Avatar: The Last Airbender + Legend of Korra

[Lin Beifong]

I don't fully understand it, but he has the right to say it without people telling him it's wrong.

That is a huge and, unfotunately, very common misconception. The right of free speech may give him the right to say it, but that's all it does. The right of free speech does not and should not protect people from criticism. It only protects them from legal consequences.

If a stated opinion happens to be vile and seeks to defame, belittle, or otherwise negatively affect a group of people without any active contribution on their part, people are absolutely justified in calling that opinion into question. Trying to forbid such criticism is, ironically, an infringement on the right of free speech on itself.

Please do not spread this misinformation around any further.

 

[ernesth100]

Okay, so I am a homophobe apparently. Now what?

 

[Contra(dictory)]

Okay, so I am a homophobe apparently. Now what?

Well, let's talk about it.

Why should homosexuality be treated any differently than heterosexuality? What's the real difference between a man and a woman and two men/two women in a romantic relationship?

 

[ernesth100]

Well whatever you believe.

If you believe in God you'll know he made Man and Woman to be together. Not Man and Man not Woman and Woman.

If you believe in science it's pretty clear that whatever the first organisms were did not reproduce by same sex breeding.

So there's one reason.

 

[GalacticPetey]

Oh boy.

 

[Nabber]

Well whatever you believe.

If you believe in God you'll know he made Man and Woman to be together. Not Man and Man not Woman and Woman.

If you believe in science it's pretty clear that whatever the first organisms were did not reproduce by same sex breeding.

So there's one reason.

What are your opinions on slavery?

 

[ernesth100]

Oh boy.

By all means sit back and enjoy the show. This could go on for a bit.

Well whatever you believe.

If you believe in God you'll know he made Man and Woman to be together. Not Man and Man not Woman and Woman.

If you believe in science it's pretty clear that whatever the first organisms were did not reproduce by same sex breeding.

So there's one reason.

What are your opinions on slavery?

Well I am African American myself so you could easily guess I do not approve of it.

 

[Nabber]

Well, if we take the religion angle, the Bible say it's perfectly acceptable to have slaves, and has many laws dictating the treatment of slaves. If we take the science angle, up until recently it was thought that the white man was the dominant race and that non-white races were subhumans meant to serve the white man.

Of course, nowadays, the generally accepted notion is that slavery is very, very bad, because most people have learned that they can't let religion and pseudo-scientific arguments dictate life.

 

[Contra(dictory)]

"Man should not lie with man as he does a woman" doesn't mean what you think it does.

According to the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, women were treated as property. This is why virginity- their purity- were considered key, and why if you wanted to marry a woman, you first had to earn the approval of her father, the man who originally owned her.

This line isn't necessarily a condemnation of homosexuality. It's a condemnation of a man owning another man in a state of submission, like he would a woman.

Sounds pretty...messed up and archaic, doesn't it?

Let's not forget that even under the condition of God existing, humans are not reliable sources when it comes to...anything. There are literally hundreds of thousands of contradictory statements about the events stated in the Christian Bible, and it so happens that people tend to choose what suits them the best. Before science, we didn't have a way to explain anything, so it all had to be the work of supernatural forces outside of our understanding, right?

If you believe in science it's pretty clear that whatever the first organisms were did not reproduce by same sex breeding.

Ah, but the planet is overpopulated, isn't it?

In addition, are you saying that people exist purely to reproduce? That they shouldn't have a choice in the matter, even if they were born in a manner that repulses them from reproduction with the opposite sex?

 

[Ghost Jam]

Kids shouldn't be worrying about relationships in general. They should be getting through school and getting there lives together.

I..
err...
Somewhat....agree.
I'd prefer that kids have a chance to be kids, but when they are old enough to understand that kind of stuff, it'll just happen. No need to warn ahead or expose them or anything like that, they'll become interested all on their own and, hopefully, ask questions.

 

[Contra(dictory)]

Kids shouldn't be worrying about relationships in general. They should be getting through school and getting there lives together.

