Super Mario Boards

Ray Trace
Ray Trace
I've immediately come across a problem:

"Objective judgement - how good or bad you think the game is regardless of personal liking"

I'll break down of this definition. The word "objective" is factual. It means, it talks about data surrounding the game: think of a MarioWiki article. Its job is to report information. "Good" and "bad" are entirely subjective adjectives describing a perceived quality of the game, and "you think" is also another subjective phrase and thus entirely contradicts your statement. If you replace your phrase "objective judgement" with "subjective judgment" the definition actually fits better. What exactly IS the criteria to hold this opinion for your review to be "objective"? Why would you think the game is good or bad despite personal liking? Is this judgement based of peer opinion of the game? Because it sounds like it is. Especially when you take in "what the developers considered"? And additionally, what if you read a review that still heavily dislikes Mario Kart Wii, all things considered? The racing genre isn't for everyone, there are simply people who dislike Mario Kart Wii.

It is a good thing to litter your review with context and whatnot, that increases the quality of your subjective review, yes, but it doesn't make it more objective. I've told you before that you need to change the mindset of reviews being objective if you want to get better at writing reviews, because none of them will be objective, they're almost always opinion based: after all, the primary point of a review is to provide readers with the author's opinion of the game.

You cannot have an objective review. Those qualities you mention as "objective", they're also subjective as well. The phrase "objective opinion" is an oxymoron, because "objective" is fact-based. Really, any time anyone uses the adjective "objective" to describe subjectivity and this is especially true when you put it behind the noun "opinion", all it does is highlight their insecurities to me because I know that you can dislike a game for any reason, and you invalidate other peoples' views on the game as well because their view doesn't fit your mold of a review.
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
I just said that at the start to summarise it and I clarified it later

I said later that I don't consider factual and objective to be the same. To me factual means that it's the truth and that's that. Whereas objective means it's not to do with personal opinion, even if people might have opinions and there is no simple truth which can't be disagreed with.

The criteria I consider are: was the game intended to be something that could likely become very popular and regarded by many as a very good game? Is it something that would appeal to a wide audience or a narrow one? Is it executed in such a way that this goal is likely to be satisfied? Does it have the properties that would make it entertaining to many people? Can I recommend the game?

What I consider an objectively good game in general would correlate to the popularity of the game but not necessarily, since as I say, fans might for instance expect something they shouldn't have.

If I read a negative review on MKW it would depend on why they said it was bad. If they just said it wasn't their taste (indeed it wasn't my taste either) then that's simply the way it is, if they don't like it they don't like it. But if they actually criticise say the controls of the game, then I say actually they seem to be refined, they have a selection between motion (which seems to attract a lot of the casual audience so I regard as good even though I hate using it myself) and a joystick which is more refined so is another positive point. So I say it's not really a flaw with the game per se but just personal preference, and inevitably there's going to be some people who hate the controls

I admit it won't ever be perfectly objective, because I am human, but I still don't see any harm trying just lessening the emphasis on my personal liking. That's all I really mean when I say it's objective. I don't consider it objective in the same way that the population of london or the melting point of steel is, where they're just numbers that can't be objected to and aren't affected by factors that can differ person to person. I'm DEFINITELY not trying to invalidate other peoples' views or say that everything I think is right and everyone else is wrong.
Ray Trace
Ray Trace
That's not how definitions work. Factual and objective statements are synonyms. It doesn't matter how much you try to twist the definitions to meet your personal criteria of what it constitutes: if you attempt this, you poorly communicate an idea. Please use a different term, "objective" is not the adjective you're looking for.
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
OK. I'm cautious of inventing my own vocabulary and being annoying or confusing, but I hope you get me
Raiko Horikawa
Raiko Horikawa
"I admit it won't ever be perfectly objective, because I am human, but I still don't see any harm trying just lessening the emphasis on my personal liking. That's all I really mean when I say it's objective. I don't consider it objective in the same way that the population of london or the melting point of steel is, where they're just numbers that can't be objected to and aren't affected by factors that can differ person to person. I'm DEFINITELY not trying to invalidate other peoples' views or say that everything I think is right and everyone else is wrong."

it's not objective for the exact reasons you state there

it is completely, 100% fine and dandy to try and avoid putting your own personal opinions into your writings, or to put in your personal opinions (mach speed mayhem is subjective as fuck when it comes to the anime and i feel no shame). those are different review types and it's perfectly reasonable

the only problem comes in calling it an "objective" review. the emphasis on using this one particular word creates a false, unattainable impression. call it what it is, "a review where i try to avoid using my personal opinions" or something like that. you don't need to get fixated on "objective" as the adjective

e: and then blof said it in half the time and size i did
Ray Trace
Ray Trace
I understood you, that's why I gave a pretty elaborate critique on your profile. I'm certain I wouldn't be the only one who would point out what I said in my comment, it's also imperative you learn proper vocabulary before you use them.
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
You're right, I mean I don't think it's wrong, at least not completely, because


But you're right that I should be still be careful about being clear on what I mean and I'm not invalidating other people's opinions
Ray Trace
Ray Trace
Well thinking a game is "good" in spite of your personal opinions is still being heavily influenced by your personal experience and tastes before hand. There's still a clear bias in your Mario Kart Wii review, and while it's not as heavily bias, it's still there and you can't escape from it.
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
I know, I can't escape from it, I'm just trying to keep it to a minimum
Ray Trace
Ray Trace
Oh, and saying "Mario Kart Wii is good" is also influenced by bias as well: it's biased towards Nintendo games and the Mario series, because you were already heavily familiar with the series so you'd tend to rate games from it a bit more favorably than games you're completely unfamiliar with.
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
Gloriosa Daisy
@Redshift do you think "nonpersonal" might be a more apt term?
Ray Trace
Ray Trace
It's better than objective, that's what I know.
LeftyGreenMario
LeftyGreenMario
"Fair" might be the word you're looking for.
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