you should count Petey Piranha, King Boo and Baby Daisy...
It's not an old character, but it's about time that Lubba (from Super Mario Galaxy 2) makes his playable debut.
I'd like to see Lubba as a party host first. Not knowing how come a generic host came in Party 9.
Well some guy vandalized the Mario Party 9 article saying Lubba was the host, a few months after E3
 
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