Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions

[ArchagentEverlasting]

For some reason, Miyamoto hates anything that's different for the Mario series story-wise, so they've been slowly making the games less creative in that department.

When it comes to Mario, stick with the characters, but look somewhere else if you want story.

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Thank you!

 

[GmanSir]

I think there is a gravitation towards staying safe and predictable in Mario games, and that has hurt a lot of subseries that used to take risks and end up better for it.

Lol. What risks did the sports and party games make?

 

[Time Turner]

I think there is a gravitation towards staying safe and predictable in Mario games, and that has hurt a lot of subseries that used to take risks and end up better for it.

Lol. What risks did the sports and party games make?

Mario Tennis used to have creativity and originality. Now it's barebones beyond the characters.

 

[Glowsquid]

Because they made the Koopa sprite from the ground up for Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, they could have easily gave them flight suits while they were at it. So it's not a resource management/time/budget or even a laziness issue. They deliberately choose to make them generic Koopas instead of flight suit Koopas.

They created one new asset so this mean they can't possibly skimp out on any other aspects of the game's graphics and are consciously denying gamers the iconic koopa flight suit because this was way too bold and radical for a remake of a game where one of the boss is a genderbent bowser with visible breasts

This is obviously miyamoto's fault because internet message boards have conditioned me to blame old Japanese men for any midly upseting development.

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

Because they made the Koopa sprite from the ground up for Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, they could have easily gave them flight suits while they were at it. So it's not a resource management/time/budget or even a laziness issue. They deliberately choose to make them generic Koopas instead of flight suit Koopas.

They created one new asset so this mean they can't possibly skimp out on any other aspects of the game's graphics and are consciously denying gamers the iconic koopa flight suit because this was way too bold and radical for a remake of a game where one of the boss is a genderbent bowser with visible breasts

This is obviously miyamoto's fault because internet message boards have conditioned me to blame old Japanese men for any midly upseting development.

It's indirectly Miyamoto's fault due to him wanting Mario to stay simple for reasons still unknown.

 

[Time Turner]

Because they made the Koopa sprite from the ground up for Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, they could have easily gave them flight suits while they were at it. So it's not a resource management/time/budget or even a laziness issue. They deliberately choose to make them generic Koopas instead of flight suit Koopas.

They created one new asset so this mean they can't possibly skimp out on any other aspects of the game's graphics and are consciously denying gamers the iconic koopa flight suit because this was way too bold and radical for a remake of a game where one of the boss is a genderbent bowser with visible breasts

This is obviously miyamoto's fault because internet message boards have conditioned me to blame old Japanese men for any midly upseting development.

It's indirectly Miyamoto's fault due to him wanting Mario to stay simple for reasons still unknown.

Hoisting literally all of this on Miyamoto is rather silly. He isn't a puppetmaster who gets absolute control over everything in Nintendo.

 

[Glowsquid]

It's indirectly Miyamoto's fault due to him wanting Mario to stay simple for reasons still unknown.

my entire post was mocking the idea a minor set of sprite was removed "because Miyamoto hates different things" (while far more radical departures from the usual Mario style were kept in) rather than any more probable reason an obviously rushed game released for a systen nearing the end of its life might lack it

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

Because they made the Koopa sprite from the ground up for Superstar Saga + Bowser's Minions, they could have easily gave them flight suits while they were at it. So it's not a resource management/time/budget or even a laziness issue. They deliberately choose to make them generic Koopas instead of flight suit Koopas.

They created one new asset so this mean they can't possibly skimp out on any other aspects of the game's graphics and are consciously denying gamers the iconic koopa flight suit because this was way too bold and radical for a remake of a game where one of the boss is a genderbent bowser with visible breasts

This is obviously miyamoto's fault because internet message boards have conditioned me to blame old Japanese men for any midly upseting development.

It's indirectly Miyamoto's fault due to him wanting Mario to stay simple for reasons still unknown.

Hoisting literally all of this on Miyamoto is rather silly. He isn't a puppetmaster who gets absolute control over everything in Nintendo.

Still, people in Nintendo rely heavily on his advice due to his experience, and often times he will encourage them to remove story and stuff like that. Like in Super Mario Galaxy 2, or Paper Mario.

 

[Paper Mario]

Everyone here knows the facts, and we've been through this song and dance too many times than I'd like to admit. I don't like some of the changes either but I don't think it's fair to assume Miyamoto had the team at gunpoint to remove originality. He has some ideas that I disagree with, but I highly doubt he's as forceful of them as is often assumed.

Can we please not have another war over this? ArchagentEverlasting, I know you had no way of knowing any of this so I apologize but yeah I used to dwell on very similar details and it was unpleasant for everyone. And I don't want to see anyone else get to the point I was at. I completely understand where you're coming from but complaining on this forum isn't going to accomplish anything but raised tensions.

 

[Ray Trace]

I will when someone points me to evidence that he doesn't hate these things. He told the Sticker Star team to only have characters from the main games, and he removed a lot of story stuff from Super Mario Galaxy 2.

First of all "hate" is an extreme word to use. He thinks that it's an area of focus that Mario shouldn't be highlighted on, and other facets are far more prioritized than it. That doesn't make him "hate" story at all.

He told the Sticker Star team to use characters from the main games, and yet Intelligent Systems excluded a crapton characters that already exist, like Yoshis, Piantas, Nokis, friendly enemies, etc. This isn't Miyamoto's fault that the head of IS isn't creative enough to use the colorful cast of characters Mario already has.