I..
err...
Somewhat....agree.
I'd prefer that kids have a chance to be kids, but when they are old enough to understand that kind of stuff, it'll just happen. No need to warn ahead or expose them or anything like that, they'll become interested all on their own and, hopefully, ask questions.

I disagree. Attempting to hide and censor things like romance from children can cause many developmental problems. As a general rule, the more you repress developing children, the worse they tend to be on those subject matters when they're older.

 

[ernesth100]

"Man should not lie with man as he does a woman" doesn't mean what you think it does.

According to the Bible, specifically the Old Testament, women were treated as property. This is why virginity- their purity- were considered key, and why if you wanted to marry a woman, you first had to earn the approval of her father, the man who originally owned her.

This line isn't necessarily a condemnation of homosexuality. It's a condemnation of a man owning another man in a state of submission, like he would a woman.

Sounds pretty...messed up and archaic, doesn't it?

Let's not forget that even under the condition of God existing, humans are not reliable sources when it comes to...anything. There are literally hundreds of thousands of contradictory statements about the events stated in the Christian Bible, and it so happens that people tend to choose what suits them the best. Before science, we didn't have a way to explain anything, so it all had to be the work of supernatural forces outside of our understanding, right?

If you believe in science it's pretty clear that whatever the first organisms were did not reproduce by same sex breeding.

Ah, but the planet is overpopulated, isn't it?

In addition, are you saying that people exist purely to reproduce? That they shouldn't have a choice in the matter, even if they were born in a manner that repulses them from reproduction with the opposite sex?

Well yes, we have to produce so the human race can continue to live.

Kids shouldn't be worrying about relationships in general. They should be getting through school and getting there lives together.

I..
err...
Somewhat....agree.
I'd prefer that kids have a chance to be kids, but when they are old enough to understand that kind of stuff, it'll just happen. No need to warn ahead or expose them or anything like that, they'll become interested all on their own and, hopefully, ask questions.

Holy crap someone agrees with me!

 

[Contra(dictory)]

Well yes, we have to produce so the human race can continue to live.

And, what, you think kids seeing adults of the same gender in romantic relationships is going to make them catch "the gay" and not want to reproduce anymore?

It's not a choice, it's biological. In addition, science is furthering the possibilities of gay couples having children, which defeats your "reproduction" argument even further.

 

[Lin Beifong]

Kids shouldn't be worrying about relationships in general. They should be getting through school and getting there lives together.

I..
err...
Somewhat....agree.
I'd prefer that kids have a chance to be kids, but when they are old enough to understand that kind of stuff, it'll just happen. No need to warn ahead or expose them or anything like that, they'll become interested all on their own and, hopefully, ask questions.

Holy crap someone agrees with me!

So if you feel so strongly about that aspect in particular, why exactly didn't you speak up when Korra x Mako happened in season 1? Or if you didn't see that, the whole Bolin x Opal arc?

 

[GalacticPetey]

Because no one liked Korra x Mako anyway.

 

[Ghost Jam]

Kids shouldn't be worrying about relationships in general. They should be getting through school and getting there lives together.

I..
err...
Somewhat....agree.
I'd prefer that kids have a chance to be kids, but when they are old enough to understand that kind of stuff, it'll just happen. No need to warn ahead or expose them or anything like that, they'll become interested all on their own and, hopefully, ask questions.

I disagree. Attempting to hide and censor things like romance from children can cause many developmental problems. As a general rule, the more you repress developing children, the worse they tend to be on those subject matters when they're older.

No, no, no, not hide or censor, didn't mean that. I'm not for the opposite extreme of shoving it in their face, which I find a lot of parents doing these days. Let'em figure the start out on their own, that half step past "I know my parents are married, but what does that actually mean", then step in and ask if they have questions.

 

[ernesth100]

Well yes, we have to produce so the human race can continue to live.

And, what, you think kids seeing adults of the same gender in romantic relationships is going to make them catch "the gay" and not want to reproduce anymore?

It's not a choice, it's biological. In addition, science is furthering the possibilities of gay couples having children, which defeats your "reproduction" argument even further.

