A Dilemma for Future Smash Bros. Games

Which would you prefer?

  • All or Most of the characters from Smash 4 simply ported over with few changes in the next game

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • Everything brand new, even making veterans from scratch, at the risk of losing some well-liked addit

    Votes: 6 35.3%
  • A Compromise between the two (Specify what you mean below)

    Votes: 5 29.4%

  • Total voters
    17

SonicMario

Star Spirit
Barring some situation where Nintendo decides to have someone else add more DLC after Sakurai has officially left development of Smash 4 to pursue his next project. Smash 4 is entirely done with adding new characters to Smash 4. Leaving the final total characters at 58. Which is a number thought impossible even among optimistic views of the roster for Smash 4. It's a really large roster and has the largest amount of added newcomers of any Smash game.

But now, here comes a bit of a dilemma in regards to the next Smash game. 58 is alot of characters especially for a game that boasts such character depth for a vast majority of them like Smash. It doesn't matter if you've been developing games your whole life or not. Trying to bring all those characters plus add a decent amount of new characters for a new game is alot on your shoulders. As not only when bringing them to a new game you have to balance them and possibly address issues such as complaints of how viable (On either side of the spectrum) they were in the previous game and balance the new characters while keeping them faithful to their games. Sakurai has said himself that games these days have become alot more difficult to make then they were even as far as just a decade ago. And the more effort that's needed to complete a full game, only the truly dedicated people would be left to design the game and sometimes that's not enough. Especially when it comes to expectations from the fans.

So the question is this: Would it be preferable to have the next Smash, possibly even all future Smash games, to simply port the characters over from Smash 4 if possible with relatively few changes so that most if not all the characters are back?. And even with that, if there is not enough time to bring everyone back, the fact DLC has been brought into Smash can come into play in case people really want some of their favorites from Smash 4 back. And Nintendo could even add some more new ones beyond even what Smash 4 brought us. Simply porting around 50 characters from Smash 4 to the next game would make many people happy and it's still give the developers time to focus more on whatever Newcomers are added to the game and even work on some fantastic new modes. The only problem is that taking it to this level gets the criticism of the developers being too lazy and may make the next Smash game feel like "Smash 4 2.0" instead of a full on Smash 5

The other option would to have everything done from scratch but at possibly the cost of losing alot of characters (And I mean quite a bit as in so much that they can't possibly just bring everyone back through DLC in favor of newer, more relevant characters). Even ones that are generally considered safe returns in order to make the next game feel truly different. Cause if you work on everything from the ground up, no doubt the developers would look down upon bringing all 58 characters from Smash 4 back in the Main Game. This is something where the developers can really get a focus at what they want for the next game instead of possibly just basing the game mostly on the previous one that would make some people feel they're going cheap on the process of bringing out Smash games. But it may break the hearts of many who loved any of the cut characters as every Smash character has fans that have some degree of attachment to them.

This is has just been something on my mind after DLC has officially finished when I just think about just how huge the roster of Smash 4 is and what impact it may have on the future of Smash considering people were hoping for little-to-no cuts between Brawl and Smash 4 too (For the exception of Wolf, Snake, Ice Climbers, and two of the three Pokemon Trainer pokemon we got that). If the next game isn't going to be simply porting over characters then there's no possible way they bring everyone from Smash 4 back and will no doubt probably have the largest amount of cut characters unless there's a promise to bring everyone else back through DLC. At the same time though the other side has a point in having the games feel truly different from what another. As while the differences between Brawl and Smash 4 are considered the smallest difference between each and every game in the series it still plays much differently enough for Smash 4 to be it's own game even with the rumors that much of the characters that were in Brawl that are in Smash 4 may have been somewhat ported over.

There's been talk that they've kinda already have been porting characters over, especially when Sakurai implied they may have tried to bring Mewtwo from Melee back that way but the technology was too obsolete to do properly so they built Mewtwo from scratch (While still keeping him faithful to how he fought in Melee). And if that's the case, then the question is should they continue to port characters like this so that we make sure a good majority come back? I think it's an interesting debate as Smash 4's speculation dies down and we look towards what the next game could bring years ahead of us.

We have no idea what the situation will be by the time Smash 5 starts nor do we know if Sakurai will even be the director of it. And we have no idea what side of this would a new director take it as it could be either/or. Cause it could be the porting so that alot of what Sakurai's done for the series hasn't gone to waste and it makes people happy with the new director that they brought most of the characters back. On the other hand the new director may have an entirely different vision of Smash Bros. then Sakurai does and want to do things his way. And that may include changing up everything from top-to-bottom, including cutting characters that only Sakurai had the vision to bring-to-life as fighters.

