Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
What's wrong with having Rey defeat Kylo? I think it's nice to have the female character beat the villain for a change.
Star Wars in General (Movies, Shows, Books, Games, etc.)
- Thread starter SonicMario
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GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Rey is the main character. What did you expect?
ernesth100
The Traveler, The Genius, The Scholar
I know, I was kidding. Like for the entire movie I thought Finn was gonna be the one to defeat Ren since he had the Lightsaber. But he had no clue how to use it, I mean he sucked so hard, that random stormtrooper kicked his ass. So as the movie went on it became obvious Rey was "the one". XD
But omg, movie was incredible. Han Solo's death I saw coming but still surprised me sooooo much. I was at an actual loss for words. I really did like Finn character alot. Now I get the Traitor thing thats been going around. Hope I get to see more of Finn. And I'm wondering why Luke is all alone on some distant planet. Also, when they used that new deathstar to destroy those planets my jaw dropped. I mean that like millions upon billions of lives erased in an instant.
But omg, movie was incredible. Han Solo's death I saw coming but still surprised me sooooo much. I was at an actual loss for words. I really did like Finn character alot. Now I get the Traitor thing thats been going around. Hope I get to see more of Finn. And I'm wondering why Luke is all alone on some distant planet. Also, when they used that new deathstar to destroy those planets my jaw dropped. I mean that like millions upon billions of lives erased in an instant.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
May want to spoiler tag that.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
KPH2293 said:
Because he looks hilariously non-evil.
I still feel like there was no need to show his face this early. He could have stayed masked throughout the movie (even when he killed Han) and still retained his intimidation factor for the rest of the trilogy. Instead they tried to make him sympathetic already, and make Snoke the "bad guy". Which was a bad move, because Snoke looks even less scary than maskless Kylo Ren (and did nothing but sit on his lame CGI throne effect all movie).
It's sad when the most interesting First Order character in the movie was the stormtrooper who yells "Traitor!". Otherwise all we have is Emo Kylo Ren, pathetic cross between Voldemort and Palpatine, General Yells-a-lot, and Captain Pushover.
I still feel like there was no need to show his face this early. He could have stayed masked throughout the movie (even when he killed Han) and still retained his intimidation factor for the rest of the trilogy. Instead they tried to make him sympathetic already, and make Snoke the "bad guy". Which was a bad move, because Snoke looks even less scary than maskless Kylo Ren (and did nothing but sit on his lame CGI throne effect all movie).
It's sad when the most interesting First Order character in the movie was the stormtrooper who yells "Traitor!". Otherwise all we have is Emo Kylo Ren, pathetic cross between Voldemort and Palpatine, General Yells-a-lot, and Captain Pushover.
If he left his mask on the whole time, people would just complain that that's another thing the movie did that's the same as episode 4. "Darth Vader 2 but lamer", they'd say - but now the lameness is on purpose because we saw that he's a dweeby kid under there.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
I actually thought they were going for a "similar yet different" angle for awhile; he's like Darth Vader but when he runs around slicing random stuff with his lightsaber it portrays him as unhinged and slightly crazy, while Vader was always in control of himself.
I dunno, for the first thirty or forty minutes I was sort of on board with the new direction this movie was taking. Then everything just kind of fell apart.
I dunno, for the first thirty or forty minutes I was sort of on board with the new direction this movie was taking. Then everything just kind of fell apart.
Time Turner
You are filled with determination. (R/GD/TT)
Walkazo said:
But does that really excuse the lameness? I've talked about this before, but the movie tried too hard to make Kylo sympathetic while also forgetting that he's still supposed to be a villain. From the second he took off the mask, I knew the movie wanted me to care about the pretty boy. To be fair, the movie did a decent job of that, but when it comes time for Kylo to actually be villainous (Kylo killing Han, the battle against Rey), they flip the switch and try to make him evil while failing.
When I think of a good sympathetic villain, Zuko from Avatar is the first example that comes to mind. The show goes to incredible lengths to show everything it should, from Zuko's actual villainous actions to the sympathetic reason behind his actions to his interactions with other characters that make both aspects feel genuine, legitimate, and earned. When Zuko's struggling between helping Katara and staying with his sister, you know exactly why he would choose either side, and you're actually rooting for him to be good. Kylo, on the other hand, doesn't have much of that. I really wish there was more scenes of explanation. Not necessarily mindless exposition, but something to make me actually know the character.
edit: It may not be entirely fair to compare a two-hour-ish movie to a cartoon with three seasons, but if you only take the episodes where Zuko appears into consideration, they develop his character in a pretty decent amount of time.
A sympathetic villain has two aspects: sympathy and villainy. Both should be present.