Okay, they can reproduce but still. It's a choice. It's not biological. If someone is gay they've probaly had something happen to them in the past that caused them to be gay.

Because no one liked Korra x Mako anyway.

In general I didn't want Korra to have relationships at all. I wanted her to take up a more responsible role as the avatar and give up on frivolous relationships.

 

[Lin Beifong]

No, no, no, not hide or censor, didn't mean that. I'm not for the opposite extreme of shoving it in their face, which I find a lot of parents doing these days. Let'em figure the start out on their own, that half step past "I know my parents are married, but what does that actually mean", then step in and ask if they have questions.

So I'm going to ask this just for the sake of clarification:

Since this debate was originally about Legend of Korra, do you feel that the show had content that shoved romance in people's faces? Because as it seems now, ernesth100 appears to be calling for exactly that censorship you just now distanced yourself from. Quoting his post and saying "I agree" is sending a mixed message.

 

[Contra(dictory)]

Okay, they can reproduce but still. It's a choice. It's not biological. If someone is gay they've probaly had something happen to them in the past that caused them to be gay.

Homophobic belief backed by not a single ounce of scientific fact, and contradicted by a great amount of it.

 

[ernesth100]

No, no, no, not hide or censor, didn't mean that. I'm not for the opposite extreme of shoving it in their face, which I find a lot of parents doing these days. Let'em figure the start out on their own, that half step past "I know my parents are married, but what does that actually mean", then step in and ask if they have questions.

So I'm going to ask this just for the sake of clarification:

Since this debate was originally about Legend of Korra, do you feel that the show had content that shoved romance in people's faces? Because as it seems now, ernesth100 appears to be calling for exactly that censorship you just now distanced yourself from. Quoting his post and saying "I agree" is sending a mixed message.

How do I feel? I didn't like it. Not one bit.

Okay, they can reproduce but still. It's a choice. It's not biological. If someone is gay they've probaly had something happen to them in the past that caused them to be gay.

Homophobic belief backed by not a single ounce of scientific fact, and contradicted by a great amount of it.

What?

 

[2257]

wow im feeling so attacked right now

 

[Lin Beifong]

No, no, no, not hide or censor, didn't mean that. I'm not for the opposite extreme of shoving it in their face, which I find a lot of parents doing these days. Let'em figure the start out on their own, that half step past "I know my parents are married, but what does that actually mean", then step in and ask if they have questions.

So I'm going to ask this just for the sake of clarification:

Since this debate was originally about Legend of Korra, do you feel that the show had content that shoved romance in people's faces? Because as it seems now, ernesth100 appears to be calling for exactly that censorship you just now distanced yourself from. Quoting his post and saying "I agree" is sending a mixed message.

How do I feel? I didn't like it. Not one bit.

I am already aware of your dubious, intolerant stance on the matter. I was asking Ghost Jam because he really should not be grouped together with someone like you.

 

[Contra(dictory)]

What?

The consensus among the scientific community is that homosexuality is not, in fact, a choice. You don't even need science to prove it- when did you decide to be straight? At what point in your development did you decide you would only be attracted to women?

The only times when science says otherwise is, conveniently, when people of shady qualifications in the paybooks of far-Right, Christian organizations determined to make the world believe that homosexuality isn't just a sin, it's an active and malicious choice to defy everyone else's lifestyles.

Even if it were a choice, what difference does that make? Why should your beliefs be allowed to legally restrict other people? Why aren't other groups allowed to be represented as much as straight people?

If you're going to cling to The Bible as the reason for your homophobia, you'd better follow that shit to the T. You can't pick and choose- stop eating pork, stop wearing mixed fabrics, start stoning heretics, raping women and keeping slaves, like the Bible says.

 

[ernesth100]

I decided to be straight because I saw that girls were attractive.
Just like a gay man might decide he thinks men are attractive thus he is gay.

 

[Daniel Dyce]

What made you decide that Girls were attractive
please describe what must have been an exhausting process that led you to decide the women were attractive.