This is a vastly important question regarding the future of Smash Bros. that I feel definitely needs to be discussed. And should a Smash 5 be announced years from now, we can look back and see what they eventually went with.
 
I'd like a few creative changes to Mario's moveset, namely changing his Up-B to F.L.U.D.D. or maybe change Mario's moveset to make it more power-up based. But otherwise, his moveset is heavily inspired from the games to begin with, but I'd just like changes. Make him an excellent jumper, make his recovery better, but he's otherwise a pretty solid character. Finally, Mario should just sound and look like himself. He's sunshine and rainbows, not whatever Smash is doing with him right now.

Otherwise, overhauling EVERYTHING would take way too much resources because you also have to balance all of that, and so much other things. Making a moveset is so time consuming and probably uses resources. The most realistic thing is to expect some overhauls, some ports, so I chose a mix between the two. Finally, they shouldn't fix what isn't broken. They also have a working engine they can heavily modify and do other things, so I don't see the point in making one out of scratch.
 
One thing that's different about this game compared to other fighters is that players have a lot more history and attachment to these characters. In another fighter like Mortal Kombat, a character can be cut and people will be upset, but another character can come long and fill a similar niche, and most will get over it. With Smash, a lot of people play these characters because of who they are and what games they come from. Characters are also chosen to represent Nintendo and its history. This makes cutting characters a very difficult thing. People got up in arms when Roy was cut. Could you imagine the backlash if a bigger character like Diddy Kong or Sheik was cut?

I already dislike cutting characters in general since I know everyone of them has a large fanbase, and I hate losing unique movesets (still salty about ice Climbers and Snake). Making nearly 60 characters from scratch will not be feasible for the next game if Sakurai (or whoever) also wants to include a bunch of newcomers. Porting assets is the best way to go. That's not to say certain characters couldn't get large revamps like Bowser and Pit did, but I think reusing stuff is the way to go. As ong as charactesr are balanced and tweaked and not just slapped into a new game with a new engine. For example, if the new game was Melee-esque, a lot of the characters would need to be tweaked and balance to do better in that sort of environment.

One thing I know for sure is that as long as Sakuari is in charge, we won't see characters cut during development to be sold as DLC later. I've seen some people suggest having the base roster be made up of less characters with a lot of old vets being sold as DLC. He's stated that he dislikes the practice of making a game and chopping up content to sell for an additional fee later. He stated that all the DLC was planned and created after development ceased. The one thing that was cut during development was the Miiverse stage, which was added for free.

So yeah, I say port over all the old characters, tweak them as necessary, and focus on the new characters.
 
Most movesets should stay the same, but a fair amount of tweaks should be added to keep things fresh.

I do think Nintendo went a bit overboard with the characters in Smash 4, but I do have a strong opinion (The good type) on several newcomers. I do wish that they balance the next roster.
 
Hmmm... I don't know. I mean, I do have some strong opinions about many characters in Smash 4. Let's see...

I absolutely hate and despise the addition of Cloud. That shit doesn't make any sense at all. Cloud never appeared on a Nintendo console and it's yet ANOTHER third-party character with a sword that doesn't fit in Smash in the slightest.

Dark Pit is the most ridiculous character ever. He's just Pit's model with a different color palette and a tweak or two in his moveset. He doesn't bring anything new to the table and is only there because of Sakurai's bias towards his own characters.

Ryu is an iconic character in the gaming universe and has a very original moveset, but he still doesn't fit in Smash at all, just like Cloud and Snake.

So, if it were up to me, I would cut these two characters. Lucina and Dr. Mario would also get the axe. The thing is that I know how much it hurts to have your main cut because I went through that TWICE when Mewtwo and Lucas were initially cut in Brawl and Smash 4, and luckily I got them both back. I wouldn't like doing that to anybody. Hell, I still can't get over the Ice Climbers being gone and I didn't even use them. It's just not fair.

Now, when it comes to newcomers...

-Toad: Come on. The one main Mario character that is not playable in Smash. I'm sure they can do something amazing with him. Peach's B move isn't a problem, they could have another Toad that looks exactly the same for all I care. After all, we do have two characters with the exact same name in Smash 4 (Roy).

-Paper Mario: because his potential could be infinite. Paper Mario is really successful and one of the sub-series that fans love the most. He could have a very creative moveset (which I hope is based on all Paper Mario games and not just awful Sticker Star just for being the most recent one).