When I think of a good sympathetic villain, Zuko from Avatar is the first example that comes to mind. The show goes to incredible lengths to show everything it should, from Zuko's actual villainous actions to the sympathetic reason behind his actions to his interactions with other characters that make both aspects feel genuine, legitimate, and earned. When Zuko's struggling between helping Katara and staying with his sister, you know exactly why he would choose either side, and you're actually rooting for him to be good. Kylo, on the other hand, doesn't have much of that. I really wish there was more scenes of explanation. Not necessarily mindless exposition, but something to make me actually know the character.
edit: It may not be entirely fair to compare a two-hour-ish movie to a cartoon with three seasons, but if you only take the episodes where Zuko appears into consideration, they develop his character in a pretty decent amount of time.
A sympathetic villain has two aspects: sympathy and villainy. Both should be present.
Time Turner
You are filled with determination. (R/GD/TT)
I guess it's just a difference in taste. I'm not really satisfied with an emo kid whose main traits are angsty, confused, and pitiful as the main villain.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
If he's actually supposed to be an emo kid then why does anyone follow him? Why does he have any authority in the First Order? Why does Snoke even use him at all?
The EU character he's loosely based on, Jacen Solo, actually had a shift from emo to dark side into genuine threat. This whole "please help me be more evil!!!!" thing is completely, flat out ridiculous. That's like handlebar mustache villain levels of villainy. Now he just needs to tie Fin to some railroad tracks and twirl his moustache with an evil laugh to complete the picture.
Well, at least he didn't murder Luke's awesome waifu this time around. Unless they decide to adapt that too.
The EU character he's loosely based on, Jacen Solo, actually had a shift from emo to dark side into genuine threat. This whole "please help me be more evil!!!!" thing is completely, flat out ridiculous. That's like handlebar mustache villain levels of villainy. Now he just needs to tie Fin to some railroad tracks and twirl his moustache with an evil laugh to complete the picture.
Well, at least he didn't murder Luke's awesome waifu this time around. Unless they decide to adapt that too.
Nabber
Artisanal Cheese Taster
Javelin said:
people don't follow him. that's the thing. when in the movie does anyone treat him with any kind of respect? general hux hates him, stormtroopers try to avoid him, he's not the leader that darth vader was. he just uses his powers to go around acting like he's so cool
Personally, I think the mask had to come off or else he would have been too similar to Vader. Maybe not in the scene with Rey, but when Ren was confronted by Han, I thought it was definitely appropriate.
I think Rey summed it up well when she and Ren were in each-other's heads. He's just a man that's afraid he'll never be as strong as his grandfather. That's who he's trying to emulate by wearing the mask in the first place.
I think Rey summed it up well when she and Ren were in each-other's heads. He's just a man that's afraid he'll never be as strong as his grandfather. That's who he's trying to emulate by wearing the mask in the first place.
GalacticPetey
Donkey Kong
Javelin said:
He scares the shit out of people by thrashing his lightsaber around. People will listen if they're being threatened by a guy with force powers and a later sword. And even then, some don't even listen to him as Nabber pointed out.
Snoke is using him because he's strong with the force and easily manipulated. In fact, I bet Snoke sees him as expendable now that Rey has appeared. Sidious was always looking for the next best apprentice to replace his last.
Snoke is using him because he's strong with the force and easily manipulated. In fact, I bet Snoke sees him as expendable now that Rey has appeared. Sidious was always looking for the next best apprentice to replace his last.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
here's an article about star trek: into darkness, but i think it sums up rather nicely why i can't deal with all these issues with the movie
Time Turner
You are filled with determination. (R/GD/TT)
Javelin said:
Finally, I have a term for being sucked out of the film. When a movie is sucking you into its world or its characters or whatever it wants you to believe in, it's doing something right. When a movie suddenly sucks you out or gives you a large opportunity to be sucked out, it's doing something wrong.
Dr. Javelin
Nathan Latsk
wow, i was going through this thread and he totally called itJavelin said:
edit: also featuring
missed opportunity, if you ask me. where were the super neato space battles? there were the cool escapes in the first half hour and the battle over cantina planet was sorta nice but after that all we get are some really, really rushed shots near the station. maybe thirty seconds of footage, if that?Javelin said:
tbh i thought harrison ford did alright in this movieJavelin said:
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
I finished watching V and VI and I have a question about VI. Since IV-VI came out first, how does Anakin look exactly as he did in the prequel triology in the ending scene?
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
Ah, I see.
The Golden Yoshi
Yes.
Epiosde V is definitely my favourite. As a matter of fact, today I went out and got myself a toy Darth Vader lightsaber.
Glitchy Bowser Jr.
"Stuff it, sponge brain!"
Episode V was my favourite too. Episode VII and III are close though.
Yoshiwaker
Star Spirit
Rewatched VII with some friends yesterday. Basically I know for sure what I like and don't like about the movie.
To put it succintly, the movie starts to go downhill after Kylo Ren takes his mask off