Miracle Reviews some games she played

New Super Mario Bros. (NDS) vs New Super Mario Bros. Wii

Yay I found a fairer competition for 2D Mario!

Convenience/Portability: DS, because well, it's on the DS
Controls: Wii. You get to use a nunchuck if desired, which idk a lot of people seem to prefer to the d pad. Plus the motion controls were neatly implemented.
Gameplay elements: Wii. Though we lost the mega mushroom and the blue shell, I'd argue it's an improvement overall, with the propeller mushroom, ice flower, midair twirl, and I guess Yoshi as well though he wasn't that great and was underused tbh.
Multiplayer: Wii. We got to have multiple people in the same course at once at any point in the main story, which was really great
Length: I believe Wii is longer? If so it wins.
Balancing: Wii. DS seemed generally easy all around, whereas Wii was a game that could be very aptly challenging when it needed to, though it started easy enough and was very much beatable for a child.
Postgame: Wii because world 9 whereas DS didn't really have any iirc.
Extras: DS. That game had genuinely great minigames whereas in Wii the coin battle and free play were kinda lame.
Level design: Probably Wii. They were both great, but Wii (despite a few minor issues such as emptiness that DS didn't have) just felt a little more creative and genius overall. Hard to judge though.
Graphics: Wii no doubt - the DS very much limited NSMBDS graphically whereas NSMBW was quite good even by Wii standards.
Story: DS, solely for
Bowser getting in the lava and coming back as Dry Bowser and all that
Characters: DS. In addition to what's in the above spoiler tags, we had more original enemies and bosses iirc.
Music: Wii. Overall it felt cleaner without the DS audio restrictions and idk I just recall this game having more variety and tracks that were particularly impressive like World 9 Map or the final boss theme.
Dialogue: Once again a tie due to both having essentially none.

One additional note as I didn't really know where to put this: The saving thing in DS was annoying as you'd lose a few levels of progress due only being able to save at towers, castles, or world warps, an issue Wii significantly improved due to the Quick Save feature.

Verdict: Wii. It's simply the better game in most ways. Some people say NSMB series is too repetitive but really I do think Wii improves DS in general, though it might have been nice to have more originality, particularly in the story.
 
docs.google.com

Super Paper Mario review by MiracleDinner

Super Paper Mario After the acclaimed Paper Mario 64 and the even more acclaimed Paper Mario: The Thousand-Year Door, Nintendo’s third Paper Mario game had the community more divided. Indeed, Super Paper Mario is from my experience one of the most controversial Mario games (though I do feel that...
docs.google.com docs.google.com
 
I do respect your opinion on the game and I'm glad you enjoyed it. The individual sections of the review were good, but the way you weighed them in your verdict...I get that you liked the story and presentation, but the gameplay is the defining feature of a game and if the gameplay gets a 7/10 then the game overall shouldn't be getting a 9/10. This is the thing about "nonpersonal" reviews--a factor may not matter as much to you, but it will to other people. 8/10 would be a more reasonable score.

Personally? Maybe I've been a bit harsh on it--I do like the game, it has some fun ideas. But it never went above and beyond its predecessors to me. The game, and I'll say it again, tries to be two genres at the same time and doesn't do exceptionally well in either of them. Real-time combat just wasn't as fun, the level design could have used more variety, and the 3D mechanic was just so underused. It's decent, but that's just it--other Paper Marios were more than decent. I did like the story, too, but to me, it just didn't feel like Mario, and I think I would have liked it more if there were more established Mario characters alongside the original ones. I like the game and admire that it tried for something different, but the end result just never went above and beyond. Overall, I'd give the game a 7/10.
 
Thank you for your feedback YFJ!

Varian said:
the gameplay is the defining feature of a game and if the gameplay gets a 7/10 then the game overall shouldn't be getting a 9/10.
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For gaming in general maybe, but this is Paper Mario. As a huge fan of the series, I've read a lot of people's opinions on it (though I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable) and I can say that we really do care about story and presentation, and that when we remember games like TTYD which almost all of us loved, I see at least as many people who've been moved by non-gameplay stuff than gameplay stuff. There seem to be many (though by no means all) fans who forgave SPM and/or would be willing to forgive SS and CS for their (in their opinion) gameplay for a good story, and I really do think that story and presentation can improve a game very much even if the gameplay isn't that great. So nonpersonally, I wouldn't say the gameplay is the most important thing, at least not by far.

Varian said:
But it never went above and beyond its predecessors to me
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Once I have TTYD done here I'll be doing SPM vs TTYD (which as my top 2 fav VGs is going to be a VERY difficult comparison for me to make without personal stuff). But I get that people have personal opinions even when we do talk about the same games nonpersonally so I respect your opinion if you liked the first two and/or the last two more.

Varian said:
Personally? Maybe I've been a bit harsh on it--I do like the game, it has some fun ideas. But it never went above and beyond its predecessors to me. The game, and I'll say it again, tries to be two genres at the same time and doesn't do exceptionally well in either of them. Real-time combat just wasn't as fun, the level design could have used more variety, and the 3D mechanic was just so underused. It's decent, but that's just it--other Paper Marios were more than decent. I did like the story, too, but to me, it just didn't feel like Mario, and I think I would have liked it more if there were more established Mario characters alongside the original ones. I like the game and admire that it tried for something different, but the end result just never went above and beyond. Overall, I'd give the game a 7/10.
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I get it. I understand why personally you don't like the game as much as me. But I hope you understand why I do, and that you can agree with me nonpersonally

Varian said:
8/10 would be a more reasonable score.
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Meh je pense pas. The numerical average of 10, 8, and 9 is 8.67, which is closer to 9 than 10 (I don't always think the overall score should be the average of the individual parts, but still I'm pointing it out.) I know you said that gameplay should be the most important thing earlier, but honestly I really don't think the gameplay drags it down enough to be an 8. Yes I do use half scores sometimes, but only when I really can't decide between two, and I'd definitely put this one closer to 9 than 8 - despite not being phenomenal gameplay wise it's still a unique and otherworldy adventure which has a lot of positive qualities.
 