-Inkling: It's obvious they'll appear in Smash 5 with Splatoon being so freaking successful and popular. Their moveset will be really complex, I'm calling it.

-King. K Rool, Dixie Kong AND Cranky Kong: because they're iconic and the Donkey Kong series is pretty underrepresented, which is unfair given how iconic and popular it is. Each of them could have a pretty unique moveset.

-Ridley: at this rate I don't even have to explain. Easily the most requested character ever. I don't care if he's too big, they're smart enough to make him work.

-Peppy and Slippy (separately of course): because if Fire Emblem, a series that became somewhat popular pretty much overnight, has 6 FREAKING REPS, why not Star Fox? Being one of Nintendo's most iconic franchises, I think it would only be logical to have the whole Star Fox team in Smash by now, especially with Star Fox Zero approaching us. I would give them unique movesets, just like the one they created for Fox back in Smash 64.

-Impa: because I think Zelda needs more reps and she's the only one I think deserves to be in that's known enough. They could have her with a moveset similar to the one she has in Hyrule Warriors or they could come up with something different so she's not that similar to Sheik.

-Sceptile: this is only a placeholder, since it's a fact that we're going to get a new Pokémon in every Smash game, and it's going to be a popular one. By the time Smash 5 comes out, we will surely get the most popular Pokémon from Gen VII (or maybe even VIII), just like when we got Lucario and Greninja. Sceptile WOULD be really cool though, and it would complete the trio of starting types represented by fully evolved starters.

I'd also make Wolf, Ice Climbers, Squirtle and Ivysaur return. Yeah, that would make a whopping 9 Pokémon reps, but Sakurai has already shown us he doesn't give a damn and the so-called character-per-series limit we thought existed back in Brawl is not a thing. Heck, I once dreamed Pichu returned and they buffed him tremendously and gave him a brand-new moveset different from Pikachu's; he hurt himself with many of his own moves like in Melee and that made him reach rage status faster, turning him into a complete killing machine. I'd be down for that too.
 
Anser said:
it's yet ANOTHER third-party character with a sword that doesn't fit in Smash in the slightest.

???

Uh... isn't Cloud the only 3rd Party that uses a Sword? :???:
 
I kinda figured, just the wording of it all.

I'm afraid though that you may want to get used to 3rd Party additions. Considering we went from 2 to 6 3rd Parties, I don't see Nintendo slowing down possible Non-Nintendo characters anytime soon when the next Smash rolls around (Speaking of which you mention your opinions on Cloud and Ryu, yet you said nothing about Bayonetta. To be honest as much as I'm ok with all these 3rd Parties getting in the game. If Cloud makes me feel like he makes Snake make more sense then Bayonetta does the same for Cloud IMO)

And say what you will about too many swordfighters. Cloud's sword is no ordinary sword, not only does it's sheer size make it different in many ways from the usually slim straight ones most Fire Emblem characters have. But his sword (The Buster Sword to be exact) is one of the most iconic gaming weapons. It's probably up there with the Master Sword for well-known video game weaponry. (And hey, at least Cloud doesn't have a counter. To be honest there's probably more characters with a counter of some way then there are sword users)
 
Idk bayonetta made a bit more sense to me considering bayonetta 2 was on wii u

But I'm still fine with Cloud appearing. It's not like PlayStation will make another fighter anytime soon (although if they did, please get Cloud guys also crash)
 
Magikrazy said:
Idk bayonetta made a bit more sense to me considering bayonetta 2 was on wii u

But I'm still fine with Cloud appearing. It's not like PlayStation will make another fighter anytime soon (although if they did, please get Cloud guys also crash)

I'm just saying since Cloud has the whole face of Final Fantasy thing going for him when Final Fantasy was once huge for Nintendo back in the day.

Still though the whole thing of him being alot more famous for Sony systems is why suddenly Snake doesn't feel as strange of an inclusion because at least Snake did have some games release on Nintendo systems. Including his debut on the NES.

And as much as Bayonetta 2 being on Wii U does help, Bayonetta's also not a legendary franchise on the level of Metal Gear or Final Fantasy yet. At least they didn't go full this way by bringing in Shovel Knight (Which would of been way too soon). It still opens the door for 3rd Party characters that are recognizable, but not gaming icons overall. You could still argue that after Snake and Cloud, Bayonetta not so much.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not upset by Bayonetta's inclusion. I just think objectively she's the least deserving 3rd Party yet.