And yeah, because the first Galaxy was totally known for its gripping story of Peach is kidnapped, go rescue her.....Galaxy 2 had a myriad of recycled problems to begin with, but story is among the least of it.

Please stop thinking Miyamoto "hates" these things.

 

[LeftyGreenMario]

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

Mario Tennis used to have creativity and originality. Now it's barebones beyond the characters.

I wouldn't even argue that it's original and creative; it just has good content and has those little extras like trophy sequences, character interactions, the long opening, and others that were really charming. Even Ultra Smash had serious flashes of charm (Waluigi's animations for goodness sake, they're beautiful); it was just bogged down by the barebones content.

 

[Time Turner]

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

I definitely agree with you in that the entire franchise, or even this game, isn't going to shift gears and become the next Witcher 3 or anything anytime soon. At the same time, as the franchise grows and more studios start to take the reins, it's only a matter of time until there's at least one game where story is prioritised just as much as gameplay. Gotta keep the fans on their toes, after all.

 

[Mcmadness]

I just don't see the point since all Mario stories just wind up being mediocre at best so no sense in bothering with what you aren't good at.


On a completely different note, I do wonder how beans will work this time and whether or not we'll get a level-up bonus.

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

I will when someone points me to evidence that he doesn't hate these things. He told the Sticker Star team to only have characters from the main games, and he removed a lot of story stuff from Super Mario Galaxy 2.

And yeah, because the first Galaxy was totally known for its gripping story of Peach is kidnapped, go rescue her.....

Super Mario Galaxy had Rosalina's backstory, though, which was very interesting.

also come on we need a scapegoat

 

[Ray Trace]

Interesting, but it wasn't necessary or even why Super Mario Galaxy was an amazing game. I wasn't shedding any tears over the lack of that with Super Mario Galaxy 2. Hell, even if Super Mario Galaxy 2 had an equally interesting back-story, I'd still hate Super Mario Gaalxy 2.

 

[Paper Mario]

On a completely different note, I do wonder how beans will work this time and whether or not we'll get a level-up bonus.

This seems to suggest beans will still make coffee:

I don't see why they could remove level up bonuses either, unless to balance the fact that the Bros. can bounce on an enemy twice with a normal jump.

 

[Mcmadness]

Well it's always made the games way too easy to break so I could see them removing it like they did in PJ.

 

[Ray Trace]

It should be a post-game thing, because I think the Starbeans Cafe buffs are hilarious as hell.

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

I just don't see the point since all Mario stories just wind up being mediocre at best so no sense in bothering with what you aren't good at.

Well, they won't ever get better at it if they don't try.

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

Good gameplay alone is often rather drab with lack of motivation to play the game.

 

[Paper Mario]

I think the coffee system is less broken than the way beans are since BIS, where you can just eat them to instantly gain the stat boost. In SSS, each coffee does give a bigger stat boost but also requires more beans, some requiring more than one type of bean. And of course you have to go to the cafe every time you want to put your beans to use. Some beans could be farmed in minigames but don't most RPGs have an exploit where you can do something easy but tedious to become OP?

Granted I never really bothered with the cafe much once all the E. Gadd inventions were obtained.

 

[Time Turner]

I just don't see the point since all Mario stories just wind up being mediocre at best so no sense in bothering with what you aren't good at.

Well, they won't ever get better at it if they don't try.

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

Good gameplay alone is often rather drab with lack of motivation to play the game.

It's worked so far. Half of the main Mario games have literally been "hero saves princess from dragon" story.

 

[ArchagentEverlasting]

I just don't see the point since all Mario stories just wind up being mediocre at best so no sense in bothering with what you aren't good at.

Well, they won't ever get better at it if they don't try.

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

Good gameplay alone is often rather drab with lack of motivation to play the game.

It's worked so far. Half of the main Mario games have literally been "hero saves princess from dragon" story.

Did I say that the main series Mario games had good motivations and plot at any point?

 

[Time Turner]

I just don't see the point since all Mario stories just wind up being mediocre at best so no sense in bothering with what you aren't good at.

Well, they won't ever get better at it if they don't try.

That's rather arbitrary. Why limit the entire franchise to only having good gameplay and never a good story?

Because having a good story is never this franchise's feature, and in Mario's case, resources are focused on the gameplay and characters rather than the story. Story CAN bug down the game and it also costs resources and it's also a deliberate decision due to these two. While Mario CAN go in a new direction as we've seen in Mario + Rabbids, I don't think we're going to get an in-depth story for overall video game standards.

Good gameplay alone is often rather drab with lack of motivation to play the game.

It's worked so far. Half of the main Mario games have literally been "hero saves princess from dragon" story.

Did I say that the main series Mario games had good motivations and plot at any point?

I'm just saying that they've survived without those elements for a long while.

 

[Crackin355]

What motivates someone to play a game will differ drastically from one person to another.

 

[Ray Trace]

Good gameplay alone is often rather drab with lack of motivation to play the game.

Many of the most played games today survive mostly on good gameplay alone. Just ask any multiplayer-oriented game how they're doing, like Overwatch, Left 4 Dead 2, Team Fortress 2, Super Smash Bros. 4, Mario Kart 8, Pokemon, etc.