Super Paper Mario vs. New Super Mario Bros. Wii

I still remember being 8 years old and having to decide between three games to choose two as xmas presents. Those three games were new super mario bros. wii, super paper mario, and bowser's inside story. I chose the first two. The 25th comes around, I think "I'll try 30 mins of NSMBW and 30 mins of SPM." But NSMBW was so cool I didn't want to stop, I carried on playing for a few days. After all my parents looked at Super Paper Mario and were like "you sure you want that silly paper one, it doesn't look very good." but nah I chose it anyway. But yeah it didn't look that cool tbh. And then my brother played it and I walked in on him and that very second it hit me THIS GAME IS FREAKING AMAZING I HAVE TO PLAY IT RIGHT NOW and oh my god I was not dissappointed

Ahem... so both games are games which in big part are 2D Mario platformers for the Wii and nonpersonally I've decided that they're both pretty good games, but let's compare them! I'm going for the kind of platformer structure rather than RPG as that's what they more have in common.

Convenience/Portability: I would say NSMBW. Its levels seem more bite sized and allow more frequent saving whereas SPM is a lot more of a chunky level game and only lets you save at save blocks. A minor advantage but worthy of note nonetheless.
Controls: NSMBW. In addition to the option to use a nunchuck, the game itself has tighter controls internally, allowing the player to feel more in control of Mario.
Gameplay elements: SPM by a long shot. In addition to flipping we had the character switching and the HP system and things like keys and cards and pixls and a lot of stuff that generally allowed the gameplay to be a lot more creative. SPM has a variety of interesting gameplay elements which Mario has never encountered before whereas NSMBW's are solid but not really special in any way.
Multiplayer: NSMBW because multiplayer actually exists and not only that is pretty good
Length: I definitely feel SPM was at least a little short whereas NSMBW seems to be a more satisfactory length
Balancing: NSMBW easily. That game actually does the balancing really well in its accessibility to less experienced players but ability to get genuinely challenging. Whereas SPM is generally right, starts easy and gets harder and has even harder side quests, but the battle system is very much broken, and the level design isn't as positively challenging
Postgame: It's very hard to choose, but I'm going to say SPM as the pit of 100 trials was legitamately great even though the cards and recipes were tedious, and I guess the maps were alright. NSMBW does have decent postgame, but aside from a few world 9 stages which I mean I don't see them as that rewarding, other than that it is just replaying old levels to get the star coins
Extras: SPM for its legit cool arcade games rather than just the free play and coin battle which really weren't that great in NSMBW.
Level design: Very easily NSMBW. That game had consistently great level design which was always apt and well thought out, besides a few minor issues it was very good overall and challenged the player in an entertaining way. SPM on the other hand, was heavily flawed in some areas and at its best was kinda interesting but nothing incredible. I don't think SPM's level design was bad overall but it's miles behind most of the main series games including NSMBW.
Graphics: NSMBW. It looks cleaner and more detailed whereas SPM's graphics were OK but nothing to write home about
Story: imagine SPM as super dimentio and nsmbw as a fly he's sitting on
Characters: Now imagine he got out a fly swatter
Music: SPM. NSMBW had some genuinely great tunes believe me but SPM was just really good. It's very hard not to be biased here, but I'm listening to SPM ost right now and it's really good, it is full of character and emotion and there is scarecely a track I wish to skip. NSMBW on the other hand seems to have a few which I like but not that many.
Dialogue: SPM, because good dialogue existed in that game

Verdict: This has definitely been the most difficult comparison I've had to make so far because these two have strengths and differences in very different ways. But I'm going to choose Super Paper Mario as our winner. Whilst SPM had cool gameplay elements I think the other things NSMBW does right and especially its superior level design, make it a better game as a game. Whereas SPM had the amazing story and everything which is appreciable but isn't part of the gameplay itself. I think the matter of which is better really depends on how much non gameplay stuff is valued which is... quite controversial. Whilst I don't claim to be the most knowledgeable, I really do think that non gameplay stuff can give MaRPGs a huge boost, I know tons of people who love SPM so much more because of its story. Overall therefore, I'd say SPM's non gameplay elements place it ahead of NSMBW, though the comparison is difficult, because SPM goes above and beyond with feeling like a truly magical and unique experience rather than just NSMBW which feels like a generic Mario game, even if its level design is better
 
In my opinion, Dialogue and Story should fall under the same rating category. Dialogue is a part of the writing, and the writing is essentially what makes the story in the first place. To have a separate rating for dialogue is also kinda unfair for games with no dialogue getting pit against those that do.
 
Rinka Hayami said:
In my opinion, Dialogue and Story should fall under the same rating category. Dialogue is a part of the writing, and the writing is essentially what makes the story in the first place. To have a separate rating for dialogue is also kinda unfair for games with no dialogue getting pit against those that do.
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The story is kind of the plot at its core whereas the dialogue is how cleverly its crafted to present humour/emotion/personality/etc. So I'd say they're distinct, as it's possible for a game to have one being good whilst the other being bad (at least in one direction)